Water baptism is not required for salvation, does not help salvation, or save. You must repent of that to be saved, because that is works.

So you think a person can hear the gospel, believe it and not repent? Is that your point?
Well, actually I wasn't thinking that. I was saying that based on Jesus's statement, repentance might be a requirement for receiving the Holy Spirit. However, not to be mysterious, and since you brought it up, I do believe that a person can believe and not repent. It may not happen often, but I believe it's possible.

And you think one has to audibly confess Jesus is Lord in order to be saved?
Actually, I wasn't thinking that either. I was just making the point that confessing "Jesus is Lord" seems to come before receiving the Holy Spirit. You can interpret the word confessing however you want to, I suppose.
Please stop making me guess what your point is. I really hate the way these discussions often go. No need to be mysterious.
I'm not purposely trying to make you guess anything. I'm simply pointing out what the Bible seems to indicate are requirements that come before one receives the Holy Spirit. You can interpret those verses however you wish.
 
Well, actually I wasn't thinking that. I was saying that based on Jesus's statement, repentance might be a requirement for receiving the Holy Spirit. However, not to be mysterious, and since you brought it up, I do believe that a person can believe and not repent. It may not happen often, but I believe it's possible.
How can one believe and not repent? That doesn't make any sense to me at all nor do I see evidence of such. Believing without repentance isn't faith IMO.

Ok, so what were you thinking?
I'm not purposely trying to make you guess anything. I'm simply pointing out what the Bible seems to indicate are requirements that come before one receives the Holy Spirit. You can interpret those verses however you wish.
Well, I still don't understand what point you were trying to make.
 
What is the purpose of this "gift" of speaking in tongues?
1 Cor 14 gives Several purposes: Self edification, prayer/praise unto God, as an attention getter in a meeting, and to communicate with another person who's language you don't know. Read 1 Cor 14 for details.
 
1 Cor 14 gives Several purposes: Self edification, prayer/praise unto God, as an attention getter in a meeting, and to communicate with another person who's language you don't know. Read 1 Cor 14 for details.
I've read it. I don't believe in modern day speaking in tongues. I'm sorry.

For instance you said a guy spoke in tongues and you interpreted. Yet he did not speak a language you know. I'm just not buying into this charismatic claim. Sorry.
 
True.


True. When a person speaks in tongues, it is not "invented."


No it wasn't. Still isn't.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with different tongues, as the Spirit was giving them the ability to speak out.

5 Now there were Jews residing in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together and they were bewildered, because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language. 7 They were amazed and astonished, saying, “Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born?
 
I've read it. I don't believe in modern day speaking in tongues. I'm sorry.

For instance you said a guy spoke in tongues and you interpreted. Yet he did not speak a language you know. I'm just not buying into this charismatic claim. Sorry.
Yup, I'm a liar (or a fool), and none of it exists any more. Understood.

1 Cor 13:8-10 probably involved. Maybe you believe "that Perfect" is the Biblical Canon. that's the normal rationalization.
 
Yup, I'm a liar (or a fool), and none of it exists any more. Understood.

1 Cor 13:8-10 probably involved. Maybe you believe "that Perfect" is the Biblical Canon. that's the normal rationalization.
I did not and would not call you such things.

I simply do not believe you. I'm sorry.
 
Yup, I'm a liar (or a fool), and none of it exists any more. Understood.

1 Cor 13:8-10 probably involved. Maybe you believe "that Perfect" is the Biblical Canon. that's the normal rationalization.
I am curious...How did you know what you translated was what was said if you didn't know the language? I have heard people ramble and repeat the same thing over and over in tongues and then someone translates without repeating anything over and over. That is suspicious.
 
How much obedience do you say is required for salvation?
Actually salvation is an ongoing process. Some people believe OSAS.
Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

One must be in the kingdom of God to qualify to be saved
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

So unless Peter made a mistake it seems baptism is necessary.
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Does one have to be baptized with water in order to be saved?
Ask Paul...Rom 6
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

If a person is not baptized into the death of Christ how is he raised up to walk in newness of life?
 
Actually salvation is an ongoing process. Some people believe OSAS.
Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

One must be in the kingdom of God to qualify to be saved
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

So unless Peter made a mistake it seems baptism is necessary.
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Ask Paul...Rom 6
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

If a person is not baptized into the death of Christ how is he raised up to walk in newness of life?
Baptism with water is not what makes you born again.

I'm sorry. I completely disagree with you. Baptism is our public testimony. It doesn't save us. We are saved by grace through faith and not by anything we do.
 
For Ephesians 2:8 - nothing. Just obey the call.



Yes, we are saved through dying together with Christ which is what water baptism IS and that is why it is also called an appeal to God for a good conscience.
We are saved by grace through faith. Sorry.
 
Baptism with water is not what makes you born again.

I'm sorry. I completely disagree with you. Baptism is our public testimony.

Completely unBiblical. Man made myth.


It doesn't save us.

Saved THROUGH water baptism, saved THROUGH dying with God's son.

We are saved by grace through faith and not by anything we do.

Dying with Christ is how we put our faith in him. Humans are excellent at dying. The immortal God isn't.
 
Completely unBiblical. Man made myth.




Saved THROUGH water baptism, saved THROUGH dying with God's son.



Dying with Christ is how we put our faith in him.

God does the rest.
Baptism in water symbolizes our dying with Christ and being raised to new life.

Rather than unBiblical, you just don't agree.
 
How can one believe and not repent?
Because they are two different things. For example ,the doctor tells a person if they continue smoking they may die from lung cancer. The person believes the doctor but continues to smoke anyway.
That doesn't make any sense to me at all nor do I see evidence of such.
The rich young ruler believed Jesus but did not want to change his lifestyle...Matt 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
Believing without repentance isn't faith IMO.
Faith and belief means the same thing...repentance means something different.
Well, I still don't understand what point you were trying to make.
seems very clear to me...he said.... I'm simply pointing out what the Bible seems to indicate are requirements that come before one receives the Holy Spirit.
 
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