Westminster Confession: "Holy Ghost"

Y

Yahchristian

Member
DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
The doctrine as believe by the reformed community is specified in the Westminster confession: "In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. The Father is of none, neither begotten, nor proceeding: the Son is eternally begotten of the Father: the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son." This is what I believe. The RCC agrees with this assessment.
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TRINITARIANS...

1.) In your CURRENT confession, why do you use the term "Holy GHOST" rather than "Holy SPIRIT"?

400 years ago, the words "Ghost" and "Spirit" had similar meanings. But...

The current definition of "Spirit" is "the nonphysical part of a person which is the seat of emotions and character".

The current definition of "Ghost" is "an apparition of a dead person which is believed to appear or become manifest to the living".


2.) In your CURRENT confession, why do you use the term "GOD THE Holy Ghost" rather than "the Spirit OF GOD"?

No Bible translation uses the term "God the Holy Ghost" or even "God the Holy Spirit". The Bible uses the term "the Spirit of God".

Why do Trinitarians have an aversion to using biblical terms in their CURRENT confession???


P.S.

Here is a concise statement of what I believe...
The spirit Yahweh is the only one who is eternal. Yahweh is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. Yahweh in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, Yahweh in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal Yahweh is called God the Father.

And here is a more detailed overview...
(Note: I agree with the view of Melito, Bishop of Sardis around AD 160-180. The following is how I word it.)
For this creation, Yahweh God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how Yahweh would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent Yahweh (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Son of God) with a glorious human body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Son of God. But whereas Yahweh created a human spirit and soul for each of us, Yahweh himself became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
 
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Y

Yahchristian

Member
Yahchristian said:
1.) In your CURRENT confession, why do you use the term "Holy GHOST" rather than "Holy SPIRIT"?

2.) In your CURRENT confession, why do you use the term "GOD THE Holy Ghost" rather than "the Spirit OF GOD"?
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Is there ANY OTHER Trinitarian who can answer my questions.

Here is the Westminster Confession on the Trinity…
In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost: the Father is of none, neither begotten, nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.

Here is how I see the distinctions between the Father, the Son, and the Spirit...
GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

P.S. Here is how I came to my stataement...
GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

As is the convention of English Bibles, I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify that the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.
GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

Deuteronomy 33:27… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.
GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.
GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.
GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
 
Y

Yahchristian

Member
DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
In response to your various questions, I find them for the most part pointless. You seem to be nitpicking at word useage while not trying to understand what is being said? Personally, I don't want to go round and round on such obfuscating the primary discussion.
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But as YOU have said to others...

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
To choose to not respond to the reasoning I presented tells any honest reader that you don't have a meaningful reply, i.e. you know your wrong but your throwing out this smoke screen to hide your retreat. Wow, simply wow.
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I would hope SOME Trinitarians COULD answer the questions concerning the Trinitarian confession!
 
J

johnny guitar

Active member
Yahchristian said:
TRINITARIANS...

1.) In your CURRENT confession, why do you use the term "Holy GHOST" rather than "Holy SPIRIT"?

400 years ago, the words "Ghost" and "Spirit" had similar meanings. But...

The current definition of "Spirit" is "the nonphysical part of a person which is the seat of emotions and character".

The current definition of "Ghost" is "an apparition of a dead person which is believed to appear or become manifest to the living".


2.) In your CURRENT confession, why do you use the term "GOD THE Holy Ghost" rather than "the Spirit OF GOD"?

No Bible translation uses the term "God the Holy Ghost" or even "God the Holy Spirit". The Bible uses the term "the Spirit of God".

Why do Trinitarians have an aversion to using biblical terms in their CURRENT confession???


P.S.

Here is a concise statement of what I believe...
The spirit Yahweh is the only one who is eternal. Yahweh is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. Yahweh in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, Yahweh in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal Yahweh is called God the Father.

And here is a more detailed overview...
(Note: I agree with the view of Melito, Bishop of Sardis around AD 160-180. The following is how I word it.)
For this creation, Yahweh God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how Yahweh would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent Yahweh (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Son of God) with a glorious human body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Son of God. But whereas Yahweh created a human spirit and soul for each of us, Yahweh himself became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
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The Holy Spirit is the prevalent usage today.
The Holy Ghost is old fashioned.
 
