What a Cadillac with a crumpled rear end reminds me of. Or maybe a damaged Mona Lisa

treeplanter said:
No, Adam did NOT decide that because he disobeyed God each and every one of his progeny will suffer

This was God's decision
A needlessly harmful one
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Adam was warned beforehand about the consequences of eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

So, by eating the fruit, he made the decision.

Gen 2:16-17 WEB 16 Yahweh God commanded the man, saying, “You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; 17 but you shall not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”

Gen 3:17-19 WEB 17 To Adam he said, “Because you have listened to your wife’s voice, and have eaten from the tree, about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it,’ the ground is cursed for your sake. You will eat from it with much labor all the days of your life. 18 It will yield thorns and thistles to you; and you will eat the herb of the field. 19 You will eat bread by the sweat of your face until you return to the ground, for you were taken out of it. For you are dust, and you shall return to dust.”

Such are the natural consequence of sin.
 
SteveB said:
Adam was warned beforehand about the consequences of eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

So, by eating the fruit, he made the decision.
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No, Steve - you are wrong again

It was God who decided that innocent people should have to suffer the consequences for the actions of someone else

This is the system that He set up
Adam is just a pawn
 
treeplanter said:
No, Steve - you are wrong again

It was God who decided that innocent people should have to suffer the consequences for the actions of someone else

This is the system that He set up
Adam is just a pawn
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Well, since it's obvious that you don't actually give a rat's tail in hades about the truth, I'm thinking that you're going to have to live with the consequences and the awareness that your beliefs regarding this matter are wrong and will increase the wrath contained within your existing condemnation.
 
SteveB said:
Well, since it's obvious that you don't actually give a rat's tail in hades about the truth, I'm thinking that you're going to have to live with the consequences and the awareness that your beliefs regarding this matter are wrong and will increase the wrath contained within your existing condemnation.
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Did Adam say to himself
{much less possess the power to make it so}
"Hmm, now that I've disobeyed God - I think what I ought to do is make it so that my offspring must suffer the consequence of my actions"?

No, Steve, of course not!

Then who was it that decided that this is the way that it will be?

Answer:
God!
 
treeplanter said:
Did Adam say to himself
{much less possess the power to make it so}
"Hmm, now that I've disobeyed God - I think what I ought to do is make it so that my offspring must suffer the consequence of my actions"?

No, Steve, of course not!
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Bingo! Preconceptions and assumptions about matters not stated in the bible.
You've chosen to believe lies and deception.

Well, considering that is exactly what the serpent did to Eve, I'm thinking that you have bought the lie of the serpent, hook, line and sinker!




treeplanter said:
Then who was it that decided that this is the way that it will be?

Answer:
God!
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"Has God REALLY said? You shall not die! God knows that in the day you eat thereof, you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

You're believing you can know things that are simply not stated in the bible.

You my dear fellow human being are deceived and a deceiver!
 
treeplanter said:
It was God who decided that Adam's actions shall affect his progeny, not Adam

God designed the system
God implemented the system

God is responsible
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Well, until you recognize that you are culpable for your own sin, you will remain enslaved to the consequences for choosing death.
 
SteveB said:
Well, until you recognize that you are culpable for your own sin, you will remain enslaved to the consequences for choosing death.
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Culpable?

Culpable for having been born, by the conscious and purposeful choice of God, incapable of living a sinless life??

Hardly, Steve!!!
 
treeplanter said:
Culpable?

Culpable for having been born, by the conscious and purposeful choice of God, incapable of living a sinless life??

Hardly, Steve!!!
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Oh, you're culpable.

YHVH gave us 613 laws.

He plainly stated in Leviticus 18:5,

Lev 18:5 WEB You shall therefore keep my statutes and my ordinances, which if a man does, he shall live in them. I am Yahweh.

Paul even reiterated this, in Romans and Galatians.

Rom 10:5 WEB For Moses writes about the righteousness of the law, “The one who does them will live by them.”

Gal 3:12 WEB The law is not of faith, but, “The man who does them will live by them.”


