What are we after death?

GeneZ

Well-known member
That's another topic.
You are being evasive and disingenuous now... I made the point. Now you want to move the target with the bullseye hit spot on.

I do not know why you people come here just to see how you can obfuscate and divert. Those who hunger for truth would never be that way, even if they disagreed with what was said.

Its become personal when you make such objections (which was not founded) after I addressed what was said.

Here again is what you said, and I addressed.

When you talk about angels, you are talking about how they make an appearance on earth. The Bible says that physical bodies cannot inherit the kingdom, meaning these bodies are left behind. In the same way, angels take on bodies when they appear on earth, and then discard them when they leave this realm.

Its flesh and BLOOD that can not inherit! The resurrected Jesus had flesh and bone. No blood! He went to Heaven flesh and bone. Careful how you read! One little word missed can change the entire meaning.
 
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GeneZ

Well-known member
Have you considered Luke 20:34-36
Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage,
but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;
for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Note.. Jesus was speaking only of angels of God! Not simply ... angels. Not fallen angels.

God's power of the grace gift of celibacy is not given to unbelievers!

Paul was celibate. So was Daniel.. and Jeremiah... And others who were chosen to perform a certain work for God.

The fallen angels do not receive the power of God's comforting grace to control their desires. Its with the fallen angels where we get the root for all the perversions we find in the world today. Demons are filled with lusts and desires that can never be satisfied. On the other hand.. God's angels in Heaven have peace within themselves. They no more need marriage than a ecstatically happy child needs marriage.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
You are being evasive and disingenuous now... I made the point. Now you want to move the target with the bullseye hit spot on.

I do not know why you people come here just to see how you can obfuscate and divert. Those who hunger for truth would never be that way, even if they disagreed with what was said.

Its become personal when you make such objections (which was not founded) after I addressed what was said.

Alright. I've got to get used to it. Some people want to win the argument, not the truth. Its like the Greek debates when someone who did not even agree with his own position, was determined to win the debate anyway... Human nature has not changed.
Ok, come now. You have misrepresented what i said several times and your posts have been all over the place.
I am willing to speak honestly and directly with you about any Biblical topic, unless you start acting like the calvinists
and begin to engage in personal insults. I am not here to avoid truth or muddy the waters, or to just win an argument.

There is no value in winning a argument, and besides even if we are right, the other debaters never acknowledge it.
So if you want to talk Bible, and stay away from the kind of language you are using here, then yes I will talk scripture all day.

Your choice.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Note.. Jesus was speaking only of angels of God! Not simply ... angels. Not fallen angels.

God's power of the grace gift of celibacy is not given to unbelievers!

Paul was celibate. So was Daniel.. and Jeremiah... And others who were chosen to perform a certain work for God.

The fallen angels do not receive the power of God's comforting grace to control their desires. Its with the fallen angels where we get the root for all the perversions we find in the world today. Demons are filled with lusts and desires that can never be satisfied. On the other hand.. God's angels in Heaven have peace within themselves. They no more need marriage than a ecstatically happy child needs marriage.
You cannot just invent ideas and claim they are Biblical.
The passage does not tell you which category the angels are in. You should refrain from claiming things that are not stated.

No idea what celibacy has to do with our bodies in eternity.

As far as who was celibate, if you have no scripture telling you this, you really should stop making statements that you cannot support from specific scripture.

I suggest you bring it in a little. Stay out of your imagination, and stick to scripture.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
You cannot just invent ideas and claim they are Biblical.
The passage does not tell you which category the angels are in. You should refrain from claiming things that are not stated.

One thing we can know. Certain angels in Genesis 6 were not free from desire for as female. . The flood of Noah testified to this truth.

And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more
and more in knowledge and depth of insight." Philippians 1:9


Insight from Scripture is deducted from what is openly revealed.

But, the insight itself is not plainly revealed. Insight is a gift from God. A reward for enduring and faithfully growing in grace and truth.

To understand an insight, it may require growth in one's understanding before it can be grasped.

For now? Just keep an open mind, and leave it be. No one is demanding that you must accept it today.


But be always growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
To him be glory both now and forever! Amen." 2 Pet 3:18

Just keep growing and learning.

grace and peace......
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
One thing we can know. Certain angels in Genesis 6 were not free from desire for as female. . The flood of Noah testified to this truth.

And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more
and more in knowledge and depth of insight." Philippians 1:9


Insight from Scripture is deducted from what is openly revealed.

But, the insight itself is not plainly revealed. Insight is a gift from God. A reward for enduring and faithfully growing in grace and truth.

To understand an insight, it may require growth in one's understanding before it can be grasped.

For now? Just keep an open mind, and leave it be. No one is demanding that you must accept it today.

But be always growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
To him be glory both now and forever! Amen." 2 Pet 3:18

Just keep growing and learning.

grace and peace......
Son, how old are you? You sound young in age and young in the Bible. You exhibit the ego and impatience of the young.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
You are being evasive and disingenuous now... I made the point. Now you want to move the target with the bullseye hit spot on.

I do not know why you people come here just to see how you can obfuscate and divert. Those who hunger for truth would never be that way, even if they disagreed with what was said.

Its become personal when you make such objections (which was not founded) after I addressed what was said.

Here again is what you said, and I addressed.



Its flesh and BLOOD that can not inherit! The resurrected Jesus had flesh and bone. No blood! He went to Heaven flesh and bone. Careful how you read! One little word missed can change the entire meaning.
I have had many conversations about flesh and bone versus flesh and blood. They mean the same thing: human.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Your advice to me "Just keep growing and learning."
It is good advice, but misplaced coming from a young man to an older.
so...That's what got you.