Y

Yahchristian

Member
johnny guitar said:
The Holy Spirit is the prevalent usage today.
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NOT true. Here is the Westminster Confession on the PCA website TODAY.

That is the same confession that your fellow Trinitarian posted on this forum when asked "What is THE doctrine of the Trinity?"

So my question was...

1.) In your CURRENT confession, WHY do you use the term "Holy GHOST" rather than "Holy SPIRIT"?


johnny guitar said:
The Holy Ghost is old fashioned.
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I agree!

So my question was...

2.) In your CURRENT confession, WHY do you use the term "GOD THE Holy Ghost" rather than "the Spirit OF GOD"?
 
J

johnny guitar

Active member
Yahchristian said:
NOT true. Here is the Westminster Confession on the PCA website TODAY.

That is the same confession that your fellow Trinitarian posted on this forum when asked "What is THE doctrine of the Trinity?"

So my question was...

1.) In your CURRENT confession, WHY do you use the term "Holy GHOST" rather than "Holy SPIRIT"?




I agree!

So my question was...

2.) In your CURRENT confession, WHY do you use the term "GOD THE Holy Ghost" rather than "the Spirit OF GOD"?
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Current confessions almost all use The Holy Spirit.
 
Y

Yahchristian

Member
johnny guitar said:
Current confessions almost all use The Holy Spirit.
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Almost all except the PCA and PCUSA and many others.

I posted the PCA's version of the Westminster Confession and it still says "God the Holy Ghost". And so does the PCUSA's.

Where have you seen a Westminster Confession that does not say "God the Holy Ghost"?
 
J

johnny guitar

Active member
Yahchristian said:
So....

The most popular Protestant Confession on the Trinity says "God the Holy Ghost" rather than "the Spirit of God".

My question is WHY ???

Perhaps because Trinitarians believe tradition is better than correct language.

Etc.

I really am curious of the answer.
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These confessions were drawn up hundreds of years ago when the term Holy Ghost was standard.
Most Churches no longer use the title Holy Ghost.
 
Y

Yahchristian

Member
johnny guitar said:
These confessions were drawn up hundreds of years ago when the term Holy Ghost was standard.
Most Churches no longer use the title Holy Ghost.
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I just posted that the PCA and PCUSA still have the exact same working in their confession TODAY.

So WHY do TRINITARIANS still use the term "God the Holy Ghost" (which has NEVER been used in the Bible) rather than "the Spirit of God" (which IS used in the Bible)?

You hint that the reason may be TRADITION. But WHOSE tradition since the Bible NEVER used the term "God the Holy Ghost".

Much like Catholics say tradition is equal to scripture, so do Protestant TRINITARIANS. Or so it seems.

If that is NOT the case, then WHAT IS THE REASON?
 
J

johnny guitar

Active member
Yahchristian said:
I just posted that the PCA and PCUSA still have the exact same working in their confession TODAY.

So WHY do TRINITARIANS still use the term "God the Holy Ghost" (which has NEVER been used in the Bible) rather than "the Spirit of God" (which IS used in the Bible)?

You hint that the reason may be TRADITION. But WHOSE tradition since the Bible NEVER used the term "God the Holy Ghost".

Much like Catholics say tradition is equal to scripture, so do Protestant TRINITARIANS. Or so it seems.

If that is NOT the case, then WHAT IS THE REASON?
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Perhaps those confessions date from the 19th century or earlier.
The term Holy Ghost is OUTDATED today.
 
Y

Yahchristian

Member
johnny guitar said:
Perhaps those confessions date from the 19th century or earlier.
The term Holy Ghost is OUTDATED today.
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I totally agree "the term Holy Ghost is OUTDATED" !!!

That is why I asked...

WHY do TRINITARIANS use the term "Holy GHOST" rather than "Holy SPIRIT"?

The Protestant TRINITARIAN Westminster Confession TODAY still uses the term "Holy GHOST" !!!

And the TRINITARIAN Catholic Encyclopedia has an entry for "Holy Ghost" but NOT one for "Holy Spirit" !!!

So you shouldn't be getting upset with me, you should be getting upset with your fellow TRINITARIANS. :)
 
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