Since however you have previously established that you don't recognize or acknowledge YHVH's righteousness, you've made yourself a god, which means that you are guilty of idolatry.
You've further demonstrated that you have no respect for YHVH, so you have made it clear that you are a blasphemer.
You've demonstrated further still that you have chosen to believe lies, and in spite of the fact that you have been explained the truth, you continue to argue that you don't care about the truth, you only want opinions.
Making you a false witness.

These make you culpable for your own sin.

He's given you the opportunity to engage him on his terms and truth, and turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus Christ. In doing so the entire debt record of your sin will be wiped away.

He said

Psa 103:8-14 WEB 8 Yahweh is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abundant in loving kindness. 9 He will not always accuse; neither will he stay angry forever. 10 He has not dealt with us according to our sins, nor repaid us for our iniquities. 11 For as the heavens are high above the earth, so great is his loving kindness toward those who fear him. 12 As far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us. 13 Like a father has compassion on his children, so Yahweh has compassion on those who fear him. 14 For he knows how we are made. He remembers that we are dust.
 
SteveB said:
Exactly!


All Adam did was to do the very thing that God said would result in his death.

Adam died, and every single human being who has been born ever since has been dying.




Nope.
Death changed everything!
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They were already going to die. Thus the tree of life.
The only thing that died was there ignorance of Good and Evil.
 
SteveB said:
Oh, you're culpable.

YHVH gave us 613 laws.

He plainly stated in Leviticus 18:5,

Lev 18:5 WEB You shall therefore keep my statutes and my ordinances, which if a man does, he shall live in them. I am Yahweh.

Paul even reiterated this, in Romans and Galatians.

Rom 10:5 WEB For Moses writes about the righteousness of the law, “The one who does them will live by them.”

Gal 3:12 WEB The law is not of faith, but, “The man who does them will live by them.”


Since however you have previously established that you don't recognize or acknowledge YHVH's righteousness, you've made yourself a god, which means that you are guilty of idolatry.
You've further demonstrated that you have no respect for YHVH, so you have made it clear that you are a blasphemer.
You've demonstrated further still that you have chosen to believe lies, and in spite of the fact that you have been explained the truth, you continue to argue that you don't care about the truth, you only want opinions.
Making you a false witness.

These make you culpable for your own sin.

He's given you the opportunity to engage him on his terms and truth, and turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus Christ. In doing so the entire debt record of your sin will be wiped away.

He said

Psa 103:8-14 WEB 8 Yahweh is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abundant in loving kindness. 9 He will not always accuse; neither will he stay angry forever. 10 He has not dealt with us according to our sins, nor repaid us for our iniquities. 11 For as the heavens are high above the earth, so great is his loving kindness toward those who fear him. 12 As far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us. 13 Like a father has compassion on his children, so Yahweh has compassion on those who fear him. 14 For he knows how we are made. He remembers that we are dust.
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Paul did away with "The Law".
Otherwise why aren't you keeping those 613 laws?
 
Tiburon said:
There was no mention of Corruption until Paul came along.
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Correct. Paul was probably the first to use that word as descriptive of the Eden event. God gave him the special revelation of both the corruption of the cosmos and its redemption through Christ. He calls it the unveiling of the mystery of the ages.
 
stiggy wiggy said:
Correct. Paul was probably the first to use that word as descriptive of the Eden event. God gave him the special revelation of both the corruption of the cosmos and its redemption through Christ. He calls it the unveiling of the mystery of the ages.
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You say "special revelation" I say invention.
 
stiggy wiggy said:
Wrong. Paul was just a man. He had no authority to do away with the Law. He merely pointed out how Christ fulfilled it.
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Fulfilled just means he kept the law. Paul He had no authority to do away with the Law yet he exempted his followers from being under the law.
No circumcision, no dietary rules, none of that.
 
Tiburon said:
Fulfilled just means he kept the law.
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No. It means He was the Law's sacrificed Lamb of God. You'd best stick to the obvious stuff, like you were doing earlier.

Tiburon said:
Paul He had no authority to do away with the Law yet he exempted his followers from being under the law.
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Wrong. He was just a man. He had no authority to exempt anyone.

Tiburon said:
No circumcision, no dietary rules, none of that.
Click to expand...

Correct. Paul revealed our freedom in Christ.
 
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