Well meant offer?

Sethproton

Well-known member
Where does scripture call the gospel an “ offer “

????
Use whatever word you like, the Gospel is that Christ died for sin to win salvation for all who will believe. Surely you do not teach that you were saved at the cross before you existed? Or that God did not call you to believe?
Like we mention often here Isaiah 55:1 "Come and drink" This is an offer, with a requirement. If you want to drink, you must come.
That is salvation.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Was Christ's intent to save all yes or no? He died for all right? Why do some go lost?

Your saviour is a failure. Matthew says HE WILL save His people from their sins but apparently does not. Your will is just to powerful for Him to overcome. I am sure He trys His best though
You are making an assumption that you cann not prove. It is a pillar of Calvinist thought but is not in the Bible.
You assume that you were saved at the cross before you were born, before you believed.

The Bible describes His intent at the cross. Two things stand out
1. He paid the sin debt
2. He soothed God's anger to make a way for us to approach God
 

eternomade

Well-known member
Yes you are right, the Bible as I see it is conditional. Without faith you cannot be saved.
One way it states it is "Without faith it is impossible to please God" Salvation is for those with whom God is pleased.
I am not sure we agree. I believe that faith from man is conditional, but faith from God is unconditional.

Therefore, if one muster's up their own faith to believe(whatever it is they believe) this would be a conditional faith, or one that does not save.

You last line I strongly disagree with your interpretation. God does not look to see who pleases Him. That is why it's unconditional. If God looked to see who pleased Him, all would go to hell.

Matthew 7 enforces this idea:

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

I don't think we agree on who God is or what He did. I do have a queswtion about this passage though.

Why is it that God was displeased with man?

I believe it's because this man put His faith in a false gospel. His faith was not granted by God. He was like Saul as a Pharisee. He knew more about God than anyone else, did more works than anyone else yet God still said "depart from me".
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
I am not sure we agree. I believe that faith from man is conditional, but faith from God is unconditional.

Therefore, if one muster's up their own faith to believe(whatever it is they believe) this would be a conditional faith, or one that does not save.

You last line I strongly disagree with your interpretation. God does not look to see who pleases Him. That is why it's unconditional. If God looked to see who pleased Him, all would go to hell.

Matthew 7 enforces this idea:

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

I don't think we agree on who God is or what He did. I do have a queswtion about this passage though.

Why is it that God was displeased with man?

I believe it's because this man put His faith in a false gospel. His faith was not granted by God. He was like Saul as a Pharisee. He knew more about God than anyone else, did more works than anyone else yet God still said "depart from me".
My opinion is that you skimmed what I wrote to you despite it being very short. I say that because your responses don't intellectually follow what you read in my post.
I will explain a Biblical truth about faith, see if any of it makes sense to you
There are at least 4 ways the word/concept of faith is used in the Bible
1. The faith is the body of ideas that we believe about Jesus
2. There is a Holy Spirit fruit of faith that only those indwelt by God might get, it is for believing for something special
3. There is a faith God gives to all humans whereby they know He exists. This is a gift and operates without our effort
4. Saving faith is entrusting yourself to God. Only you can entrust yourself, and only this faith saves
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
I am not sure we agree. I believe that faith from man is conditional, but faith from God is unconditional.

Therefore, if one muster's up their own faith to believe(whatever it is they believe) this would be a conditional faith, or one that does not save.

You last line I strongly disagree with your interpretation. God does not look to see who pleases Him. That is why it's unconditional. If God looked to see who pleased Him, all would go to hell.

Matthew 7 enforces this idea:

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

I don't think we agree on who God is or what He did. I do have a queswtion about this passage though.

Why is it that God was displeased with man?

I believe it's because this man put His faith in a false gospel. His faith was not granted by God. He was like Saul as a Pharisee. He knew more about God than anyone else, did more works than anyone else yet God still said "depart from me".
Second reply to same post.
Faith pleases God. Works are never good enough to please God.
God counts faith as righteousness
 
G

guest1

Guest
Use whatever word you like, the Gospel is that Christ died for sin to win salvation for all who will believe. Surely you do not teach that you were saved at the cross before you existed? Or that God did not call you to believe?
Like we mention often here Isaiah 55:1 "Come and drink" This is an offer, with a requirement. If you want to drink, you must come.
That is salvation.
There is no offer , sales pitch seth it’s your imagination
 
G

guest1

Guest
basic English (and probably basic Greek) Come and Drink - this is a conditional offer
If you refuse to come, then you do not get to drink
Sorry the dead cannot come . You watch to many sci fi zombie flicks
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
You are making an assumption that you cann not prove. It is a pillar of Calvinist thought but is not in the Bible.
You assume that you were saved at the cross before you were born, before you believed.

