We're Baaack!

treeplanter

Well-known member
🤔
😱🙄🤣
As long as you're not willing to recognize your own beliefs as being invalid, and based on ignorance of what Jesus is offering, such statements simply demonstrate that you really have no idea what you're talking about.

It's written in Proverbs 3 that we're not to lean on our own understanding, but to trust in YHVH with all our heart.

Furthermore, Jesus was quite clear that unless we deny ourselves and pick up our cross, we cannot be his disciple.

So, as you're continuing to choose your own understanding, and refuse to deny yourself, and refuse to pick up your cross, you really don't grasp what truth is, or how to live.
As long as you continue to choose His understanding and deny your own better judgement out of fear of what He might do to you, you cannot and never will grasp what truth is, Steve

It is my fervent hope for you that you learn to let go of the childish fairy tale which you cling to and start to live for yourself and your fellow man


In the meantime, answer YES to each of the following or admit that I have NOT misrepresented you

Would you drown a baby?
Yes or no, Steve

Do you think it's OK for a human being to own another human being as a piece of property?
Yes or no, Steve

Do you think I should be put to death for not believing in your god?
Yes or no, Steve

Would you hold someone responsible for somebody else's actions?
Yes or no, Steve

Would you eternally punish your own flesh and blood for truly and sincerely believing your actions to be immoral?
Yes or no, Steve
 

SteveB

Well-known member
I can't become aware of something that isn't true. If you think I've misrepresented you in some way, then give an example.
Well, if you're not able to read then I'm just going to ignore all future claims of my misrepresenting anyone.
So if this is a game you really need to play, you're going to lose, regardless.

Off-topic preaching.
Considering this is my OP, you went off topic when you decided to refuse to read the books I gave you the list for.



Of course the truth matters. That's why you should be more truthful when making claims about what others have said to you.
There's only one way to know truth.
You have to do what Jesus said.

You're not going to learn anything by refusing to do what Jesus said to do.


I don't believe that. You're strawmanning yet again.

Not my problem.
You'll just have to decide what matters more to you.

Your way of thinking or the truth.

Your way of thinking has failed you so far.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Well, if you're not able to read then I'm just going to ignore all future claims of my misrepresenting anyone. So if this is a game you really need to play, you're going to lose, regardless.
So you have no examples of me supposedly misrepresenting you?

Considering this is my OP, you went off topic when you decided to refuse to read the books I gave you the list for.
When did that happen? Where did you give me a list of books? Where did I refuse to read them?

There's only one way to know truth.
You have to do what Jesus said.
You're not going to learn anything by refusing to do what Jesus said to do.
Can you be specific about what that is? You'll find that I've either already done it, or that it cannot be done without evidence.

Not my problem.
You'll just have to decide what matters more to you.
Your constant strawmanning is very much your problem. You need to be honest and accurate when reporting what others have said to you.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
So you have no examples of me supposedly misrepresenting you?
Considering you have no examples, pretty much everything you post that claims I'm not giving you any information that shows that God is real, and knowable, as well your claims that I'm strawmanning are examples of misrepresentation.


When did that happen? Where did you give me a list of books? Where did I refuse to read them?
You're a smart person.
I find it amusing that you are so desperate to ignore the resources I've previously provided you and then play stupid.
Is this a standard practice for atheists or just you?




Shop - John Lennox

Books – Os Guinness

Books - Official Site | CSLewis.com

Let My People Think



Can you be specific about what that is? You'll find that I've either already done it, or that it cannot be done without evidence.
It's not that difficult.
It's been explained to you several times before.
Simply read the bible, talk to God and listen.

Your constant strawmanning is very much your problem. You need to be honest and accurate when reporting what others have said to you.

You're in need of awareness of what knowledge is and how it works.

Another of those features of Truth is--- that to know it's true, that belief requires acting on the truth.
Eg., I can believe that the key on my keyring will unlock my the door to my house, garage, car, mailbox, and storage lock, but until I actually use those keys, to unlock/lock those specific locks, I won't actually KNOW.....

It'll be nothing more than an opinion-belief.
Another example, I can indeed believe that the mini-oreo cookies I have in the little cup container I bought for a dollar taste good.... but until I do what I did, eat them, I won't actually KNOW they taste good.

This too is a basis of knowledge.....

That belief requires action for the knowledge we speak of to be experienced. Otherwise, it's nothing but an opinion.
This is why I say that atheism is nothing but a belief based on the lack of knowledge.
Btw.... those mini-oreos really tasted great!
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
Considering you have no examples, pretty much everything you post that claims I'm not giving you any information that shows that God is real, and knowable, as well your claims that I'm strawmanning are examples of misrepresentation.



You're a smart person.
I find it amusing that you are so desperate to ignore the resources I've previously provided you and then play stupid.
Is this a standard practice for atheists or just you?




