"We should not pray to Jesus Christ" - No Scripture teaches it.......but then Mormons affirm praying to Jesus

Fred

Well-known member
1. From the scriptures and the teachings of latter-day prophets, we know that we are to worship God the Father and pray to Him only. We should not pray to Jesus Christ. (Lesson 128, 3 Nephi 19)

2. There is no place in scripture where we are taught to pray to Jesus. (3 Nephi 19:18)
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/book-of-mormon-student-manual/chapter-43-3-nephi-18-19?lang=eng)



Contradicting what they affirmed above, the Mormons do teach the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer.
Joel 2:32
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. (KJV)


EDITED BY MOD--ONLY TWO LINKS PER POST ALLOWED FOR NON-SUPER MEMBERS, EXCEPT FOR LINKS TO CARM ARTICLES OR OTHER CARM POSTS
 
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Elijah the Tishbite

Active member
1. From the scriptures and the teachings of latter-day prophets, we know that we are to worship God the Father and pray to Him only. We should not pray to Jesus Christ. (Lesson 128, 3 Nephi 19)

2. There is no place in scripture where we are taught to pray to Jesus. (3 Nephi 19:18)
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/book-of-mormon-student-manual/chapter-43-3-nephi-18-19?lang=eng)



Contradicting what they affirmed above, the Mormons do teach the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer.
Joel 2:32
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. (KJV)

EDITED
Mormons do teach the LORD Jehovah is Jesus

Selections from Answers to Gospel Questions
Taken from the writings of Joseph Fielding Smith
Tenth President of Mormonism
A course Study for the Melchizedek Priesthood Quorums
1972-73
Lesson 6 page 39
It was Jesus who gave commandments to Adam after he was driven out of the Garden of Eden and who directed Enoch and Noah before the flood. It was Christ who named Abraham and made him that through his posterity all nations would be blessed. He, it was who called Moses to lead Isreal out of Egypt and who wrote with his fingers on the tables of stone. He had no body until he was born in Bethlehem.
 
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brotherofJared

Well-known member
No problems here. It all looks good to me. As I said, we pray according to the teachings of Jesus Christ. At no time has he or any of the apostles taught us to pray to Jesus. We pray to the Father in the name of Jesus as he taught us to pray. If you can find a scripture which directions to pray to Jesus, please, let's see it.
 

Elijah the Tishbite

Active member
No problems here. It all looks good to me. As I said, we pray according to the teachings of Jesus Christ. At no time has he or any of the apostles taught us to pray to Jesus. We pray to the Father in the name of Jesus as he taught us to pray. If you can find a scripture which directions to pray to Jesus, please, let's see it.
1 Nephi 11

24 And after he had said these words, he said unto me: Look! And I looked, and I beheld the Son of God going forth among the children of men; and I saw many fall down at his feet and worship him.

2 Nephi 25

29 And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out.

3 Nephi 11: 17

17 Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.

3 Nephi 17:

10 And they did all, both they who had been healed and they who were whole, bow down at his feet, and did worship him; and as many as could come for the multitude did kiss his feet, insomuch that they did bathe his feet with their tears.

3 Nephi 19:

18 And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and their God.
 

Fred

Well-known member
At no time has he or any of the apostles taught us to pray to Jesus.

Which is refuted by Romans 10:13.

Contradicting what they affirmed above, the Mormons do teach the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer.
Joel 2:32
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. (KJV)

Prayer; Pray: whosoever shall call on … the Lord shall be delivered, Joel 2:32.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/tg/prayer?lang=eng

Joel: God Will Not Be Mocked: Verse 32 is a reference to Jesus Christ (see Romans 10:13).
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/old-testament-student-manual-kings-malachi/chapter-7?lang=eng

The Mormons also affirm the Lord in Romans 10:13 refers to the Lord Jesus (see immediately above), and as with Joel 2:32 this passage refers to praying to Jesus.
Prayer; Pray: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord, Gen. 4:26 (21:33; Rom. 10:13; Mosiah 4:11; Ether 2:14; Moses 6:4).
See the first link.
 
