pilgrim
Well-known member
The true Church was built by Jesus Christ on Peter. " And I tell you, you are Peter (rock), and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it."
was Mary also the Spouse of God?
- Thread starter 1Thess521
- Start date
Who did Peter proclaim Jesus was? why did Jesus ask that? how did Peter know the right answer to give Jesus?
Blatantly false.
In the Greek it is in the masculine gender i.e. "petros".
This rock is in the feminine, i.e. "taute te petra". Elementary Greek grammar doesn't allow words of one gender to refer to words of the opposite gender. This is the case for ALL gender specific languages.
In Spanish, "el libro" is masculine while "la pluma" is feminine. Therefore, when one is asked "damelo" i.e. "Give it to me", the masculine article (i.e. "lo") indicates that it can only be referring to the book.
Likewise, the feminine "petra" cannot refer to the masculine 'petros', but even though this has been pointed out repeatedly to Catholic apologists, they insist on ignoring this simple grammatical fact. Ignoring this fact is not a defense for their faith. It only serves to spotlight their proclivity to continue engaging in deception.
A new day
Super Member
Peter is nothing.
In bible times, building were constructed of stone. The cornerstone, was in those times the most important stone. It was the most carefully constructed stone, and if it was in any way, out of plumb or alignment no matter how minor; it was rejected by the builders. Once the cornerstone was set, it became the basis for determining every measurement in the remaining construction; everything was aligned to it. As the cornerstone of the building of the church, Jesus and His written word is our standard of measure and alignment.
Isaiah in the OT prophesied about Jesus being the cornerstone.
Isaiah 28:16-17
So this is what the Sovereign Lord says:
“See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone,
a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation;
the one who relies on it
will never be stricken with panic.
17 I will make justice the measuring line
and righteousness the plumb line;
hail will sweep away your refuge, the lie,
and water will overflow your hiding place.
Jesus quoted it
Matthew 21:42
Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes’?
Jesus is the firm foundation for our lives, if all would but trust in Him. The Rcc has built upon peter, which is something different from what God is building upon.
pilgrim
Well-known member
Jesus is the cornerstone. The Apostles and prophets are the foundation. (Eph 2:20)
they were believers in and followers of His word. the rcc/catholics are not.
1 cor 3
By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
The apostles laid the foundation which is Jesus. Your institution has laid a foundation that is flawed, it is Mary, the pope and his cronies.
Bonnie
Super Member
No, the true Church is built BY Jesus Christ on Himself, the "Rock of our salvation", the "petra", a rocky massif, not a little boulder like Peter. The "rock" used in the verse you quote is "petra", feminine, but for Peter, it is "petros," a chunk of rock, masculine.
"Petra" is also the word used here, in 1 Cor. 10:4--"English Standard Version
and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ."
The Rock Jesus would build His church upon was the "rock"--petra--of Peter's confession, that Jesus Christ is the Christ, the Son of the living God." It is NOT PETER. In fact, Scripture tells us that the church is built upon the foundation of ALL the prophets and apostles, with Jesus Christ as the Cornerstone. From Ephesians 2:
This is the church that Paul is talking about, made up of both Jews and Gentiles, no longer strangers to one another, but part of the household of God the Father.
So, your church has been very wrong for many centuries.
Bonnie
Super Member
Yes--NOT JUST PETER. So, now you are backpedaling, eh?
A new day
Super Member
Amen
pilgrim
Well-known member
The Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth. You are denying the true meaning of that passage of Scripture.
pilgrim
Well-known member
Did Jesus actually say petros or Cephas?
John 1: 41 He first found his brother Simon, and said to him, “We have found the Messiah” (which means Christ). 42 He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him, and said, “So you are Simon the son of John? You shall be called Cephas” (which means Peter).
What does Cephas mean?
And why the name change anyway?
Nondenom40
Well-known member
What did the Holy Spirit say? And would Jesus and the Holy Spirit say contradictory things? Petros isn't Peter. "This rock" is a reference to Jesus. The church is built through confessing Jesus as the Christ and placing your trust in Him. Not Peter.
pilgrim
Well-known member
What was the original language of the Book of Matthew?
Nondenom40
Well-known member
The earliest manuscript evidence is Greek. There is a claim that it was written in Hebrew and if you have that link of an extant copy in Hebrew that predates the Greek I'd like to see it. And it wasn't written in Aramaic either which is why catholics are so confused about the passage.
pilgrim
Well-known member
Around 180 Irenaeus of Lyons wrote that
Fifty years earlier Papias, bishop of Hieropolis in Asia Minor, wrote, “Matthew compiled the sayings [of the Lord] in the Aramaic language, and everyone translated them as well as he could” (Explanation of the Sayings of the Lord [cited by Eusebius in History of the Church 3:39]).
Sometime after 244 the Scripture scholar Origen wrote, “Among the four Gospels, which are the only indisputable ones in the Church of God under heaven, I have learned by tradition that the first was written by Matthew, who was once a publican, but afterwards an apostle of Jesus Christ, and it was prepared for the converts from Judaism and published in the Hebrew language” (Commentaries on Matthew [cited by Eusebius in History of the Church 6:25]).
Eusebius himself declared that “Matthew had begun by preaching to the Hebrews, and when he made up his mind to go to others too, he committed his own Gospel to writing in his native tongue [Aramaic], so that for those with whom he was no longer present the gap left by his departure was filled by what he wrote” (History of the Church 3:24 [inter 300-325]). https://www.catholic.com/qa/was-matthews-gospel-first-written-in-aramaic-or-hebrew
But your institution has proved over and over, again throughout the centuries, it is not the pillar and foundation of truth. It tells lies. It teaches false doctrines. The latest scandals show it still lies and does not even blush when it does so. Liars cannot be trusted and the father of lies is not Jesus.
John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
pilgrim
Well-known member
The Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth. Those sects outside of it do not have the truth.
Cephas is the Aramaic name. Petros is the Greek translation. The oldest manuscripts we have of the gospel narratives are all written in Koine Greek, hence the writers used Greek names, and they all clearly understood that "this rock" couldn't have referred to Peter, but necessarily must have referred to Peter's confession that Jesus was the messiah.
Moreover, the gospel writer could just as easily written "tautw tw petrw" which would have been in the masculine form and would necessarily have referred to no one other than Peter. He didn't do that though, did he? Nope.
No wonder the early church didn't want people reading the bible. smh.