Water baptism is not required for salvation, does not help salvation, or save. You must repent of that to be saved, because that is works.

More unBiblical bunk. You are really into man made myths aren't you?



No, I don't really care for the lies of men.
Far more biblical than that man has to submit to a ritual to be saved.

It might interest you to research the history of baptism and ritual washings among the Jews.

Or you can righteously stamp your foot and demand you are right. I'm okay with either.
 
Because they are two different things. For example ,the doctor tells a person if they continue smoking they may die from lung cancer. The person believes the doctor but continues to smoke anyway.

The rich young ruler believed Jesus but did not want to change his lifestyle...Matt 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

Faith and belief means the same thing...repentance means something different.

seems very clear to me...he said.... I'm simply pointing out what the Bible seems to indicate are requirements that come before one receives the Holy Spirit.
Well if you're looking at faith like that, I don't think you have the right understanding of what faith is. It's not head belief. The demons believe the way you're describing belief. That's not faith.
 
Baptism with water is not what makes you born again.
it is how you enter the kingdom of God... There are more you can look them up.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
I'm sorry. I completely disagree with you.
With me? I didn't write it did I?
Baptism is our public testimony.
Who wrote that?
It doesn't save us.
Peter says it does...
KJ21
The like figure to this, even baptism, doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
ERV
And that water is like baptism, which now saves you. Baptism is not the washing of dirt from the body. It is asking God for a clean conscience. It saves you because Jesus Christ was raised from death.
We are saved by grace through faith and not by anything we do.
So you are saying you are saved by grace through faith without works and faith without works is dead? Please explain what is the faith you have in Jesus. What does Jesus require you to do to endure to enter into the kingdom of God? Unless you believe you are saved outside of the kingdom of God. Are you saved outside the kingdom of God?
 
Far more biblical than that man has to submit to a ritual to be saved.

Sorry but your man made myths are not Biblical.

And it won't matter how badly you want your myths to be Biblical. They still won't be.

It might interest you to research the history of baptism and ritual washings among the Jews.

I just might know a little.

Or you can righteously stamp your foot and demand you are right. I'm okay with either.

You can always pretend.
 
Well if you're looking at faith like that, I don't think you have the right understanding of what faith is.
The fact that you admitted that you don't think, is proof that you are simply parroting what you were told.

It's not head belief. The demons believe the way you're describing belief. That's not faith.
Well if you don't believe in your head where are you believing? In your pastor's head? If you believe the rain will fall you get an umbrella, a raincoat or you get wet when it falls if you didn't act on your belief..
 
I am curious...How did you know what you translated was what was said if you didn't know the language?
I wouldn't know.

Interpretation (like Word of Wisdom, Word of Knowledge, and Prophesy, etc.) is simply a string of WORDS that the Holy Spirit puts into your mind, and you simply speak what HE gives you, and when the flow stops, you do also (hopefully)..

HOWEVER - by observation, and experience, it's my opinion is that the "interpretation" IS NOT NECESSARILY related to the utterance in Tongues at all. That's to say that the "Tongue" may sometimes just be a "Trumpet sound" as it were to get their attention for the interpretation, (which is actually a prophetic word) to come - I.e "LISTEN TO THIS PEOPLE!!!

God, of course, isn't a "One Trick Pony", and spoken instances that I'm aware of (from being with Pentecostals and Charismatics for the last 60+ years) are:

1) A Tongue is Spoken, NOT interpreted, but IS understood by one or more people in the meeting as a private message - often even in the correct regional accent for them.

2) A Tongue is spoken, understood by nobody, followed by an interpretation in the common language. (the most common)

3) A Tongue is spoken, understood by nobody, and the SAME PERSON, then spaks the Interpretation.

4) A Tongue is spoken, Understood by one or more people, and an Interpretation in the common tongue is given which matches the tongue understood by a few.

5) A Prophetic utterance in the common tongue is spoken, but is HEARD in sever different languages.

6) Once in a case of demonic oppression, the PASTOR MINISTERED deliverance the individual, while the individual's SISTER prayed in Tongues against the evil spirit that was destroying her sister with crippling FEAR, and described afterwards the sensation of "PUSHING" against the evil spirit until "Release" came, and the sister was free (Still free 15years later, last time I Spoke with her).

7) Missionaries delivering entire messages in languages they didn't know.

