Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Eph 2:8,9 disagrees.Salvation, therefore, is works based.
Eph 2:8,9 disagrees.Salvation, therefore, is works based.
Logic agrees. Which tells me, that you don't understand Eph at all.Eph 2:8,9 disagrees.
that is a load manmade decrees to make their " followers " fearful of them..Often, Mormons are judged by having a high bar of requirements needed for "salvation".
To Christians I ask, what commandments are being referred to in this verse?
And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments - 1 John 2:3
In other words, at what point can I look at a commandment and say "Nah, I don't need to keep this one."
Or, "I'd feel guilty if I was ACTUALLY expected to keep the commandment of (fill in the blank)."
"There's no way I can keep the commandment of (fill in the blank)."
Shall we continue still in sin, that grace may abound? Roman 6:1
For Mormons, the only real encompassing commandment required for eternal life is enduring in faith in Jesus Christ by taking upon His name. And if you have real faith, all other necessary commandments will be kept, and by so doing, the Holy Ghost will give us further guidance.
2 Ne 31:
14 But, behold, my beloved brethren, thus came the voice of the Son unto me, saying: After ye have repented of your sins, and witnessed unto the Father that ye are willing to keep my commandments, by the baptism of water, and have received the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost, and can speak with a new tongue, yea, even with the tongue of angels, and after this should deny me, it would have been better for you that ye had not known me.
15 And I heard a voice from the Father, saying: Yea, the words of my Beloved are true and faithful. He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.
16 And now, my beloved brethren, I know by this that unless a man shall endure to the end, in following the example of the Son of the living God, he cannot be saved.
17 Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.
18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.
19 And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save.
20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.
And I imagine some will ask "Well, what about temple ordinances?"
And I would reply that's a fulfillment of prophecy (Micah 4:1-2) and "going on to perfection" (Heb 6:1). And by "perfection" I'm NOT referring to being "sinless", but rather complete, full grown, and fully embracing the entirety of Christ's character - essentially resulting in Charity (1 Cor. 13). Learning and Covenanting to laws of Obedience, Sacrifice, the Gospel, Chastity, and Consecration help us do that.
nah, the work has already been done and finished as the Messiah declared already before His death.Logic agrees. Which tells me, that you don't understand Eph at all.
ONE of us doesn't, for sure. WHO CARES about "theological logic"??? All God's Chilluns gots "theologies".Logic agrees. Which tells me, that you don't understand Eph at all.
Logic agrees. Which tells me, that you don't understand Eph at all.
Often, Mormons are judged by having a high bar of requirements needed for "salvation".
To Christians I ask, what commandments are being referred to in this verse?
And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments - 1 John 2:3
In other words, at what point can I look at a commandment and say "Nah, I don't need to keep this one."
Shall we continue still in sin, that grace may abound? Roman 6:1
For Mormons, the only real encompassing commandment required for eternal life is enduring in faith in Jesus Christ by taking upon His name. And if you have real faith, all other necessary commandments will be kept, and by so doing, the Holy Ghost will give us further guidance.
Wow! That is called hitting the nail on the head, as the saying goes.ONE of us doesn't, for sure. WHO CARES about "theological logic"??? All God's Chilluns gots "theologies".
SInce all your "Righteousness", is nothing but "Filthy RAGS" (Isa 64:6) in God's sight. how it is possible that you salvation could be based on them???? It couldn't matter less what your "Logic" claims.
Perfect obedience of Christ himself.Often, Mormons are judged by having a high bar of requirements needed for "salvation".
To Christians I ask, what commandments are being referred to in this verse?
And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments - 1 John 2:3
In other words, at what point can I look at a commandment and say "Nah, I don't need to keep this one."
Or, "I'd feel guilty if I was ACTUALLY expected to keep the commandment of (fill in the blank)."
"There's no way I can keep the commandment of (fill in the blank)."
Shall we continue still in sin, that grace may abound? Roman 6:1
For Mormons, the only real encompassing commandment required for eternal life is enduring in faith in Jesus Christ by taking upon His name. And if you have real faith, all other necessary commandments will be kept, and by so doing, the Holy Ghost will give us further guidance.
