was Mary also the Spouse of God?

mica

Well-known member
balshan said:
Not the RCC their theology is lies because their leaders lie and have lied throughout the centuries. Liars cannot be trusted.
That is your opinion.
which is in agreement with scripture.

I do not agree.
you don't agree with scripture, you do agree with false teachers.

It is my opinion that you are the one who has fallen for lies.
that's your opinion as one who believes in and follows the false teachers of a false religion.
 

Nondenom40

Super Member
yep, all the denominations

Start a thread next week on 'Peter' -- I'll be there

start a thread next week on 'priesthood' -- I'll be there

start a thread next week on 'authority in the Church' -- I'll be there

start a thread next week on the 'ECF's' -- I'll be there
So you can't post one single verse giving any details about anything i asked about right? We don't need another thread so you can dance around the fact none of these things are in the bible. If they were there and they were clear you'd be posting them. Youre not. And while i have the ecf's and read them, we don't need a thread because they aren't my standard.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
CARM acknowledges the Catholic Church as Christian.
Mmmmm, no it doesn't. Technically it is only missing one element to be classified as a cult.


Are Roman Catholics Christian?​

by Matt Slick | Dec 5, 2008 | Roman Catholicism, World Religions
Are Roman Catholics Christians? They are if they have trusted in Jesus alone for the forgiveness of their sins. However, if they believe they are saved by God’s grace and their works, then they are not saved even if they believe their works are done by God’s grace since they then deny the sufficiency of Christ’s sacrifice.
Being a Christian does not mean being a member of the Roman Catholic Church. It means being a member of the body of Christ, which is accomplished by faith and trust in Jesus alone for the forgiveness of your sins. It means you do not add your works to His work. Sincerity doesn’t forgive sins. Membership in a church doesn’t forgive sins. Doing works of penance doesn’t forgive sins. Praying to Mary doesn’t forgive sins. Forgiveness is received in the faithful trust and acceptance of Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross. You must trust Jesus, God in flesh, for the forgiveness of sins–not a man-made ritual and certainly not the catholic saints. Even though the Roman Catholic Church affirms the Trinity, the deity of Christ, and His physical resurrection, it greatly errors in its doctrine of salvation by adding works to salvation.
  • “The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them; the Second Vatican Council confirms: “The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments,” (CCC 2068)
The official Roman Catholic doctrine of salvation is that the grace of God is infused into a baby at baptism – making him/her justified before God.1 This justification can be lost through sin (venial and mortal) and must be regained by repeated participation in the many sacraments found in the Roman Catholic Church. These sacraments increase the measure of grace in the person by which he or she is enabled to do good works, which are in turn rewarded with the joy of heaven:
  • “We can, therefore, hope in the glory of heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will. In every circumstance, each one of us should hope, with the grace of God, to persevere ‘to the end’ and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God’s eternal reward for the good works accomplished with the grace of Christ,” (CCC 1821).
  • “Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification,” (CCC 2010).
No one can say whether a Roman Catholic is truly a Christian or not since we cannot know people’s hearts. However, if anyone, Catholic included, openly denies essential doctrines2, then he is not saved; and this is the problem. It appears that the Roman Catholic Church is denying the essential doctrine of justification by faith alone in Christ alone since it adds keeping the commandments to obtaining salvation (CCC 2068). It says . . .
  • “If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema,” (Canon 9, Council of Trent).
  • “If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema,” (Canon 14, Council of Trent).
  • For more on this, please see Council of Trent. Canons on Justification.
Notice that justification by faith alone is denied, and heaven is the reward for doing good works. This is the problem. The RCC does not teach the biblical doctrine of justification by faith. It teaches justification by faith and works. If you want to see more on this, go to The Roman Catholic view on justification.

