Were you a person?

[Nic]

Irrelevant. The purpose of the lungs is to obtain oxygen for the individual newly independent of the placenta.

I submit the purpose of the lungs in utero begin and develop breathing. The purpose of the human zygote is the continuation of the species. 🙂

 

[Tiburon]

Arguing over words rather than the substance of the issue is missing the point.

The point is that humans are capable of knowing what is the good thing to do, in any situation, whether it be not possessing slaves or not killing the unborn child, BUT, humans will ignore what is the good when led astray by our passions, desire for pleasure, pursuit of excess, money, power, etc.

For example, when slavery was legal and financially beneficial then the many could deceive themselves to justify slavery. Take away the financial benefits and the many will agree that slavery is bad.

Abortion is the same. Now that it is legal and financially beneficial to terminate the unborn human’s life (i.e., not having to be responsible for the child) then people like you today can justify it. But in another age and time when there is no reward to killing ones unborn child (for reasons other than medical necessity) the many will recognize that it is evil, barbaric, and inhumane. I have no doubt that a future generation will condemn our own, just as we condemn those before us who justified slavery.

There is no need to be responsible for the child. Everyone is free to give up the child for adoption. What are Christians doing to promote this as an alternative? All I see is them saying NO to abortion I don't see Christians offering any real support to promote the option of bringing unwanted pregnancies to term.
What makes abortion evil, barbaric, and inhumane?

 

[BMS]

There is no need to be responsible for the child. Everyone is free to give up the child for adoption. What are Christians doing to promote this as an alternative? All I see is them saying NO to abortion I don't see Christians offering any real support to promote the option of bringing unwanted pregnancies to term.
What makes abortion evil, barbaric, and inhumane?

Well there are a number of instances where Christians arent allowed to adopt because of their faith. So what is secular society doing asking Christians to take responisibilty for society's ills?

As to your question, read the threads, its all explained at length

 

[Tiburon]

Well there are a number of instances where Christians arent allowed to adopt because of their faith. So what is secular society doing asking Christians to take responisibilty for society's ills?

As to your question, read the threads, its all explained at length

Where does the Bible tell us that we aren't allowed to adopt?
I'm not asking the thread, I'm asking Docphin5.

 

[BMS]

Where does the Bible tell us that we aren't allowed to adopt?

it doesnt. Western society does.

I'm not asking the thread, I'm asking Docphin5.

why? Do you want to know the answer or have you just got an issue with Docphin5 telling you?

 

[Temujin]

I submit the purpose of the lungs in utero begin and develop breathing. The purpose of the human zygote is the continuation of the species. 🙂

Sophistry. The foetus moves its legs while in the womb. It isn't walking. The lungs do nothing in utero. They are not suffused with blood. There's no gas exchange. The diaphragm flexes and the chest expands and contracts, but there's no breathing. You have gone down a blind alley with this one. And typically, you are incapable of admitting as much and moving on. I wish someone would post the Bible verse that says "When caught out in the wrong, never admit fault. Always double down." I'm sure it's there somewhere. There's a biblical text for everything.

 

[BMS]

Sophistry. The foetus moves its legs while in the womb. It isn't walking. The lungs do nothing in utero. They are not suffused with blood. There's no gas exchange. The diaphragm flexes and the chest expands and contracts, but there's no breathing. You have gone down a blind alley with this one. And typically, you are incapable of admitting as much and moving on. I wish someone would post the Bible verse that says "When caught out in the wrong, never admit fault. Always double down." I'm sure it's there somewhere. There's a biblical text for everything.

Deluded

 

[Nic]

.

Sophistry. The foetus moves its legs while in the womb. It isn't walking. The lungs do nothing in utero. They are not suffused with blood. There's no gas exchange. The diaphragm flexes and the chest expands and contracts, but there's no breathing. You have gone down a blind alley with this one. And typically, you are incapable of admitting as much and moving on. I wish someone would post the Bible verse that says "When caught out in the wrong, never admit fault. Always double down." I'm sure it's there somewhere. There's a biblical text for everything.

No, not all. I'm sorry if it sounded that way, I was only attempting to be clear and concise. I even borrowed your starting point, "The purpose of..." .

Analysis of fetal breathing movements at 30–38 weeks of gestation

The data provide a sound basis for relating changes in fetal breathing movements with physiological and anatomical changes that occur as the respiratory system matures.​

Fetal Lung Development: Overview and Practice Questions

Fetal lung development is a complex process that begins early in gestation and continues even after the infant is born. This process is essential for the lungs to be functional at birth, which is required for breathing and gas exchange to occur.​

 

[Temujin]

.

No, not all. I'm sorry if it sounded that way, I was only attempting to be clear and concise. I even borrowed your starting point, "The purpose of..." .

Analysis of fetal breathing movements at 30–38 weeks of gestation

The data provide a sound basis for relating changes in fetal breathing movements with physiological and anatomical changes that occur as the respiratory system matures.​

Fetal Lung Development: Overview and Practice Questions

Fetal lung development is a complex process that begins early in gestation and continues even after the infant is born. This process is essential for the lungs to be functional at birth, which is required for breathing and gas exchange to occur.​

Not a problem. Perhaps now you understand that breathing movements are not breathing, just as leg movements are not walking.