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Bonnie

Super Member
1 Nephi 11

24 And after he had said these words, he said unto me: Look! And I looked, and I beheld the Son of God going forth among the children of men; and I saw many fall down at his feet and worship him.

2 Nephi 25

29 And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out.

3 Nephi 11: 17

17 Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.

3 Nephi 17:

10 And they did all, both they who had been healed and they who were whole, bow down at his feet, and did worship him; and as many as could come for the multitude did kiss his feet, insomuch that they did bathe his feet with their tears.

3 Nephi 19:

18 And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and their God.
Once again, hoist by their own petard!
 

Fred

Well-known member
Contradicting

Joel 2:32
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. (KJV)

The Mormons affirm Joel 2:32 is a prayer and it is in reference to the Lord Jesus (see post 5).

However, they also affirm that it is in reference to the Father:
Read Joel 2:32, looking for what Joel taught that can help us when we feel afraid or concerned about signs of the Second Coming.

What can we do if we are fearful or concerned about the signs and events of the last days?

What can Heavenly Father do for those who call on His name?
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/old-testament-study-guide-for-home-study-seminary-students-2015/introduction-to-joel/unit-30-day-3-joel
 
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Elijah the Tishbite

Active member
Joel 2:32
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. (KJV)

The Mormons affirm Joel 2:32 is a prayer and it is in reference to the Lord Jesus (see post 5).

However, they also affirm that it is in reference to the Father:
Read Joel 2:32, looking for what Joel taught that can help us when we feel afraid or concerned about signs of the Second Coming.

What can we do if we are fearful or concerned about the signs and events of the last days?

What can Heavenly Father do for those who call on His name?
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/old-testament-study-guide-for-home-study-seminary-students-2015/introduction-to-joel/unit-30-day-3-joel
Acts 2:14-21

Peter Preaches to the Crowd

14 Then Peter stepped forward with the eleven other apostles and shouted to the crowd, "Listen carefully, all of you, fellow Jews and residents of Jerusalem! Make no mistake about this. 15 These people are not drunk, as some of you are assuming. Nine o'clock in the morning is much too early for that. 16 No, what you see was predicted long ago by the prophet Joel:

17 'In the last days,' God says,
'I will pour out my Spirit upon all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy.
Your young men will see visions,
and your old men will dream dreams.
18 In those days I will pour out my Spirit
even on my servants—men and women alike—
and they will prophesy.
19 And I will cause wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below—
blood and fire and clouds of smoke.
20 The sun will become dark,
and the moon will turn blood red
before that great and glorious day of the Lord arrives.
21 But everyone who calls on the name of the Lord
will be saved.'

Holy Bible, New Living Translation ®, copyright © 1996, 2004 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers. All rights reserved.

:) Mormons wouldn tell us Peter was wrong :)

 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
Look, I don't know what your problem is. The simple answer here, regardless of your bloviating, Jesus taught us to pray to the Father in His, Jesus' name. That's what we do.

If you feel a need to pray to Jesus, have at it. It's not a big concern,.though it seems to be for you.

For religions that can't tell the difference between one being or the other in the Godhead, it doesn't really matter who they pray to. When they pray to Jesus, they put a name to their God instead of a label like "Father" or "God". I don't see a problem there. However, understanding the Godhead as three beings, it does make a difference. We choose to follow the teachings of the New Testament to do all things, including prayer, in the name of Jesus while praying directly to the Father. When we do so, we worship both the Father and the son - both, just like you said we should. 👍

I don't know why you think you have a flagship argument here. The scriptures clearly teach the same thing we teach. Col 3:17. Not to mention the Lord's prayer that Jesus used to teach us specifically how to pray. It should not be that difficult to figure out but for some reason, you want to plant your flag on that hill. That's fine. Have a ball. This is a non-issue for us. We don't have a problem praying to Jesus as is demonstrated in the scriptures both with the Book of Mormon and in the Bible, as you pointed out with Stephen (though I wouldn't call what he did a prayer. Speaking to beings that are present is a different kind of communication. Joseph went to pray to find out which church was true. He started with a prayer, but when the Father and the Son appeared to him, he wasn't praying anymore than my communications with you would be considered a prayer or the face to face communications Moses had with God was considered a prayer, but I already said that before.)
 

