Was Jesus Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent during His life on Earth?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Doesn't anybody even bother to read the verse?

Only the Father knows. It doesn't say "only God" knows.
  • Jesus doesn't know
  • The angels don't know
  • The Holy Spirit doesn't know (if you hold that the holy spirit is a person)

Correct. I'm not sure why the need to alter the verse.
 

Stephen

Active member
Well you don't believe Jesus is God, so that makes sense.

It would be like me saying, Jesus died on the cross, therefore God died on the cross. God cannot die.

If you are a trinitarian, read what Jesus said:
  • Only the person of the Father knows.
  • the person of the son doesn't know
  • the person of the holy spirit doesn't know
If you are going to explain why the person of the son doesn't know, you also need to explain why the person of the Holy Spirit doesn't know either.
 
The reason its problematic is because you believe Jesus didn't know according to His DIVINE nature. We bot agree Jesus didn't know according to His HUMAN nature.

Still no. You'll have problems explaining to those who do not hold the trinity doctrine. Read the verse "as is". Don't touch it.

Can't the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit decide among themselves who will get the last say on when the hour is? If they agreed that the Father will get that decision as to when, will it somehow diminish their divine powers? Some will say, "Oh, he is no longer omniscient because they don't know!" They are still all-knowing, it's just that they chose the Father to have that authority and respect that boundary.

It's the same thing with the Word when they decided among themselves that he will become flesh and to die on the cross. Some will say, "Oh, he is no longer God for he is flesh and can die!" The Word is still God forevermore even if he becomes flesh and dies like us.
 

eternomade

Active member
Still no. You'll have problems explaining to those who do not hold the trinity doctrine. Read the verse "as is". Don't touch it.

Can't the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit decide among themselves who will get the last say on when the hour is? If they agreed that the Father will get that decision as to when, will it somehow diminish their divine powers? Some will say, "Oh, he is no longer omniscient because they don't know!" They are still all-knowing, it's just that they chose the Father to have that authority and respect that boundary.

It's the same thing with the Word when they decided among themselves that he will become flesh and to die on the cross. Some will say, "Oh, he is no longer God for he is flesh and can die!" The Word is still God forevermore even if he becomes flesh and dies like us.
You hit the nail on the head. If Jesus doesn't know He is not omniscient. You can't say "Read the verse "as is". Don't touch it." otherwise I could say the same thing to you about Deut 6:4. We take the Bible as a whole. If Jesus is God He is omniscient. You south tritheist.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Still no. You'll have problems explaining to those who do not hold the trinity doctrine. Read the verse "as is". Don't touch it.

Can't the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit decide among themselves who will get the last say on when the hour is? If they agreed that the Father will get that decision as to when, will it somehow diminish their divine powers? Some will say, "Oh, he is no longer omniscient because they don't know!" They are still all-knowing, it's just that they chose the Father to have that authority and respect that boundary.

It's the same thing with the Word when they decided among themselves that he will become flesh and to die on the cross. Some will say, "Oh, he is no longer God for he is flesh and can die!" The Word is still God forevermore even if he becomes flesh and dies like us.
God never became flesh God always has been SPirit and never has changed, it is that man is the temple of God who is SPirit. See Matt 3:16, God comes into man from the outward inward, incarnate.
 

rod.ney

Active member
God never became flesh God always has been SPirit and never has changed, it is that man is the temple of God who is SPirit. See Matt 3:16, God comes into man from the outward inward, incarnate.
Well Gary, if you READ John 1:1+14 ( GOD's inspired scriptures ), it CLEARLY says AS IS " The Word was God + the Word BECAME Flesh "! So yes indeed the WORD ( Divine Spirit - God ) in John 1:1 Became God in the Flesh ( or God-Man ) as Jesus Christ in John 1:14! Case closed on Gary's say so ( Man's word ) that the real Jesus Christ is just a man and not God the former Word ( of John 1:1 ) also! Even God the Father calls Him ( Only Jesus Christ and NO other son of GOD, Gary ) " O God " in Hebrews 1:8! Even the OT calls Him ( Jesus Christ, the child to be born in John 1:14 ) " Mighty God " in Isaiah 9:6! Gary remains 100% rebuked By those AS IS posted scriptures ( God's inspired say so ) in this scriptural response as per 2 Tim.3:16!
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Well Gary, if you READ John 1:1+14 ( GOD's inspired scriptures ), it CLEARLY says AS IS " The Word was God + the Word BECAME Flesh "! So yes indeed the WORD ( Divine Spirit - God ) in John 1:1 Became God in the Flesh ( or God-Man ) as Jesus Christ in John 1:14! Case closed on Gary's say so ( Man's word ) that the real Jesus Christ is just a man and not God the former Word ( of John 1:1 ) also! Even God the Father calls Him ( Only Jesus Christ and NO other son of GOD, Gary ) " O God " in Hebrews 1:8! Even the OT calls Him ( Jesus Christ, the child to be born in John 1:14 ) " Mighty God " in Isaiah 9:6! Gary remains 100% rebuked By those AS IS posted scriptures ( God's inspired say so ) in this scriptural response as per 2 Tim.3:16!
Well rodney if you receieve from God that what Jesus did in Matt 3:16 when God opened all of His heaven to that man -- only then will you know that what God put into Jesus. Until then you cant have a clue who or what God is about.

