What are we after death?

Sethproton

Well-known member
There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor
of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another." 1 Cor 15:38-40

Do we have earthy bodies as stars??????

Sarx is now used as a theological term, because that is where the sin nature resides in humans. Hence.. "Do not walk after the "flesh."

Body -soma- is a general term that can apply to any creature with a body. Bears do not have a sin nature, but we all have bodies of flesh. Man is fallen. No need to speak of animals in terms of their flesh.

Paul was saying that bodies of the earth are of one kind, and bodies from Heaven are of another kind of body. You? You just said that there are heavenly bodies (stars)... But, what do you do with the ones Paul spoke of as being earthly bodies? Do we have little stars floating around our heads on earth? Or, do we dig holes down deep and use a flash light to see earthly stars?

Come on!

Why make it so complex when its very simple?

You were just never shown why the term "flesh" was used for theological reasons...


Romans 6:12-19a​
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present
yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of
righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under
law but under grace.
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s
slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form
of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves
of righteousness. I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh.



Earthly body = Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body.

Sin nature = I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh.



On another point?

Why should Paul suddenly switch to stars? When just prior, he spoke of all different kinds of flesh of creatures? Makes no sense that way. Paul was working on a theme.
well thanks for the chat.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
You will be held responsible for what you were shown. We all will be....
It is true that we are told the truth by God and so are without excuse.
But unfortunately, you are hard to follow in a conversation, so i have given up twice already. But what an ego you have that you think me being frustrated with your communication skills means I have given up on God.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
It is true that we are told the truth by God and so are without excuse.
But unfortunately, you are hard to follow in a conversation, so i have given up twice already. But what an ego you have that you think me being frustrated with your communication skills means I have given up on God.
You have not given up on God.

You have given up in God giving you thinking that is beyond your natural accepted way of thinking.

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9

God has communication skill problems too.
 

e v e

Super Member
the current body we have is sin nature and an abomination.

it is not the body of man and human being in eden.

adm-human in eden had a glorified body, and that is what we will be restored to.

the current body is a corruption. the fall had consequences to creation,
including cosmological and physical ones.

He showed me this and, further, scripture confirms what He shows me.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
the current body we have is sin nature and an abomination.

it is not the body of man and human being in eden.

adm-human in eden had a glorified body, and that is what we will be restored to.

the current body is a corruption. the fall had consequences to creation,
including cosmological and physical ones.
He showed me this and, further, scripture confirms what He shows me.
There is nothing in the Word teaching that Adam had a glorified body. For that matter there is no teaching in the Bible that specifically mentions "glorified body" I know people use the term based on an understanding they have, but in Eden, there is nothing to suggest Adam's body went thru any change. It was just flesh and all flesh is the same.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
You have not given up on God.

You have given up in God giving you thinking that is beyond your natural accepted way of thinking.

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9

God has communication skill problems too.
Have you ever heard the word "dingbat"?
It was my father's affectionate term for me and my brothers
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Like most things in Eschatoloy - "nobody Knows". But that doesn't stop folks from worthlessly discussing it.
Some discussion is based on the scriptural details we have, which i find worthwhile, But there are discussions among friends about what heaven will be like and what we will be like that are enjoyable even if not standing on a doctrinal foundation.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Some discussion is based on the scriptural details we have, which i find worthwhile, But there are discussions among friends about what heaven will be like and what we will be like that are enjoyable even if not standing on a doctrinal foundation.
But essentially worthless since they're nothing but hot air, based on ignorance.
 

Berserk

Member
Bible scholars agree that the Bible does not teach a tripartite anthropology. Neither the Hebrew nephesh nor the Greek psyche mean "soul" in the popular sense of the term. What needs to be recognized is that traditional Judaism viewed body and soul as inseparable such that the soul cannot survive death without a body. So when the OT eventually develops a belief in life after death, that belief is expressed in terms of bodily resurrection at the last judgment (Daniel 12:2-3). But then through Hellenistic influence various notions of the mechanism of postmortem survival crept into intertestamental Jewish thought that replaced soul sleep in Sheol with immediate conscious awareness after death. This new understanding creates a sympathetic ear for Jesus' teaching that the righteous survive, fully conscious at death (see Mark 12:26-27; Luke 23:42-43; John 11:26). Deceased martyrs in heaven are now able to engage in intercessory prayer (Revelation 6:;9-10).

The problem here is the apparent development of Paul's thought from the traditional Jewish view (1 Thess. 4-15-17; 1 Cor. 15:51-52) to the belief that we are not a "naked" soul at death, but rather survive with our spirit bodies, fully conscious (Phil. 1:23; 2 Cor. 5:1-10). This shift apparently makes belief in a bodily resurrection at the Last Judgment obsolete, unless that bodily resurrection is necessary to bring us back to life on "a new earth" (Rev. 21:1).
 

e v e

Super Member
The terms psuche and npsh are not interchangeable.

And neither is the body adam had in eden of the type we have now.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
The terms psuche and npsh are not interchangeable.

And neither is the body adam had in eden of the type we have now.
I would guess you have a source outside the Bible that tells you Adam's body was different than ours.
Where do you read that?
 

e v e

Super Member
I would guess you have a source outside the Bible that tells you Adam's body was different than ours.
Where do you read that?
No I don’t use the bible, since those are translations. I use an interlinear to read the actual chapters of scripture, the closest originals we have, throughout the OT including genesis.

Reading contextually, what He says, this is the result: the current type of body is not the eden body. The current body is the effect of sin... corrupted.

Reading an interlinear and comparing the closest original texts of scripture, literal transliterations etc. I use scripture4all.org. A page there gives the transliteration method and its quite strict. Terms and clusters of terms must be studied. Words such as image, body, dust, soul.

The term npsh for example in hebrew is the same word for soul and body : a living being.

adam was npsh not a ‘soul’ plus a ‘body’.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
No I don’t use the bible, since those are translations. I use an interlinear to read the actual chapters of scripture, the closest originals we have, throughout the OT including genesis.

Reading contextually, what He says, this is the result: the current type of body is not the eden body. The current body is the effect of sin... corrupted.

Reading an interlinear and comparing the closest original texts of scripture, literal transliterations etc. I use scripture4all.org. A page there gives the transliteration method and its quite strict. Terms and clusters of terms must be studied. Words such as image, body, dust, soul.

The term npsh for example in hebrew is the same word for soul and body : a living being.

adam was npsh not a ‘soul’ plus a ‘body’.
But you have nothing to show your claim of a changed body?
 

e v e

Super Member
But you have nothing to show your claim of a changed body?
contextually it’s shown in the OT.
I could not convince you, only you can find out, by studying the chapters. Yes I could again lay it out. I have on carm old forums. But that does no good. What will convince you is to find out for yourself by asking God’s help and re-studying the terms and lines and chapters in this context.
 

e v e

Super Member
the entire context of scripture shows it, when terms and lines and chapters are properly translated.
 
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