8) And the most common, speaking in a Tongue in private, where no interpretation is forthcoming. It's just you speaking to God.

I have heard people ramble and repeat the same thing over and over in tongues and then someone translates without repeating anything over and over. That is suspicious.
But fairly common. MY observation is that the TONGUE, and the Interpretation MAY NOT have the same content, as noted above.
The FIRST Interpretation that I was burdened to speak was from a tongues speaker just like that (that I'd written off as a phony). I learned after that to be less Judgmental.

When a "Religious paradigmatic" is dogmatic about "IT ALWAYS HAPENS THIS WAY, AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS FALSE" I've learned to just smile, and walk away.

My favorite was a "Hat trick" in Marion Ohio in the early '80s at an FGBMFI dinner meeting, where a Tongue was spoken in the meeting, and the fellow to my Left started to speak the interpretation, but I was burdened to interpret, and when he suddenly stopped speaking in mid message, started speaking what I had which was the continuation of his interpretation - until my flow of words stopped, and immediately the fellow on my Right started speaking where I'd left off, and finished the interpretation.

THAT only happened once, but I have heard of other similar instances.

In the CORINTHIAN CASE, I'm pretty sure that because the Corinthian church was a pretty "flesh driven" bunch, Paul instructed that if there's no interpretation - shut up. This simply because IF the Holy Spirit burdens a person to speak in a tongue, He's already lined up the interpreter, so the tongues speaker doesn't have to be concerned about that aspect. If one of the Corinthians started blatting in his tongue, SHOWINMG OFF, without being burdened to do so by the Spirit, there'd BE NO interpretation, and the "tongues speaker" was out of order causing confusion.
 
Baptism with water is not what makes you born again.

I'm sorry. I completely disagree with you. Baptism is our public testimony. It doesn't save us.
So you don’t trust/accept the text of the Bible. There’s no way to settle this.

But I’ll still shed light on this below:
We are saved by grace through faith and not by anything we do.
This is only halfway correct. The bolded part is what makes it a false statement, not from faith. The Bible doesn’t teach the bolded part. That’s what you think it teaches. It’s true we’re taught that we aren’t the source of our salvation, but what we’re not taught is that we aren’t saved by anything we do.

“And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
Whoever says ‘I know him’ but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him; (1 John 2:3-5)


So here, unfortunately, notice how what you wrote is found to be in opposition with the Holy Spirit via the Apostle John.

It’s never been the case in the history of mankind that the Heavenly Father has had us just sit back and do nothing while he does our part for us. We always have a part to play in fulfilling this text lest our names not be found in the book of Life at the judgement.

I’d encourage you read more.

God bless.
 
How can one believe and not repent? That doesn't make any sense to me at all nor do I see evidence of such. Believing without repentance isn't faith IMO.

Ok, so what were you thinking?
I was thinking that based on Jesus double statement in Luke 13 (vv. 3, 5), repentance might be required prior to receiving the Holy Spirit.

And I agree with you that believing without repentance isn't faith. Nevertheless, believing is still believing. I personally know people who steadfastly maintain that they believe in Jesus, but their lives show no repentance.
Well, I still don't understand what point you were trying to make.
You're looking for something that I wasn't making. What I'm trying to do is highlight the Word of God's point regarding the reception of the Holy Spirit and what it says occurs before that happens.
 