God was the same in Adam, Abraham, Moses, Mary, Jesus, 120, as He is in us all who has received Him. But it is obvious that you dont have a clue what it is these received form God yourself. You cant know Him at all least He is come to you as He did these.

You have changed the God who always has been Spirit and made your god in your own image of a man is all. Your god is created of yourself.
 
Last edited:

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Mark 13:32
32 “But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

If Jesus is God(which He is) than how can He not know the day and hour? Some will cite Kenosis in Philippians 2:7-8:
AV Jn 5:30-31 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. 31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

We need to agree the Father and Jesus have separate wills, per Jesus' testimony. Once we accept that, Jesus is not the one making the decision to send Jesus back to earth. GOD "only the Father" does. The main reason Jesus does NOT know is, GOD the Father has not made that decision, in the Father's will yet. Once the Father makes that decision, the whole GODhead knows.
7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
The Bible teaches that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever(Hebrews 13:8) and I would argue that Jesus was Omniscient during His time on Earth, even in this verse. If Jesus did not have these attributes, what made Him God?
Jesus' Version: AV Jn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Paul's Version: AV Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

AV Mt 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

"If Jesus did not have these attributes, what made Him God?", The lack of understanding of what is GOD, to our limited understanding of singleness of our own creature being/soul, is part of all our issues here.

AV Jn 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

There is Truth here, that is understood and applied by those who are "the true worshippers".

AV Jn 14:12-15 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do [it]. 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

The interesting part of this, Jesus was our example, which means what Jesus did and/or could do, we can as well !!!

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

101G

Active member
“The Lord Jesus Return Date”

Addressing the OP, good topic, but without Knowledge. no, no Kenosis here, as in Philippians 2:7-8.

One of of the Major question concerning our Lord's deity, is his omniscient. "How come our Lord Jesus don't know his return date?". only the father knows. again the beauty of "diversity" of the "ECHAD" of GOD in flesh. the answer is in the "will" of God. yes, God have a "will", a plan. and it is clearly seen in the Godly principle of Matthew 6:3. listen, "But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth". how can one do something themselves without knowing about it. is not your right hand, and left hand is a part of you, YES, and YOU know which each hand is doing, correct. but the answer is this, because you "will" it not to known.

sound strange?, NO, I have done it. when someone come to me in confidentiality, I wills myself not to remember as to what have been said. but lets see how God do it. scripture, Jeremiah 31:34 "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more". see that?, "and I (will) remember their sin no more". HOLD IT, how can almighty, all knowing God, (and here not in G2758 κενόω kenoo), not remember?. Answer, it's an act of the will. he wills "not" to remember. just as he said in Matthew 6:3b "let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth", "let" is an act of the will. so how do all of this relates to our Lord's not knowing his return date. answer, Revelation chapter 5. our Lord, Jesus is sitting on the throne. what happens?, the Spirit, (the Father, the Holy Spirit), THE ROOT, God as the ECHAD of the First, comes and takes the book out of his hand, THE "right" hand, now which hand did he take the book out of?, yes, the right hand. Remember Matthew 6:3 "But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth". by the Father, (the Holy Spirit), THE ROOT, the Ordinal First, taking the book out of his OWN "RIGHT" hand he, the Lord Jesus, the Ordinal Last, (the Son), wills not to KNOW his return DATE. because the book contain all the information of what's to come. so, only the Father, (the Holy Spirit), THE ROOT, the Ordinal First, knows because the father, (the Ordinal First), THE ROOT, took the book out of his OWN "RIGHT" hand. supportive scripture, by our Lord being in flesh and bone, and as mediator, he fulfills the DAVIDIC PROPHECY, Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. "The LORD, (THE ROOT), said unto my Lord, (THE OFFSPRING), Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool". The until is written in the book that was in the Lord's, (the Ordinal last), right hand, with the seals unbroken. So the Lord Jesus statement is true, no one knows only he who took the book, and that’s the FATHER, (the Ordinal First), THE ROOT.

