We will be on this Earth for the tribulation

Timtofly

Member
This is an argument from silence which is fallacious. However, the verses mentioning the trials come on ALL the Earth, and ALL man being affected kinda do say that Christians will be involved.
Actually it is not, because many here nitpick the wording in Greek, and if it don't say something then you cannot even use a thought. If you do not hold to a hyperliteral interpretation like they do, then you are wrong. Jesus addressed the disciples separately from the general public, so if something is missing from the general audience it was not for that audience. None of those people on the Mount of Olives would see the Second Coming. None of the 1st century church saw the Second Coming. If you claim they did, you are arguing from silence. So nothing in the Olivet Discourse would apply to any one at all. They are all dead. Do you think it applies to any future people? If you think it applies to only the church, you are also arguing from silence, because Jesus did not claim that either.

Calling silence either negatively or positively is the same thing. No, only sheep are being addressed. You will have to figure out what sheep are compared to all Scripture on sheep.

Are you a Christian based on works?
 

Timtofly

Member
I think presuppositions color our take on passages... I focus on time texts and apocalyptic language. You focus on literalism and a future fulfillment...
So why did not someone in 80AD let any one know all had been fulfilled? Why were they still arguing over who Jesus even was for several hundred years, much less He returned? Would not a Second Coming put to rest all the misunderstanding? Amil are the original date setters, because after the first 1000, they had to change to some indefinite time. The soon return was always imminent, not some future date.
 
Plain reading doesn't work with apocalyptic language... They will see the Son of Man arriving on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Does this mean there are clouds in Heaven?
Actually, plain reading works just fine with "apocalyptic language." I'm sure you are aware that "heaven(s)" can mean the sky, space where the stars and planets are, or God's dwelling place. So with clouds being mentioned, I would go with the sky.
Plain reading can go both ways... Why don't you accept the plain reading of these verses?

34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. (Not some distant Generation, Not that [future] Generation)

1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants[a] the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, (Soon to take place, not 2000+ years)

I think presuppositions color our take on passages... I focus on time texts and apocalyptic language. You focus on literalism and a future fulfillment...
Yes, the events described regarding the seven churches and regions has already occurred and did happen "soon" as the verse mentions. The historical records shows this. Perhaps you forget about Revelation 4:1 "...Come up here, and I will show you what must take place AFTER this." We are now speaking of a completely different time.
 
Actually it is not, because many here nitpick the wording in Greek, and if it don't say something then you cannot even use a thought. If you do not hold to a hyperliteral interpretation like they do, then you are wrong. Jesus addressed the disciples separately from the general public, so if something is missing from the general audience it was not for that audience. None of those people on the Mount of Olives would see the Second Coming. None of the 1st century church saw the Second Coming. If you claim they did, you are arguing from silence. So nothing in the Olivet Discourse would apply to any one at all. They are all dead. Do you think it applies to any future people? If you think it applies to only the church, you are also arguing from silence, because Jesus did not claim that either.

Calling silence either negatively or positively is the same thing. No, only sheep are being addressed. You will have to figure out what sheep are compared to all Scripture on sheep.

Are you a Christian based on works?
I am not a Christian based on works. As I have said, I believe the tribulation will come on the entire world and all the people of the world will be affected as the Bible states.
 

Yodas_Prodigy

Active member
So why did not someone in 80AD let any one know all had been fulfilled? Why were they still arguing over who Jesus even was for several hundred years, much less He returned? Would not a Second Coming put to rest all the misunderstanding? Amil are the original date setters, because after the first 1000, they had to change to some indefinite time. The soon return was always imminent, not some future date.

Why did Paul have to write his letters after spending years with people? People forget... Not all People were privy to all the information... They didn't have the Internet back then...

Both Amil and Historic Pre-mil flourished at the same time 1900 years ago...
 