2 Ne 31:
14 But, behold, my beloved brethren, thus came the voice of the Son unto me, saying: After ye have repented of your sins, and witnessed unto the Father that ye are willing to keep my commandments, by the baptism of water, and have received the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost, and can speak with a new tongue, yea, even with the tongue of angels, and after this should deny me, it would have been better for you that ye had not known me.
15 And I heard a voice from the Father, saying: Yea, the words of my Beloved are true and faithful. He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.
16 And now, my beloved brethren, I know by this that unless a man shall endure to the end, in following the example of the Son of the living God, he cannot be saved.
17 Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.
18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.
19 And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save.
20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.
And I imagine some will ask "Well, what about temple ordinances?"
And I would reply that's a fulfillment of prophecy (Micah 4:1-2) and "going on to perfection" (Heb 6:1). And by "perfection" I'm NOT referring to being "sinless", but rather complete, full grown, and fully embracing the entirety of Christ's character - essentially resulting in Charity (1 Cor. 13). Learning and Covenanting to laws of Obedience, Sacrifice, the Gospel, Chastity, and Consecration help us do that.
they are just another cult and all cults omit the 2 basic teachings of Gods Word through His Son.. These 2 are, both, Salvation and Healing.Perfect obedience of Christ himself.
Our acts of obedience may be worth filthy rags in God's sight, but to the individuals striving to be better they are considered precious gems by which we know God's grace is working through us.ONE of us doesn't, for sure. WHO CARES about "theological logic"??? All God's Chilluns gots "theologies".
SInce all your "Righteousness", is nothing but "Filthy RAGS" (Isa 64:6) in God's sight. how it is possible that you salvation could be based on them???? It couldn't matter less what your "Logic" claims.
WHO CARES what that moronic collection of garbage teaches???The Doctrine and Covenants clearly teaches
Obviously, not you all.ONE of us doesn't, for sure. WHO CARES about "theological logic"???
I tell you what, why don't you tell me the difference between the works of v 9 and the works of v 10? Correlate those with the works mentioned in v 11. The very fact that you stopped at v 9 tells me you all don't understand eph 2 at all.Okay... So if you think you understand Eph. so well, and you claim we "don't understand Eph at all", then why don't YOU exegete the passage for us, and explain to us what YOU think it means, and then we can discuss it.
I couldn't have said it better myself. I believe Orthodox Christians also believe this, but they insist that it's not necessary, important, but not necessary. The difference between our theology and theirs is that we believe it is necessary and important. In fact, its necessity is to the point that if one doesn't strive, one cannot be saved.Our acts of obedience may be worth filthy rags in God's sight, but to the individuals striving to be better they are considered precious gems by which we know God's grace is working through us.
I tell you what, why don't you tell me the difference between the works of v 9 and the works of v 10? Correlate those with the works mentioned in v 11. The very fact that you stopped at v 9 tells me you all don't understand eph 2 at all.
I tell you what, why don't you tell me the difference between the works of v 9 and the works of v 10? Correlate those with the works mentioned in v 11. The very fact that you stopped at v 9 tells me you all don't understand eph 2 at all.
BY GEORGE!!! I think He's got it!!!Obviously, not you all.![]()
I couldn't have said it better myself. I believe Orthodox Christians also believe this, but they insist that it's not necessary, important, but not necessary. The difference between our theology and theirs is that we believe it is necessary and important. In fact, its necessity is to the point that if one doesn't strive, one cannot be saved.
I tell you what, why don't you tell me the difference between the works of v 9 and the works of v 10? Correlate those with the works mentioned in v 11. The very fact that you stopped at v 9 tells me you all don't understand eph 2 at all.
I don't see you explaining anything.Thank you for proving that Mormons HATE explaining what Scripture actually means, and DON'T UNDERSTAND what Scripture really means.
Over and over again, Mormons REFUSE to share what they believe, and constantly try to derail threads to talk about what "Christians" believe, because they are EMBARRASSED to try to defend bankrupt Mormonism.
If you want to continue after vv. 8-9 with v.10, or even, 11, 12, or ever go to 18 or further, you are perfectly free to do so.