 

[Nic]

Not a problem. Perhaps now you understand that breathing movements are not breathing, just as leg movements are not walking.

I suppose you can hold that view. My assertion was that breathing occurs though in amniotic fluid and matures lung function. I have not been persuaded to do anything except feel confident in my assertion as you seem to do in yours.

 

[Nic]

Not a problem. Perhaps now you understand that breathing movements are not breathing, just as leg movements are not walking.

In utero development of fetal breathing movements in C57BL6 mice

From the abstract:

Fetuses of many species, including humans, breathe during development. This fetal breathing aids in lung development, strengthens respiratory muscles, and is posited to fine-tune the neural circuitry that drives breathing.​

This accords with my view.

 

[Temujin]

I suppose you can hold that view. My assertion was that breathing occurs though in amniotic fluid and matures lung function. I have not been persuaded to do anything except feel confident in my assertion as you seem to do in yours.

Ok. How does that affect the debate on abortion, in your view?

 

[Tiburon]

it doesnt. Western society does.
why? Do you want to know the answer or have you just got an issue with Docphin5 telling you?

Give me an instance where Christians weren't allowed to adopt because of their faith?
If all Christians are not barred from adopting it is irrelevant.
Would Christians only offer support to promote the option of bringing unwanted pregnancies to term, if those children could be adopted by Christians?
Docphin5 made the statement that abortion is evil, barbaric, and inhumane, so I was interested in his/her reasons.

 

[Nic]

Ok. How does that affect the debate on abortion, in your view?

In my view, there is no debate. But I realize that isn't addressing what your asking. Do fetal lungs and fetal breathing denote a sanctity of life position? Is that what your asking or could you be more specific? Thank you!

 

[Temujin]

In my view, there is no debate. But I realize that isn't addressing what your asking. Do fetal lungs and fetal breathing denote a sanctity of life position? Is that what your asking or could you be more specific? Thank you!

I wondered why you started this hate running, that's all.

 

[Nic]

I wondered why you started this hate running, that's all.

I'll be frank with you. In this thread this is the first time I have ever taken any of your comments towards my responses in negative light placing my character in question. Maybe it's just polemics in this response, perhaps it was misunderstanding me earlier, but as for me no matter who, I usually begin and try to maintain a benefit of the doubt. In that regard I had thought we had mutual respect for each other. I'm sorry if I have offended you beyond the norms of dialogue to evoke a bad impression. I say it like that because offense in conversation is necessary if people are to have hope exchanging ideas. If I'm wrong about your motive please forgive me. The other post in this thread to me was about citing a verse about something.
I'm good, if you're good?
I suspect this post at a minimum meets the criteria you set forth in your other response I referenced where you allege I really went down a blind ally... 🙂

 

[Temujin]

I'll be frank with you. In this thread this is the first time I have ever taken any of your comments towards my responses in negative light placing my character in question. Maybe it's just polemics in this response, perhaps it was misunderstanding me earlier, but as for me no matter who, I usually begin and try to maintain a benefit of the doubt. In that regard I had thought we had mutual respect for each other. I'm sorry if I have offended you beyond the norms of dialogue to evoke a bad impression. I say it like that because offense in conversation is necessary if people are to have hope exchanging ideas. If I'm wrong about your motive please forgive me. The other post in this thread to me was about citing a verse about something.
I'm good, if you're good?
I suspect this post at a minimum meets the criteria you set forth in your other response I referenced where you allege I really went down a blind ally... 🙂

Thanks for this. I suspect that we are both talking at cross purposes. I am particularly thin skinned on this section of the site, where I have been called everything you can imagine, from murderer to moron. I saw your initial comment was to a poster I have on ignore for that reason amongst others, so I was very ready to be offended.

I would still like to know what relevance, if any, your ideas on breathing in utero have to do with abortion.

Also I just noted a misspelling in my last post. Fore "hate" read "hare". Could be one source of confusion. Lol!

 

[Authentic Nouveau]

Sophistry. The foetus moves its legs while in the womb. It isn't walking. The lungs do nothing in utero. They are not suffused with blood. There's no gas exchange. The diaphragm flexes and the chest expands and contracts, but there's no breathing. You have gone down a blind alley with this one. And typically, you are incapable of admitting as much and moving on. I wish someone would post the Bible verse that says "When caught out in the wrong, never admit fault. Always double down." I'm sure it's there somewhere. There's a biblical text for everything.

God promised to give you over to a delusion. God is faithful.

 

[Temujin]

God promised to give you over to a delusion. God is faithful.

You are not Hod. And despite your best efforts, no-one is deluded by you.

 

[mikeT]

God promised to give you over to a delusion. God is faithful.

By definition, omniscient beings can't have faith.

Ever.

Open mouth insert Oneness foot?