Westminster Confession: "begotten"

The doctrine as believed by the reformed community is specified in the Westminster confession: "In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. The Father is of none, neither begotten, nor proceeding: the Son is eternally begotten of the Father: the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son." This is what I believe. The RCC agrees with this assessment.

TRINITARIANS...

1.) In your confession, which Greek word has the same definition as "begotten"?

For example, is it the Greek word gennaō...

Hebrews 1:5... For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten (gennaō) thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

2.) In your confession, does the word "begotten" refer to incarnation?

Luke 1:35 ASV... And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee: wherefore also the holy thing which is begotten (gennaō) shall be called the Son of God.

Luke 1:35 KJV... And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born (gennaō) of thee shall be called the Son of God.

P.S.

Here is a concise statement of what I believe...
The spirit Yahweh is the only one who is eternal. Yahweh is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. Yahweh in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, Yahweh in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal Yahweh is called God the Father.

And here is a more detailed overview...
(Note: I agree with the view of Melito, Bishop of Sardis around AD 160-180. The following is how I word it.)
For this creation, Yahweh God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how Yahweh would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent Yahweh (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Son of God) with a glorious human body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Son of God. But whereas Yahweh created a human spirit and soul for each of us, Yahweh himself became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
 
1.) In your confession, which Greek word has the same definition as "begotten"?

2.) In your confession, does the word "begotten" refer to incarnation?

One TRINITARIAN posted the Doctrine of the Trinity contained in the Westminster Confession.

Another TRINITARIAN started a thread titled "The doctrine of the Holy trinity is clear in Scripture..."

So TRINITARIANS...

If the doctrine of the Trinity is so clear in Scripture...

So that you can have a small 55 word confession describe it...

Why hasn't any Trinitarian been able to answer the questions.
 
1.) In your confession, which Greek word has the same definition as "begotten"?

2.) In your confession, does the word "begotten" refer to incarnation?

Is there ANY Trinitarian who can answer my questions.

Here is the Westminster Confession on the Trinity…
In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost: the Father is of none, neither begotten, nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.

Here is how I see the distinctions between the Father, the Son, and the Spirit...
GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

P.S. Here is how I came to my stataement...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

As is the convention of English Bibles, I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify that the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

Deuteronomy 33:27The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
 
In response to your various questions, I find them for the most part pointless. You seem to be nitpicking at word useage while not trying to understand what is being said? Personally, I don't want to go round and round on such obfuscating the primary discussion.

But as YOU have said to others...

To choose to not respond to the reasoning I presented tells any honest reader that you don't have a meaningful reply, i.e. you know your wrong but your throwing out this smoke screen to hide your retreat. Wow, simply wow.

I would hope SOME Trinitarians COULD answer the questions concerning the Trinitarian confession!
 
In response to your various questions, I find them for the most part pointless. You seem to be nitpicking at word useage while not trying to understand what is being said? Personally, I don't want to go round and round on such obfuscating the primary discussion.
But as YOU have said to others...
To choose to not respond to the reasoning I presented tells any honest reader that you don't have a meaningful reply, i.e. you know your wrong but your throwing out this smoke screen to hide your retreat. Wow, simply wow.
I would hope SOME Trinitarians COULD answer the questions concerning the Trinitarian confession!
I will reply to one of these for clarity sake. My response is above. It is perfectly reasonable to choose to not respond at all to something. To these OP, that is my choice. It is 100% different to reply without interacting with the other persons argument. Yahwah will Increase was replying to me without interacting with my argument at all. To reply while choosing to not respond to the reasoning presented tells the honest reader that the replier doesn't have a meaningful reply. This is what I was saying. In context, it makes perfect sense, and in context, it doesn't apply to the situation between Yahchristian and myself with respect to the westminster posts.

God Bless
 
To reply while choosing to not respond to the reasoning presented tells the honest reader that the replier doesn't have a meaningful reply.

I agree, so we DO agree on something. :)

But I would also add that not answering simple questions tells the honest reader that the replier doesn't know the truth either.

If I was a seeker...
and Trinitarians were saying to be saved you have to believe in the Trinity...
and Trinitarians had a concise 55 word description of the Trinity...
and yet they could not answer simple questions about it...
I would think they cannot possible know the truth...
Since the truth should be easy to defend.

But I respect your decision not to answer any of the questions concerning the Westminster Confession (THE doctrine of the Trinity).


But I am hoping there is AT LEAST ONE Trinitarian on this forum who CAN answer the questions...

1.) In your confession, which Greek word has the same definition as "begotten"?

2.) In your confession, does the word "begotten" refer to incarnation?

Here is the Westminster Confession on the Trinity…

In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost: the Father is of none, neither begotten, nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.
 
Last edited:

johnny guitar

Active member
I agree, so we DO agree on something. :)

But I would also add that not answering simple questions tells the honest reader that the replier doesn't know the truth either.

If I was a seeker...
and Trinitarians were saying to be saved you have to believe in the Trinity...
and Trinitarians had a concise 55 word description of the Trinity...
and yet they could not answer simple questions about it...
I would think they cannot possible know the truth...
Since the truth should be easy to defend.

But I respect your decision not to answer any of the questions concerning the Westminster Confession (THE doctrine of the Trinity).


But I am hoping there is AT LEAST ONE Trinitarian on this forum who CAN answer the questions...

1.) In your confession, which Greek word has the same definition as "begotten"?

2.) In your confession, does the word "begotten" refer to incarnation?

Here is the Westminster Confession on the Trinity…

In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost: the Father is of none, neither begotten, nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.
In the Westminster Confession the word begotten does NOT refer to the incarnation .
 
Top