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I wouldn't know.
Then it is not an interpretation
Interpretation (like Word of Wisdom, Word of Knowledge, and Prophesy, etc.) is simply a string of WORDS that the Holy Spirit puts into your mind, and you simply speak what HE gives you, and when the flow stops, you do also (hopefully)..
Those are not interpretations
HOWEVER - by observation, and experience, it's my opinion is that the "interpretation" IS NOT NECESSARILY related to the utterance in Tongues at all.
Either way your opinion does not count as valid information.
That's to say that the "Tongue" may sometimes just be a "Trumpet sound" as it were to get their attention for the interpretation, (which is actually a prophetic word) to come - I.e "LISTEN TO THIS PEOPLE!!!
You are only making claims that you cannot support.
God, of course, isn't a "One Trick Pony", and spoken instances that I'm aware of (from being with Pentecostals and Charismatics for the last 60+ years) are:
You are not aware of anything since they are simply your opinion.
1) A Tongue is Spoken, NOT interpreted, but IS understood by one or more people in the meeting as a private message - often even in the correct regional accent for them.
Makes no sense...since the tongue is a foreign language it must first be interpreted before anyone can understand.
2) A Tongue is spoken, understood by nobody, followed by an interpretation in the common language. (the most common)
More nonsense if a foreign language is spoken and no one understands it then there cannot be an interpretation.
3) A Tongue is spoken, understood by nobody, and the SAME PERSON, then spaks the Interpretation.
Same as above. If the foreign language is not understood by no one including the speaker then it is not interpreted by the speaker since the speaker does not know what they said in the first place.
4) A Tongue is spoken, Understood by one or more people, and an Interpretation in the common tongue is given which matches the tongue understood by a few.
If people understand the foreign language then they should be able to identify the language. You are spewing nonsense.
5) A Prophetic utterance in the common tongue is spoken, but is HEARD in sever different languages.
You are making up rubbish...You are saying a person speaking English can be heard by someone as Spanish while another person is hearing German
6) Once in a case of demonic oppression, the PASTOR MINISTERED deliverance the individual, while the individual's SISTER prayed in Tongues against the evil spirit that was destroying her sister with crippling FEAR, and described afterwards the sensation of "PUSHING" against the evil spirit until "Release" came, and the sister was free (Still free 15years later, last time I Spoke with her).
So you are saying the evil spirits don't understand English?
7) Missionaries delivering entire messages in languages they didn't know.
So how do they know what they are saying?
8) And the most common, speaking in a Tongue in private, where no interpretation is forthcoming. It's just you speaking to God.
So now God does not understand English?
But fairly common. MY observation is that the TONGUE, and the Interpretation MAY NOT have the same content, as noted above.
Then it is not an interpretation...Clearly you don't know what an interpretation is.
The FIRST Interpretation that I was burdened to speak was from a tongues speaker just like that (that I'd written off as a phony). I learned after that to be less Judgmental.
So how did you know that what you said was what he said?
When a "Religious paradigmatic" is dogmatic about "IT ALWAYS HAPENS THIS WAY, AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS FALSE" I've learned to just smile, and walk away.
You are being dogmatic about how it happens are you not?
My favorite was a "Hat trick" in Marion Ohio in the early '80s at an FGBMFI dinner meeting, where a Tongue was spoken in the meeting, and the fellow to my Left started to speak the interpretation, but I was burdened to interpret, and when he suddenly stopped speaking in mid message, started speaking what I had which was the continuation of his interpretation - until my flow of words stopped, and immediately the fellow on my Right started speaking where I'd left off, and finished the interpretation.
It seem as if you had no control of the situation
THAT only happened once, but I have heard of other similar instances.

In the CORINTHIAN CASE, I'm pretty sure that because the Corinthian church was a pretty "flesh driven" bunch, Paul instructed that if there's no interpretation - shut up.
You are funny...How would one know if there is no interpretation or if the interpretation is correct?
This simply because IF the Holy Spirit burdens a person to speak in a tongue, He's already lined up the interpreter, so the tongues speaker doesn't have to be concerned about that aspect.
But how does the person speaking know if there is an interpreter or not?
If one of the Corinthians started blatting in his tongue, SHOWINMG OFF, without being burdened to do so by the Spirit, there'd BE NO interpretation, and the "tongues speaker" was out of order causing confusion.
So one can speak tongues without the HS is that correct?
 
It seem as if you had no control of the situation
long story short:

I can't PRODUCE an interpretation "at will", because spoken "Gifts" don't originate in me at all. they all come through the unction of the Holy Spirit, and I simply speak what I'm Given.

BUT I have total control, since I can always be a FOOL, say NO, and refuse to be obedient to the burden. God doesn't FORCE me to speak His words - He ALLOWS me to.

People in the Occult also speak in tongues/ and "prophesy". But it's typically not "voluntary", but compulsive. The devil FORCES people to speak - often not even in their own voice, sometimes without them even being conscious of doing it. Satan always has his counterfeits.

IF I'm obedient to the Holy Spirit, I have NO CONTROL/INPUT over what God want's me to say. It's HIS message, not mine
But how does the person speaking know if there is an interpreter or not?
Simple!!! - IF God burdens a person to speak in a tongue in a meeting, He will also burden somebody (maybe the same person) to interpret. AND He'll "hold" the meeting so that there's "Space" for the utterances. I've already given examples that you rejected.
So one can speak tongues without the HS is that correct?
ABSOLUTELY!!! I remember Sid Caesar in his "Show of shows" TV program (in the '50s) use to carry on conversations with Howie Morris in gibberish in some of his comedy routines.