Shop - John Lennox

Books – Os Guinness

Books - Official Site | CSLewis.com

Let My People Think




It's not that difficult.
It's been explained to you several times before.
Simply read the bible, talk to God and listen.



You're in need of awareness of what knowledge is and how it works.

Another of those features of Truth is--- that to know it's true, that belief requires acting on the truth.
Eg., I can believe that the key on my keyring will unlock my the door to my house, garage, car, mailbox, and storage lock, but until I actually use those keys, to unlock/lock those specific locks, I won't actually KNOW.....

It'll be nothing more than an opinion-belief.
Another example, I can indeed believe that the mini-oreo cookies I have in the little cup container I bought for a dollar taste good.... but until I do what I did, eat them, I won't actually KNOW they taste good.

This too is a basis of knowledge.....

That belief requires action for the knowledge we speak of to be experienced. Otherwise, it's nothing but an opinion.
This is why I say that atheism is nothing but a belief based on the lack of knowledge.
Btw.... those mini-oreos really tasted great!
By all means, please present your knowledge and how you gleaned it from reading the Bible, etc. Then we'll know if you've found the real thing, or you falsely think you have based on a false attribution of a personal subjective experience to God.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Considering you have no examples, pretty much everything you post that claims I'm not giving you any information that shows that God is real, and knowable, as well your claims that I'm strawmanning are examples of misrepresentation.
I have many examples of you misrepresenting me. Would you like me to list them? You still can't provide a single example of me misrepresenting you.

You're a smart person.
I find it amusing that you are so desperate to ignore the resources I've previously provided you and then play stupid.
Is this a standard practice for atheists or just you?
Is this how you apologize for your mistaken claim? You provided a list of articles, not books. And I didn't refuse to read them. I offered to do exactly that and you turned down my offer of discussion. Apparently my condition that you read them as well was deemed unreasonable.

It's not that difficult.
It's been explained to you several times before.
Simply read the bible, talk to God and listen.
So you were wrong to say I was refusing to do that. I've done all of that, and have told you as much before. So you are again misrepresenting me.

You're in need of awareness of what knowledge is and how it works.
No, I've got that covered. You just need to be honest about what people have said to you.

Another of those features of Truth is--- that to know it's true, that belief requires acting on the truth.
Eg., I can believe that the key on my keyring will unlock my the door to my house, garage, car, mailbox, and storage lock, but until I actually use those keys, to unlock/lock those specific locks, I won't actually KNOW.....

It'll be nothing more than an opinion-belief.
Another example, I can indeed believe that the mini-oreo cookies I have in the little cup container I bought for a dollar taste good.... but until I do what I did, eat them, I won't actually KNOW they taste good.

This too is a basis of knowledge.....

That belief requires action for the knowledge we speak of to be experienced. Otherwise, it's nothing but an opinion.
This is why I say that atheism is nothing but a belief based on the lack of knowledge.
Btw.... those mini-oreos really tasted great!
Sure, but that one has acted on one's beliefs does not necessarily show them to be knowledge. Again, atheism is an absence of belief often based on knowledge that believers lack.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
By all means, please present your knowledge and how you gleaned it from reading the Bible, etc. Then we'll know if you've found the real thing, or you falsely think you have based on a false attribution of a personal subjective experience to God.
I simply read.
I then took the time to learn to work through applying what I read in the bible.
I then began to realize through time that what I did and the results I got matched the biblical narrative.

So I continued reading and continued doing.

It's by no means easy, but it is very simple.

And you won't know jack until you do the same.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
I have many examples of you misrepresenting me. Would you like me to list them? You still can't provide a single example of me misrepresenting you.
And yet here we are almost a week into the new forum and you haven't presented a single one.

So I'll strike it up to your simply being a fraudster who needs to steal other's names instead of using a real name.

Is this how you apologize for your mistaken claim? You provided a list of articles, not books. And I didn't refuse to read them. I offered to do exactly that and you turned down my offer of discussion. Apparently my condition that you read them as well was deemed unreasonable.
Why, did I need to apologize?
And what am I apologizing for?
Your deliberate deception by choosing a well-known user from the previous forum?

So you were wrong to say I was refusing to do that. I've done all of that, and have told you as much before. So you are again misrepresenting me.

Yet I see nothing but your rants, and deliberate deception in using another person's name who is a well-known user from the previous forum.



No, I've got that covered. You just need to be honest about what people have said to you.
Oh, I've been honest from the get go, almost 8 years ago now.


Sure, but that one has acted on one's beliefs does not necessarily show them to be knowledge. Again, atheism is an absence of belief often based on knowledge that believers lack.
Atheism is the admittance that you have no interest whatsoever in actually knowing God.