Another mystery cleared up, by knowing the "ECHAD" or the "Diversity" of God in Flesh in doing his own "WILL". supportive scripture, Hebrews 10:7 "Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God." and HIS "will" be done in heaven and on earth.

so NO, no G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō')/ Kenosis was not the main FACTOR here this time, only his "WILL" to be done. the bible explain itself if we just listen. this Godly principle was given in the OT, as well as the NT,

OT, Jeremiah 31:34 "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more".

NT, Matthew 6:3 "But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth".

this is good hermeneutic of the application called NEAR and FAR.

I highly stress, one go back and understand A. the ECHAD of God, and B. the Will of God.

again a Good topic,

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
“The Lord Jesus Return Date”

Addressing the OP, good topic, but without Knowledge. no, no Kenosis here, as in Philippians 2:7-8.

One of of the Major question concerning our Lord's deity, is his omniscient. "How come our Lord Jesus don't know his return date?". only the father knows. again the beauty of "diversity" of the "ECHAD" of GOD in flesh. the answer is in the "will" of God. yes, God have a "will", a plan. and it is clearly seen in the Godly principle of Matthew 6:3. listen, "But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth". how can one do something themselves without knowing about it. is not your right hand, and left hand is a part of you, YES, and YOU know which each hand is doing, correct. but the answer is this, because you "will" it not to known.
Actually all who has received from God that what Jesus received from God knows the return of Christ. Christ in you, you anointed of God is His return. Cant see Him can you. 1 John 3, but when you do see Him ye shall be like Him.

You haven't seen Him to be like Him have you?
sound strange?, NO, I have done it. when someone come to me in confidentiality, I wills myself not to remember as to what have been said. but lets see how God do it. scripture, Jeremiah 31:34 "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more". see that?, "and I (will) remember their sin no more". HOLD IT, how can almighty, all knowing God, (and here not in G2758 κενόω kenoo), not remember?. Answer, it's an act of the will. he wills "not" to remember. just as he said in Matthew 6:3b "let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth", "let" is an act of the will. so how do all of this relates to our Lord's not knowing his return date. answer, Revelation chapter 5. our Lord, Jesus is sitting on the throne. what happens?, the Spirit, (the Father, the Holy Spirit), THE ROOT, God as the ECHAD of the First, comes and takes the book out of his hand, THE "right" hand, now which hand did he take the book out of?, yes, the right hand. Remember Matthew 6:3 "But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth". by the Father, (the Holy Spirit), THE ROOT, the Ordinal First, taking the book out of his OWN "RIGHT" hand he, the Lord Jesus, the Ordinal Last, (the Son), wills not to KNOW his return DATE. because the book contain all the information of what's to come. so, only the Father, (the Holy Spirit), THE ROOT, the Ordinal First, knows because the father, (the Ordinal First), THE ROOT, took the book out of his OWN "RIGHT" hand. supportive scripture, by our Lord being in flesh and bone, and as mediator, he fulfills the DAVIDIC PROPHECY, Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. "The LORD, (THE ROOT), said unto my Lord, (THE OFFSPRING), Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool". The until is written in the book that was in the Lord's, (the Ordinal last), right hand, with the seals unbroken. So the Lord Jesus statement is true, no one knows only he who took the book, and that’s the FATHER, (the Ordinal First), THE ROOT.
Everyone who has received from God that what Jesus received from Him, are like Him no different at all.

if you are not like Him then you do not follow the way of Jesus to be like Him at all.
Another mystery cleared up, by knowing the "ECHAD" or the "Diversity" of God in Flesh in doing his own "WILL". supportive scripture, Hebrews 10:7 "Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God." and HIS "will" be done in heaven and on earth.
All do His will who has received from Him as Jesus did.
so NO, no G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō')/ Kenosis was not the main FACTOR here this time, only his "WILL" to be done. the bible explain itself if we just listen. this Godly principle was given in the OT, as well as the NT,r
Listening to it then you will be like Him, perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect, and you will walk as He walks in His same light. Not many follow the instructions in it do you?
OT, Jeremiah 31:34 "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more".
He cant for we who are born of Him it is impossible to be in sin. 1 John 3:9.
NT, Matthew 6:3 "But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth".

this is good hermeneutic of the application called NEAR and FAR.

I highly stress, one go back and understand A. the ECHAD of God, and B. the Will of God.

again a Good topic,

PICJAG, 101G.
Better yet receieve form God that what Jesus did in Matt 3:16, what Adam did in Gen 3:22, what Abraham did, what Moses did, what Mary did, what 120 did, in yourself.

There is no other way to know God at all least you have received the same as these did. You are hung up in seminary. .
 

101G

Active member
Actually all who has received from God that what Jesus received from God knows the return of Christ. Christ in you, you anointed of God is His return. Cant see Him can you. 1 John 3, but when you do see Him ye shall be like Him.

You haven't seen Him to be like Him have you?
do you know the Lord Jesus Christ return DATE? ... the day the hour,

if so post it.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top