What believers in God refers to and denotes.

[Tiburon]

So what? Believers still believe that the truth, existence, consciousness, logic, morality, reality and a Believing Mind itself Originated in and with God.

So what, so what?
Now you are adding to the original claim. "a Believing Mind itself Originated in and with God." This is what people don't accept.
Where is your proof of this?

You say "Believers". You are the only one. I haven't come across anyone else who makes this claim or agrees with your argument.

 

[Tiburon]

edit

How can you be wrong? Quite easily.
You are equating "real beliefs in reality" to beliefs that are true. You are wrong.
It is still you who is making themselves "look rather foolish".

 

[mikeT]

What believers in God refers to and denotes​

Anyone who is moderately fluent in English already knows what "believers in God" refers to and denotes. This is because all of them are familiar with the English dictionary, and already know the definition of the words in the sentence.

For example, "believers in God" refers to people who accept as true the idea that the deity from one of the major mono-theistic (generally western) religions exists.

That's all. That's what the words mean in English, and thus that's the phrase means.

It does not refer to or denote people who "believe that the truth, existence, consciousness, logic, morality, reality and ONLY a Believing Mind can make these things known to occur and exist". Anyone who'd assert otherwise is not fluent in the English language. Some of the people who post here like to think they can redefine words as they want to. The rest of us will simply shake our heads, and correct their mistakes.

 

[Tiburon]

Strawman and projection.

I believe 'real beliefs in reality' are ONLY justified true belief in reality = knowledge.

I know you believe that. That's an example of "false beliefs".

I am not the one who believes that "false beliefs" and "unjustified beliefs" are real belief in reality.

No. And that is why you are wrong,
Repeating it a million times wont make you right.

 

[Tercon]

I know you believe that. That's an example of "false beliefs".

Okay. Then say why believing it is ONLY justified true beliefs that are beliefs in reality = knowledge, what's wrong with this belief?

No. And that is why you are wrong, Repeating it a million times wont make you right.

Please explain why I am "wrong" because I don't believe "false beliefs" or "unjustified beliefs" are beliefs in reality.

 

[TeabagSalad]

Please explain why I am "wrong" because I don't believe "false beliefs" or "unjustified beliefs" are beliefs in reality.

Because beliefs can be false and/or unjustified - by DEFINITION!

 

[Tiburon]

Okay. Then say why believing it is ONLY justified true beliefs that are beliefs in reality = knowledge, what's wrong with this belief?
Please explain why I am "wrong" because I don't believe "false beliefs" or "unjustified beliefs" are beliefs in reality.

What is wrong with it is that you are equating belief and knowledge. They are not the same. Not all beliefs are knowledge.
Knowledge is a subset of beliefs.

As someone said in one of these threads you could swap 'belief' with 'opinion'. Are all opinions true?

You are wrong about "false beliefs" or "unjustified beliefs" because in reality they are still beliefs.
It's in the name. "false beliefs". "unjustified beliefs"

 

[Tercon]

What is wrong with it is that you are equating belief and knowledge. They are not the same. Not all beliefs are knowledge. Knowledge is a subset of beliefs.

Strawman. But all knowledge of the truth and reality is belief based without exception.

And if it is only justified true beliefs that are knowledge and all knowledge of the truth and reality justified true beliefs. And all justified true beliefs are still beliefs and define knowledge, then belief must be a form of knowledge.

As someone said in one of these threads you could swap 'belief' with 'opinion'. Are all opinions true?

You are wrong about "false beliefs" or "unjustified beliefs" because in reality they are still beliefs.
It's in the name. "false beliefs". "unjustified beliefs"

Why don't they call it justified true opinions then?

Actually it's in the name. "false beliefs" and "unjustified beliefs" that informs of the truth.

 

[FCP]

Believers in God just believe that the truth, existence, consciousness, logic, morality, reality and ONLY a Believing Mind can make these things known to occur and exist. And arguing against anything else is just a strawman.

Believers in God just believe ...

Enough said, case setlled. Keep on believing whatever you deem believable.

 

[Tiburon]

Strawman. But all knowledge of the truth and reality is belief based without exception.

And if it is only justified true beliefs that are knowledge and all knowledge of the truth and reality justified true beliefs. And all justified true beliefs are still beliefs and define knowledge, then belief must be a form of knowledge.

No, knowledge must be a form of belief.

Why don't they call it justified true opinions then?

Actually it's in the name. "false beliefs" and "unjustified beliefs" that informs of the truth.

Because opinion has other connotations.

Yes, beliefs that have the quality of being false and beliefs that have the quality of being unjustified.
Just as knowledge is beliefs that have the qualities of being Justified and being true.
They are all still beliefs.