Yodas_Prodigy

Active member
With all do respect, you have to realize that these are quite some interpretational gymnastics to arrive at your conclusion. What happened to a plain reading and interpretation of the text? You are adding undue symbolism where it is not needed. Sure, clouds can represent God's judgment in the OT. But they can also be those white puffs of moisture in the sky as well. Even if you want the verse to say all the tribes of the dirt, that still implies the entire world. This reminds me of Revelation where it is said to not add or subtract anything from the prophecies. Also in Revelation and throughout the Bible, when symbolism is to be had, it is stated so and then usually an angel will explain the symbolism to the writer. If you have to add your own symbolism and alternative meanings to the plain text to arrive at the conclusion you want, that is not how I operate here.

Here's another thought... When the sun and the moon no longer give off their light, it has been offered by Dispies that the world is covered by smoke or clouds. The plain meaning of the sun and the moon not giving off their light is just that. If the sun and the moon light are blocked by clouds, they are still giving off their light.
 
Why did Paul have to write his letters after spending years with people? People forget... Not all People were privy to all the information... They didn't have the Internet back then...

Both Amil and Historic Pre-mil flourished at the same time 1900 years ago...
That's amusing. We had already discussed that all the tribes of the Earth would see the sign of the Son of Man. Even if you want to say it was just all the tribes of Israel, then they all forgot that they all saw the sign? Laughable.
 
Here's another thought... When the sun and the moon no longer give off their light, it has been offered by Dispies that the world is covered by smoke or clouds. The plain meaning of the sun and the moon not giving off their light is just that. If the sun and the moon light are blocked by clouds, they are still giving off their light.
Wait a minute. Are you just skipping over what I said about Revelation 4:1 and the clouds? Don't have an answer to that?
 

Timtofly

Member
I am not a Christian based on works. As I have said, I believe the tribulation will come on the entire world and all the people of the world will be affected as the Bible states.
John in Revelation also states that God on the throne, and the Lamb come after tribulation and prior to unprecedented tribulation. This is the final harvest, and the Lord of the harvest will remove the church and gather the harvest Himself. The church is the Steward being removed. The harvest is based on works. The church cannot be harvested. The church is a harvester. She will be taken out, and the harlot will be destroyed.
 

Timtofly

Member
Why did Paul have to write his letters after spending years with people? People forget... Not all People were privy to all the information... They didn't have the Internet back then...

Both Amil and Historic Pre-mil flourished at the same time 1900 years ago...
It is a sad thing when the internet replaced the Holy Spirit. They had the Holy Spirit.
 

Timtofly

Member
Here's another thought... When the sun and the moon no longer give off their light, it has been offered by Dispies that the world is covered by smoke or clouds. The plain meaning of the sun and the moon not giving off their light is just that. If the sun and the moon light are blocked by clouds, they are still giving off their light.
Here is another thought from Genesis 1. They are literally two great lights. A star and a satellite do not exist. God can turn on and turn off these two great lights
 

Timtofly

Member
Lots of people have Holy Spirit, yet disagree on secondary doctrine... You must be a Charismatic... They say similar things...
Many people have emotional connections, that an internet can enhance. That should not be considered the Holy Spirit. Pentecostals have issues in that regard, without discernment between emotion and the Holy Spirit.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
As simple as that. I hope you are prepared to some degree. God will protect his faithful.
The Church Will Be Present On Earth During The Great Tribulation, And Will Witness The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ, As Luke Clearly Teaches Below, A (Fact) :)

Luke 21:25-28KJV

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
Agreed. I will try and not get you dive too deep down the rabbit hole here but would you agree that Daniel has been essentially fulfilled already?

Well, I can do a light breeze through if you'd like. Especially if you want to make a a closing statement that directly contradicts my position. ;)
Gods words speak very clear, the Abomination that makes desolate and the Antichrist Of Daniel seen below, will be present on earth until the (Consummation) "The End", a (Future Event) Unfulfilled!

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

the ultimate end :
FINISH

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
 
Top