What is the CARM position on Roman Catholics?​

CARM’s position is simple. If a Roman Catholic believes in the official Roman Catholic teaching on salvation, then he is not a Christian since the official RCC position is contrary to Scripture. Therefore, as a whole, Roman Catholics need to be evangelized. They need to hear the true Gospel. They need to hear that they are not made right before God by being in a church or by being baptized but by receiving Christ (John 1:12), believing that Jesus has risen from the dead (Rom. 10:9); and that justification is by faith (Rom. 5:1) and not by our deeds (Rom. 4:5). It is only true faith that results in true works (James 2) – not the other way around. Roman Catholics, like anyone else, need to trust in Jesus alone for the forgiveness of their sins and not the Catholic sacraments, not the words of the priest, not the Pope, not Mary, not the saints, not penance, not indulgences, not the rosary, etc. Jesus alone is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6).
Finally, I believe there are truly regenerate Christians in the Roman Catholic Church – truly Christians in spite of official RCC theology and in spite of the ritualistic offerings of this ancient church which has had too many hands meddling in it through the centuries–gradually moving it away from orthodoxy and into apostasy. Yes, apostasy. The Roman Catholic Church is no longer representing true Christianity.
Jesus alone saves. Jesus alone is Lord. Only Jesus’ sacrifice can cleanse us. Only by faith are we made right before God. Justification is by faith – not by anything we do.

  • Rom. 3:28-30, “For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.”
  • Rom. 4:3, “For what does the Scripture say? “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.”
  • Rom. 4:5, “But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,”
  • Rom. 5:1, “therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,”
  • Gal. 2:16, “nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified.”

References
References
1↑”Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ. It is granted us through Baptism. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who justifies us. It has for its goal the glory of God and of Christ and the gift of eternal life. It is the most excellent work of God’s mercy,” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, par. 2020).
2↑In short, the essentials are the deity of Christ, His physical resurrection, and justification by grace through faith. Related to these are the Trinity, the virgin birth, and, of course, the gospel itself. For more information on essentials, please see the Doctrine Table.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
Baloney. I can name many Catholic teachings that not only are heresy, but blasphemy as well. And UNsupported by Scripture. Come to think of it, I have done so already on here, many times.
It doesn't matter what you or I or anyone thinks. What matters is what the Church thinks for it is the pillar and foundation of the truth.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Everything Protestant is heresy.
A telling admission given that more often than not, Protestant beliefs are identical to Catholic doctrine, e.g. the abolition of the dietary laws, the profanation of the Sabbath and the Lord's feast days, the justification of adultery, etc.

It is bewildering and somewhat disturbing to constantly see Catholics openly convicting themselves with their own confessions.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
A telling admission given that more often than not, Protestant beliefs are identical to Catholic doctrine, e.g. the abolition of the dietary laws, the profanation of the Sabbath and the Lord's feast days, the justification of adultery, etc.

It is bewildering and somewhat disturbing to constantly see Catholics openly convicting themselves with their own confessions.
Then those are Catholic beliefs that Protestants accept.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Then those are Catholic beliefs that Protestants accept.
Yes! The whole ship of fools is going down to the depths of Sheol fighting over doctrines which pale in comparison to those which they agree with and are demonic in origin. Swallowing Satan's lies with gusto while engaging in backbiting Pharisaic meticulousness is the hallmark of the damned.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
Yes! The whole ship of fools is going down to the depths of Sheol fighting over doctrines which pale in comparison to those which they agree with and are demonic in origin. Swallowing Satan's lies with gusto while engaging in backbiting Pharisaic meticulousness is the hallmark of the damned.
If they have Catholic beliefs, those are true beliefs. The Protestant beliefs are as you describe above.
 

balshan

Well-known member
It doesn't matter what you or I or anyone thinks. What matters is what the Church thinks for it is the pillar and foundation of the truth.
You have failed to prove the RCC is the Church at all, it certainly is NOT the pillar and foundation of the truth. You have failed to establish that your bad tree is anything more than a bad tree.

It followed the emperors and persecuted real believers, it followed the father of lies and has lied throughout the centuries, it even lies about its true history. It is not apostolic at all, as it does not teach or act like the apostles. Its claims are false.
 
Top