 

[Tercon]

No, knowledge must be a form of belief.

If belief is necessary in order to make the truth and reality known, then all knowledge of truth and reality must be belief based.

Because opinion has other connotations.

So they don't call it justified true opinions because belief and opinion have differing "connotations". Like I said, they have different meanings.

Yes, beliefs that have the quality of being false and beliefs that have the quality of being unjustified.

You mean like being "false" and not relating to the truth or reality.

Just as knowledge is beliefs that have the qualities of being Justified and being true.

Like beliefs in reality.

They are all still beliefs.

But they all aren't beliefs in reality are they.

 

[Tercon]

Believers in God just believe ...

Enough said, case setlled. Keep on believing whatever you deem believable.

Actually believers believe in accord with God; they know how God is God. The word 'God' denotes something they know to exist.

 

[Tercon]

Because beliefs can be false and/or unjustified - by DEFINITION!

But if they have no connection with the truth, then how can they be known to exist in reality?

"False belief" denote the same thing as unbelief, "false beliefs" and unbelief both only describe the lack of what is needed to be known to exist in reality. You are just demonstrating what it is to have a unbelieving mind, you think that "false beliefs" and unbelief exist in reality, but in reality they have no means by which to be known to exist in reality.

 

[TeabagSalad]

But if they have no connection with the truth, then how can they be known to exist in reality?

"False belief" denote the same thing as unbelief, "false beliefs" and unbelief both only describe the lack of what is needed to be known to exist in reality. You are just demonstrating what it is to have a unbelieving mind, you think that "false beliefs" and unbelief exist in reality, but in reality they have no means by which to be known to exist in reality.

You could save yourself a lot of bother if you learned what belief actually is.

 

[Tiburon]

If belief is necessary in order to make the truth and reality known, then all knowledge of truth and reality must be belief based.

No, knowledge is Truth based.

So they don't call it justified true opinions because belief and opinion have differing "connotations". Like I said, they have different meanings.

Yes. Just as knowledge and belief have different meanings.

You mean like being "false" and not relating to the truth or reality.

No. Like being related to ideas about truth and reality but being wrong.
So, false as in not true, not false as in fake.

Like beliefs in reality.

Like some beliefs in reality that are true and justified but not like other beliefs in reality that are not true and not justified.

But they all aren't beliefs in reality are they.

Yes they are. If someone sincerely holds to an idea, and accepts it as being the case in reality, that is a belief.
It doesn't matter if they are right or wrong. If they believe it, It is a belief.

 

[FCP]

Actually believers believe in accord with God; they know how God is God. The word 'God' denotes something they know to exist.

Believe is believe - you may belief whatever you want.
Believe is not Knowledge.
The word God denotes God, not something else.

 

[Tercon]

Believe is believe - you may belief whatever you want.

Really? YOU can believe "whatever you want"?

Believe is not Knowledge.

If we believe; 'Trump was president in 2019' this "is not knowledge"?

The word God denotes God, not something else.

Actually God denotes the logical truth, consciousness, existence, morality, reality and the Original Believing Mind that IT all inherently came.

 

[mikeT]

Actually God denotes the logical truth, consciousness, existence, morality, reality and the Original Believing Mind that IT all inherently came.

Actually that's just your opinion

... and no one else's. Not even Christians agree with this nonsense.

 

[FCP]

Really? YOU can believe "whatever you want"?



If we believe; 'Trump was president in 2019' this "is not knowledge"?



Actually God denotes the logical truth, consciousness, existence, morality, reality and the Original Believing Mind that IT all inherently came.

You know the difference between belief and knowledge, right? “Trump was President in 2019” is more than belief, it is JTB, a justified true belief, which we then define as knowledge. Therefore we know that belief is not sufficient to be equal to knowledge.

You statement about a God are your personal beliefs and have nothing to with knowledge.

 

[Tercon]

You know the difference between belief and knowledge, right? “Trump was President in 2019” is more than belief, it is JTB, a justified true belief, which we then define as knowledge. Therefore we know that belief is not sufficient to be equal to knowledge.

Actually in reality justified true belief are still beliefs and they also define knowledge, because belief is what makes the truth and reality known to the one believing it. Are you pretending that justified true beliefs aren't real beliefs and that "false beliefs are real beliefs"?

You statement about a God are your personal beliefs and have nothing to with knowledge.

Strawman. No, actually it is because the logical truth, consciousness, existence, morality, reality and belief itself exist and is the result of a Believing Mind, because in no other way or place can these things be known to occur and exist but a believing mind.