Simpletruther
Well-known member
I assumed we all agree they were. But I am debating someone that is denying that they were.
How common us this among the non calvinist?
How common us this among the non calvinist?
Were men born again in the OT?
- Thread starter Simpletruther
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ReverendRV
Well-known member
Use the account of Jesus and Nicodemus to PROVE that those under the Old Covenant were Born Again. Jesus was shocked that Nicodemus wasn't teaching the Old Covenant people of his Day that they MUST be Born Again...
There's only ONE reason that this will not settle the discussion; IE Cognitive Dissonance. Take note that people herea5 CARM will reject this...
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Nope scripture
First regeneration as seen below is a future promise
Ezekiel 36:21–27 (KJV 1900) — 21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. 22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name’s sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
confirmed
John 7:38–39 (KJV 1900) — 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
the reason Nicodemis should have know of it is because of scripture
Psalm 22:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 A seed shall serve him; It shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
Maybe you should refrain from speaking of Cognitive Dissonance when the scriptures do not support you
Dizerner
Well-known member
King David said "take not thy Holy Spirit from me" and Peter said the holy men of old were moved by the Spirit.
The idea that the Holy Spirit first showed up at Pentecost is ludicrous.
The idea that lost people can't experience the Holy Spirit is also, and promotes this constant neutering of what God's grace can do.
Yes Kings and leaders had the holy spirit enabling them for service but it was not in the new covenant sense of personal regeneration
As Ezek36 shows it was a future promise
You might want to also consider Jer 31 and the law written on the heart
another future promise
You need to address these along with John 7:38, 39
It is only your assumption of what you thought my words mean that is ludicrous
See also
Ezekiel 11:17–20 (KJV 1900) — 17 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel. 18 And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence. 19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: 20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
another future promise
Jeremiah 32:37–42 (KJV 1900) — 37 Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely: 38 And they shall be my people, and I will be their God: 39 And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them: 40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me. 41 Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul. 42 For thus saith the LORD; Like as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them.