The Bible describes His intent at the cross. Two things stand out
1. He paid the sin debt
2. He soothed God's anger to make a way for us to approach God
So Christ died for no one in particular at the cross. He layer down His life for His sheep whoever they are. Lol That's some God you have there
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Wait! It’s His death, His resurrection + their doing something that saved them. That’s the very definition of works.
Christ dies, and hopes for the best. Matthew was kidding. How can He save His people from their sins? He has no idea who they are. Those given to the Son by the Father to redeem? Not sure how that works with that stupid position. Maybe it's a concept
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
Christ dies, and hopes for the best. Matthew was kidding. How can He save His people from their sins? He has no idea who they are. Those given to the Son by the Father to redeem? Not sure how that works with that stupid position. Maybe it's a concept
It’s like craps. Does He roll 7 or 11 or craps?
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
So Christ died for no one in particular at the cross. He layer down His life for His sheep whoever they are. Lol That's some God you have there
You betray yourself. When you read my post and claim this is what I said, it explains how you can read the Bible and claim what you do about it
His life was laid down for us all. That is what the Bible says and it is what I say
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
You betray yourself. When you read my post and claim this is what I said, it explains how you can read the Bible and claim what you do about it
His life was laid down for us all. That is what the Bible says and it is what I say
Are all "His people"? That's is who He came to save right?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
His life was laid down for us all. That is what the Bible says and it is what I say

I highlighted one of the words, since you obviously missed it.
Who is the "us" in "us all", seth?

Rom. 8:26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness.

Does the Spirit help "everyone"?

For we do not know what to pray for as we ought,

Does "everyone" pray?

but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.

Does the Spirit intercede for "everyone"?

Rom. 8:27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

"for the saints"?
Could THAT be the definition/limitation of "us", "the saints"?

Rom. 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

"those who love God"?
Could THAT be the definition/limitation of "us", "those who love God"?
Does EVERYONE "love God"?

Rom. 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Hmmm......
What does "foreknew" mean?
Is it a passive "knowledge" of everyone who existed?
Or is it an active "choosing in advance" (BDAG)?

Is EVERYONE "conformed to the image of his Son? Or only some?
Perhaps only the "saints", only the "elect"?

Rom. 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Does everyone ride this golden chain, or only some (ie. the "elect")?
Are people free to get on or come off at each junction? Or do they continue on for the whole ride?

Rom. 8:31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?

Who is "us"?
Or has the passage already answered this for us?

Rom. 8:32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?

Who is the "us"?
Does God give EVERYONE "all things"?

Rom. 8:33 Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.

That must be who the "us" is.... "God's elect".
Not, "everyone".

This passage is about
"the saints";
"those who love God";
"God's elect".

Not "everyone".



Or.................


.... you could just quote 1/4 of a verse, WITHOUT any "context", just "gave him up for us all", and ignore the word, "us".
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
I highlighted one of the words, since you obviously missed it.
Who is the "us" in "us all", seth?

Rom. 8:26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness.

Does the Spirit help "everyone"?

For we do not know what to pray for as we ought,

Does "everyone" pray?

but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.

Does the Spirit intercede for "everyone"?

Rom. 8:27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

"for the saints"?
Could THAT be the definition/limitation of "us", "the saints"?

Rom. 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

"those who love God"?
Could THAT be the definition/limitation of "us", "those who love God"?
Does EVERYONE "love God"?

Rom. 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Hmmm......
What does "foreknew" mean?
Is it a passive "knowledge" of everyone who existed?
Or is it an active "choosing in advance" (BDAG)?

Is EVERYONE "conformed to the image of his Son? Or only some?
Perhaps only the "saints", only the "elect"?

Rom. 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Does everyone ride this golden chain, or only some (ie. the "elect")?
Are people free to get on or come off at each junction? Or do they continue on for the whole ride?

Rom. 8:31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?

Who is "us"?
Or has the passage already answered this for us?

Rom. 8:32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?

Who is the "us"?
Does God give EVERYONE "all things"?

Rom. 8:33 Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.

That must be who the "us" is.... "God's elect".
Not, "everyone".

This passage is about
"the saints";
"those who love God";.
"God's elect".

Not "everyone".



Or.................


.... you could just quote 1/4 of a verse, WITHOUT any "context", just "gave him up for us all", and ignore the word, "us".
Your random shotgun approach to interpretation does not produce much of value.
You should learn how to keep in context and on track with ideas
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Did not the angels say good news to all men?

Since you refuse to ever quote Scripture to support your bogus teachings, we may never know.

Luke 2:9 And an angel of the Lord suddenly stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them; and they were terribly frightened. 10 But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people;

What does "all the people" mean, here?
Does it mean, "all the INDIVIDUALS"?
Or does it mean, "all the GROUPS of people"?

This is not the same as "all men" ("pantes anthropoi"), it uses the term "laos" ("people"), which is a more generalized term.

Now, we can either simply ASSUME a particular meaning (which just happens to match our theology), as the non-Calvinists do, or we can look at the CONTEXT of the passage to see if it gives any clue as to the meaning.

Luke 2:11 for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. 12 “This will be a sign for you: you will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.” 13 And suddenly there appeared with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying, 14 “Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace among men with whom He is pleased.”

Is God pleased with "every single individual"?
Certainly not.
 
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