Thus, atheists prefer ignorance, which is exactly why the bible says that he who says there is no God is a fool.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
And yet here we are almost a week into the new forum and you haven't presented a single one.
I've presented several. For your education, I'll list them here. And this is just from one week:

And why do you need people to tell you what to think if you're simply not believing God is real?
You just got done telling me that you're not going to tell me anything that'll benefit me.
So, now you're a know-it-all....
they keep telling me they don't really want to know.
Your lack of knowledge is because you don't want to know.
Just as long as you believe that you alone possess truth...
you went off topic when you decided to refuse to read the books I gave you the list for.

So I'll strike it up to your simply being a fraudster who needs to steal other's names instead of using a real name.
If you have a problem with my username, take it up with management.

Why, did I need to apologize? And what am I apologizing for?
For lying when you said you'd given me a list of books I'd refuse to read. What actually happened was that you gave me a list of articles that I offered to read and discuss with you, only you refused when I stipulated that you'd need to read them too.

Oh, I've been honest from the get go, almost 8 years ago now.
You make false claims about what others have said to you in practically every post. That's not honest.

Atheism is the admittance that you have no interest whatsoever in actually knowing God. Thus, atheists prefer ignorance, which is exactly why the bible says that he who says there is no God is a fool.
No, Steve. That is not what atheism is. Come on, surely you can at least get the basics right by now. Atheism is the state of not believing in any gods, and says nothing about one's desire or lack of desire for knowledge. You think we prefer ignorance, we think you prefer delusion. And we'll never work out who's right while you persist in avoiding any real discussion.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
I've presented several. For your education, I'll list them here. And this is just from one week:










If you have a problem with my username, take it up with management.


For lying when you said you'd given me a list of books I'd refuse to read. What actually happened was that you gave me a list of articles that I offered to read and discuss with you, only you refused when I stipulated that you'd need to read them too.


You make false claims about what others have said to you in practically every post. That's not honest.


No, Steve. That is not what atheism is. Come on, surely you can at least get the basics right by now. Atheism is the state of not believing in any gods, and says nothing about one's desire or lack of desire for knowledge. You think we prefer ignorance, we think you prefer delusion. And we'll never work out who's right while you persist in avoiding any real discussion.
I'm not the one who keeps avoiding real discussion.

You're the one who has been avoiding real conversation and keeps complaining.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
I'm not the one who keeps avoiding real discussion.

You're the one who has been avoiding real conversation and keeps complaining.
Kindergarten-level denial and projection. The above post is also coming from one who after asking me to post what I believe, decided to punish me for asking if he'd read my OP by refusing to address it. And somehow I'm the one avoiding discussion?
 
Last edited:

Whatsisface

Well-known member
I simply read.
I then took the time to learn to work through applying what I read in the bible.
I then began to realize through time that what I did and the results I got matched the biblical narrative.

So I continued reading and continued doing.

It's by no means easy, but it is very simple.

And you won't know jack until you do the same.
Right. That's what you did, but your not being specific as to what you read etc which is what anyone would need to evaluate whether you've found the real thing or not. Can you give some specific examples?
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
You are that very person.
When I try to engage Steve in discussion he starts misrepresenting me.
When I object to being strawmanned he demands examples (while also accusing me without giving any examples at all).
When I provide examples he objects that I keep complaining instead of engaging in discussion.
And he wonders why he never gets anywhere.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Kindergarten-level denial and projection. The above post is also coming from one who after asking me to post what I believe, decided to punish me for asking if he'd read my OP by refusing to address it. And somehow I'm the one avoiding discussion?
then perhaps you'd do well to ramp it up to an adult level. Because I've been waiting for close to 8 years for adult level discussion, and all I get are kindergarten level denials, and projection from the atheists here. So, after years of trying to be reasonable, I figured I'd show you what I see, to see if perhaps you'd get a clue, but so far, nothing.....
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Because I've been waiting for close to 8 years for adult level discussion...
No you haven't. I offered to discuss the articles you linked to, if you would read them too, and you refused. I started a thread to lay out some of what I believe, and you responded by trying to punish me by withholding your thoughts on the topic. These are not the actions of one seeking adult discussion.

So, after years of trying to be reasonable...
A pity you never tried this approach here at CARM.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Right. That's what you did, but your not being specific as to what you read etc which is what anyone would need to evaluate whether you've found the real thing or not. Can you give some specific examples?
It's not that difficult.
God says--- turn to God, from your sin, and place your trust in Jesus.

So, think in terms of a parent who calls your name, catching in you in the act of something they told you not to do.
You have a choice.....
You can either let go of what you were doing, and turn to your parent, and trust their word, of having something better for you, or you can remain stubborn about it, and receive the penalty of your actions.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
It's not that difficult.
God says--- turn to God, from your sin, and place your trust in Jesus.
Could you place your trust in someone without having good evidence they exist?

According to your story, you didn't do that at all. So on what basis do you declare it to be easy?
 
Top