We are all commanded that. Why are you to be the one who is excluded from needing to grow in grace and knowledge?
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
I have had many conversations about flesh and bone versus flesh and blood. They mean the same thing: human.
You are are adding to the Word of God. It only says one thing in that regard...

I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom
of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 1 Corinthians 15:50​

Jesus after his resurrection told doubting Thomas that he had become living flesh and bones. No longer flesh and blood.

He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds?
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not
have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” Luke 24:38-39​

If you want top keep missing these things, that's up to you.

Hopefully someone else who's not too old to learn will benefit from this just the same.
 

e v e

Super Member
Sons of God
Romans 8:19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God
yes. Sons. Genuine sons... what adam Lost.

restored to eden nature lost by the fall.

- fallen nature perishes forever. It was never His.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
You are are adding to the Word of God. It only says one thing in that regard...

I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom
of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 1 Corinthians 15:50​

Jesus after his resurrection told doubting Thomas that he had become living flesh and bones. No longer flesh and blood.

He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds?
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not
have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” Luke 24:38-39​

If you want top keep missing these things, that's up to you.

Hopefully someone else who's not too old to learn will benefit from this just the same.
In the Bible there is no such thing as flesh and bone without blood. If something is alive it always has all three, There is no precedent in the Bible for there to be flesh and blood without bone, or flesh and bone without blood.
Do a search, there are 10 verses where flesh and bone are mentioned without blood, but it is about humans, Blood does not have to be mentioned for us to know it is there.
 
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Sethproton

Well-known member
yes. Sons. Genuine sons... what adam Lost.

restored to eden nature lost by the fall.

- fallen nature perishes forever. It was never His.
Your use of languagae while seemingly Biblical, strikes me as representing something foreign to the Bible
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
In the Bible there is no such thing as flesh and bone without blood. If something is alive it always has all three, There is no precedent in the Bible for there to be flesh and blood without bone, or flesh and bone without blood.
Do a search, there are 10 verses where flesh and bone are mentioned without blood, but it is about humans, Blood does not have to be mentioned for us to know it is there.


Just the same... We are going to have a heavenly body with a type of flesh we now do not know.


But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.
Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another
and fish another. There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor
of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another." 1 Cor 15:38-40

Grace and peace young man..... how old are you?
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Just the same... We are going to have a heavenly body with a type of flesh we now do not know.


But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.
Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another
and fish another. There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor
of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another." 1 Cor 15:38-40

Grace and peace young man.....
That does not say our new bodies will be flesh,
Are you basing that on Jesus's appearances.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
That does not say our new bodies will be flesh,
Are you basing that on Jesus's appearances.
You keep thinking flesh means only one thing.

Paul tells us that there are all kinds of flesh. Some, even heavenly.


But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.
Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another
and fish another. There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor
of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another." 1 Cor 15:38-40


By the way. I am 72 years old.

Its not how old you are. Its how God has renewed your inner man that counts.

God can not renew areas where He (God's Word) is not allowed access.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
You keep thinking flesh means only one thing.

Paul tells us that there are all kinds of flesh. Some, even heavenly.


But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.
Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another
and fish another. There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor
of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another." 1 Cor 15:38-40


By the way. I am 72 years old.

Its not how old you are. Its how God has renewed your inner man that counts.

God can not renew areas where He (God's Word) is not allowed access.
Apologies. You and I are the same age, I misread what you were doing as impetuous.

also, I see that you are misreading scripture,
Paul is indeed comparing the flesh of different types of earthly creatures, but then he compares the bodies of different kinds of stars, He is not claiming that stars have flesh. he is only telling us that there are a variety of types of bodies so that we can grasp that our new bodies will not be the same as our current bodies.
In Greek there are two different words flesh sarx and body soma.
 
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GeneZ

Well-known member
Apologies. You and I are the same age, I misread what you were doing as impetuous.

also, I see that you are misreading scripture,
Paul is indeed comparing the flesh of different types of earthly creatures, but then he compares the bodies of different kinds of stars, He is not claiming that stars have flesh. he is only telling us that there are a variety of types of bodies so that we can grasp that our new bodies will not be the same as our current bodies.
In Greek there are two different words flesh sarx and body soma.
There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor
of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another." 1 Cor 15:38-40

Do we have earthy bodies as stars??????

Sarx is now used as a theological term, because that is where the sin nature resides in humans. Hence.. "Do not walk after the "flesh."

Body -soma- is a general term that can apply to any creature with a body. Bears do not have a sin nature, but we all have bodies of flesh. Man is fallen. No need to speak of animals in terms of their flesh.

Paul was saying that bodies of the earth are of one kind, and bodies from Heaven are of another kind of body. You? You just said that there are heavenly bodies (stars)... But, what do you do with the ones Paul spoke of as being earthly bodies? Do we have little stars floating around our heads on earth? Or, do we dig holes down deep and use a flash light to see earthly stars?

Come on!

Why make it so complex when its very simple?

You were just never shown why the term "flesh" was used for theological reasons...


Romans 6:12-19a​
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present
yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of
righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under
law but under grace.
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s
slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form
of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves
of righteousness. I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh.



Earthly body = Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body.

Sin nature = I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh.



On another point?

Why should Paul suddenly switch to stars? When just prior, he spoke of all different kinds of flesh of creatures? Makes no sense that way. Paul was working on a theme.
 
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