Fred

Well-known member
Look, I don't know what your problem is. The simple answer here, regardless of your bloviating, Jesus taught us to pray to the Father in His, Jesus' name. That's what we do.

If you feel a need to pray to Jesus, have at it. It's not a big concern,.though it seems to be for you.

The problem is that the Mormons affirmed Jesus is to be prayed to while at other times saying He is not.

They are confused. They contradicted themselves big time. They are not of God.
What a mess they made.

Get out of their sinking ship pronto!
 

Fred

Well-known member
as you pointed out with Stephen (though I wouldn't call what he did a prayer.

Which contradicts the following:

Read Acts 7:57-60, looking for what the people did to Stephen.
What stands out to you about Stephen's prayer? (Unit 18: Day 1 Acts 6–7)
https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/new-testament-study-guide-for-home-study-seminary-students/introduction-to-acts/unit-18-day-1-acts-6-7

The stones painfully cut and bruised Stephen’s body, and he knew he was going to die. But he was not afraid, for he knew he would be with Jesus again. Courageously Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." (Acts 7:59.) (Stephen, the Martyr, May 1987)
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/1987/05/stephen-the-martyr?lang=eng



Speaking to beings that are present is a different kind of communication. Joseph went to pray to find out which church was true. He started with a prayer, but when the Father and the Son appeared to him, he wasn't praying anymore than my communications with you would be considered a prayer or the face to face communications Moses had with God was considered a prayer, but I already said that before.)

The vision took place in the city (Acts 7:58), while the prayer took place later on outside the city (Acts 7:59-60).
 

Elijah the Tishbite

Active member
Look, I don't know what your problem is. The simple answer here, regardless of your bloviating, Jesus taught us to pray to the Father in His, Jesus' name. That's what we do.

If you feel a need to pray to Jesus, have at it. It's not a big concern,.though it seems to be for you.

For religions that can't tell the difference between one being or the other in the Godhead, it doesn't really matter who they pray to. When they pray to Jesus, they put a name to their God instead of a label like "Father" or "God". I don't see a problem there. However, understanding the Godhead as three beings, it does make a difference. We choose to follow the teachings of the New Testament to do all things, including prayer, in the name of Jesus while praying directly to the Father. When we do so, we worship both the Father and the son - both, just like you said we should. 👍

I don't know why you think you have a flagship argument here. The scriptures clearly teach the same thing we teach. Col 3:17. Not to mention the Lord's prayer that Jesus used to teach us specifically how to pray. It should not be that difficult to figure out but for some reason, you want to plant your flag on that hill. That's fine. Have a ball. This is a non-issue for us. We don't have a problem praying to Jesus as is demonstrated in the scriptures both with the Book of Mormon and in the Bible, as you pointed out with Stephen (though I wouldn't call what he did a prayer. Speaking to beings that are present is a different kind of communication. Joseph went to pray to find out which church was true. He started with a prayer, but when the Father and the Son appeared to him, he wasn't praying anymore than my communications with you would be considered a prayer or the face to face communications Moses had with God was considered a prayer, but I already said that before.)
:)Since Mormonism is a man made religion it's followers seem confused :)

Our Relationship with the Lord

BRUCE R. MCCONKIE

Now, it is no secret that many false and vain and foolish things are being taught in the sectarian world and even among us about our need to gain a special relationship with the Lord Jesus. I shall summarize the true doctrine in this field and invite erring teachers and beguiled students to repent and believe the accepted gospel verities as I shall set them forth.

We worship the Father and him only and no one else. We do not worship the Son, and we do not worship the Holy Ghost.

 

Richard7

Well-known member
The problem is that the Mormons affirmed Jesus is to be prayed to while at other times saying He is not.

They are confused. They contradicted themselves big time. They are not of God.
What a mess they made.

Get out of their sinking ship pronto!
You do error and won't admit it.... Name the LDS who claim such a thing?