Of course one CAN NOT BIBLICALLY "Speak in tongues" without the "HS", but tongues, prophesy, and interpretation can be (and are) easily faked, with a little practice.
 
long story short:

I can't PRODUCE an interpretation "at will", because spoken "Gifts" don't originate in me at all. they all come through the unction of the Holy Spirit, and I simply speak what I'm Given.
That is your claim...
BUT I have total control, since I can always be a FOOL, say NO, and refuse to be obedient to the burden. God doesn't FORCE me to speak His words - He ALLOWS me to.
Another silly claim, later in this post you claim to not have control


People in the Occult also speak in tongues/ and "prophesy".
Which could b you for all we know...
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
But it's typically not "voluntary", but compulsive.
And you know this, how?
The devil FORCES people to speak - often not even in their own voice, sometimes without them even being conscious of doing it. Satan always has his counterfeits.
You seem to know an awful lot about what the devil does.
IF I'm obedient to the Holy Spirit, I have NO CONTROL/INPUT over what God want's me to say. It's HIS message, not mine
That makes no sense , you are claiming you have no control but God controls what you say. Above you said you have total control.
Simple!!! - IF God burdens a person to speak in a tongue in a meeting, He will also burden somebody (maybe the same person) to interpret. AND He'll "hold" the meeting so that there's "Space" for the utterances. I've already given examples that you rejected.
What do you mean by God burdens? That sounds like God is pressuring someone to do something
ABSOLUTELY!!! I remember Sid Caesar in his "Show of shows" TV program (in the '50s) use to carry on conversations with Howie Morris in gibberish in some of his comedy routines.
You are being willfully ignorant. The discussion is about your fellow tongue speakers.
Of course one CAN NOT BIBLICALLY "Speak in tongues" without the "HS",
What is biblically speak in tongues? Was Sid Caesar with the HS...?
but tongues, prophesy, and interpretation can be (and are) easily faked, with a little practice.
You just proved my point..
 
What do you mean by God burdens? That sounds like God is pressuring someone to do something
Ignoring your scornful tone, in the Pentecostal genres, "Burden" is the term we generally use to mean that God, by the Holy Spirit had indicated to us to provide a ministry.

It COULD be to help somebody, to call/contact somebody, to speak to somebody, to give money to somebody, or to manifest a Gift. in Luther's case it was to restore "Salvation by FAITH" to his beloved Catholic Church.
What is biblically speak in tongues?
To speak a message in a Tongue, which is supplied to the speaker by the Holy Spirit to an audience of God's choosing.
Was Sid Caesar with the HS...?
Chuckle!!!
You just proved my point..
Your point is: 1 Cor 13:8 states that "tongues will cease", and since I say they haven't, then obviously I'm a LIAR (or a fool).
Does that cover it???
 
Ignoring your scornful tone, in the Pentecostal genres, "Burden" is the term we generally use to mean that God, by the Holy Spirit had indicated to us to provide a ministry.
So where is that in the scriptures?
It COULD be to help somebody, to call/contact somebody, to speak to somebody, to give money to somebody, or to manifest a Gift.
Don't you have a bible?
1 Thessalonians 5:14
Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
in Luther's case it was to restore "Salvation by FAITH" to his beloved Catholic Church.
Salvation is by Grace through faith so in Luther's case it is false. God has no catholic church. Gods church is on earth.
To speak a message in a Tongue, which is supplied to the speaker by the Holy Spirit to an audience of God's choosing.
Show where the bible says what you claim
Chuckle!!!
Cat got your tonhue?
Your point is: 1 Cor 13:8 states that "tongues will cease", and since I say they haven't, then obviously I'm a LIAR (or a fool).
My point is you are making claims without proof. You even posted a verse that refutes your claim and admitted to being a liar.
Does that cover it???
Actually it exposes your folly.
 
So where is that in the scriptures?

Don't you have a bible?
1 Thessalonians 5:14
Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.

Salvation is by Grace through faith so in Luther's case it is false. God has no catholic church. Gods church is on earth.

Show where the bible says what you claim

Cat got your tonhue?

My point is you are making claims without proof. You even posted a verse that refutes your claim and admitted to being a liar.

Actually it exposes your folly.
Good bye.
 
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