In 3 Nephi 19:16–30, however, we read that, when Jesus was in their immediate presence, his disciples prayed directly to him. Perhaps the key to this unusual behavior is found in verse 22, where Jesus explains that “they pray unto me because I am with them.” Jesus made this comment while praying to the Father for the welfare of his disciples.

Apparently, on that occasion, while he was in their presence, praying to him was acceptable. After he left them, however, the Nephites continued the pattern of praying to the Father in Jesus’ name, as we are directed to do also. (See 3 Ne. 20:30–31; 3 Ne. 27:2, 28–29.)

LDS.org
 

Richard7

Well-known member
:)Since Mormonism is a man made religion it's followers seem confused :)

Our Relationship with the Lord

BRUCE R. MCCONKIE

Now, it is no secret that many false and vain and foolish things are being taught in the sectarian world and even among us about our need to gain a special relationship with the Lord Jesus. I shall summarize the true doctrine in this field and invite erring teachers and beguiled students to repent and believe the accepted gospel verities as I shall set them forth.

We worship the Father and him only and no one else. We do not worship the Son, and we do not worship the Holy Ghost.

Yep, as followers we should be careful, we are given much responsibility and part of that is to not go beyond what we teach as doctrine...
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
The problem is that the Mormons affirmed Jesus is to be prayed to while at other times saying He is not.
Like I said, that may be a problem for you but it isn't for us. We follow the teachings of Jesus Christ who taught us to pray to God our Father, later, by the apostles confirmed to pray to the Father in Jesus' name. That's what we do. We also, on occasion can pray to Jesus directly as did Stephen or the Americans when Jesus visted then. I would say that being in the presence of Jesus would call for such worship.
They are confused.
I don't think so.
They contradicted themselves big time
Yeah. I don't think so on that point either.
They are not of God.
What a mess they made.

Get out of their sinking ship pronto!
LOL.
 

Fred

Well-known member
Prayer to Jesus is also taught by the Mormons in Joel 2:32 and Romans 10:13.

Mormons have another dilemma, but this time it is with 2 Corinthians 12:8 in that Paul prayed to the Lord Jesus.

2 Corinthians 12:7-10
(7) And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
(8) For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
(9) And he said to me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
(10) Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. (KJV)

New Testament Study Guide for Home-Study Seminary Students: Notice how many times Paul prayed to have this thorn in the flesh removed. (The word thrice [verse 8] means three times.)...
You may want to mark words or phrases in 2 Corinthians 12:9–10 that teach the following truths: The grace of Jesus Christ is sufficient to strengthen us in our weaknesses. The Lord does not always remove our challenges, but He will strengthen us as we endure them faithfully...
2. Answer two or all of the following questions in your scripture study journal:
a. What does it mean to you that the Savior's grace "is sufficient" (2 Corinthians 12:9) to strengthen you in your weakness? (Unit 24: Day 2, 2 Corinthians 10–13)
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/new-testament-study-guide-for-home-study-seminary-students/introduction-to-2-corinthians/unit-24-day-2-2-corinthians-10-13?lang=eng
 
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Fred

Well-known member
Revelation 22:20
He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (KJV)

New Testament Seminary Student Study Guide:
D. “Come, Lord Jesus”
Read Revelation 22:20. Think of what you have learned during your study of the New Testament and write your testimony of Jesus. Include why you would join in John's prayer for Jesus to come. (Revelation 21–22, The Earth Becomes a Celestial World)
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/new-testament-student-study-guide/the-revelation-of-saint-john-the-divine/revelation-21-22?lang=eng


Why would a Mormon "join in John's prayer for Jesus to come" if they are only to pray to the Father?


Missionary Preparation Student Manual: We always pray to our Father in Heaven, and to him alone. Our prayers are rendered in the name of the Son and communicated by the power of the Holy Ghost. We do not pray to the Savior or to anyone else. To do so would be disrespectful of Heavenly Father and an indication that we do not properly understand the relationship of the members of the Godhead. (Chapter 5, We Learn to Teach “by Study and Also by Faith,” Part 1)
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/missionary-preparation-student-manual/chapter-5-we-learn-to-teach-by-study-and-also-by-faith-part-1?lang=eng
 
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