What degree of obedience qualifies for salvation?

Theo1689

Well-known member
If that is true, the whole Bible is rigged against our critics.

I'm not sure how that follows (translation: It doesn't, at all), but if you want to try to explain how it allegedly does, you're free to try.

No.... Seriously? Does knowing him also occur prior to knowing him?

Again, this is the MORMONISM forum.
The forum is for MORMONS to answer questions.

Why can't you answer the question?

I never said I couldn't.
If you want to ask Christians questions, do so in a Christian sub-forum.
This is the MORMONISM forum, and is for MORMONS to answer questions.

Why do you keep dodging?
 

Nic

Well-known member
If that were possible, there would be no need of the atonement.
I think we strive to obey all of God's commandments, but the only commandment we can keep consistently is to have faith.
Except of course it was never on the table for us to obey so that we can be our own saviors.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
If that were possible, there would be no need of the atonement.

So you're saying that people are saved merely because they can "possibly" obey the commandments, and they don't actually have to do so?

I think we strive to obey all of God's commandments, but the only commandment we can keep consistently is to have faith.

Maybe you need Christ, then?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nic

Aaron32

Well-known member
So, you're just going to ignore the verse and pretend it doesn't exist?
BoJ - Can I just have a convo without you butting in and stirring up contention?
Kr0wjX.gif
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
Except of course it was never on the table for us to obey so that we can be our own saviors.
Who said anything about being our own Saviors? What are you looking at that would lead you to this conclusion about Mormon beliefs? Wouldn't the need for faith be eliminated if we could save ourselves?
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
No. I'm my mother's caretaker. I'm tired much of the time and my mom has my 24hr 7day week after week care and I have been having my own issues of late. We are generally awake all night. So as I said I'm tired. If I get to it, I get to it. I still try to be reasonable and civil. Thank you for your reply.
Nic, I can empathize with you. I was my father’s full-time caregiver for 18 years. It takes a huge toll on you. Please get someone to help you with her, and take care of yourself. You and your mom are in my prayers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nic

Nic

Well-known member
Nic, I can empathize with you. I was my father’s full-time caregiver for 18 years. It takes a huge toll on you. Please get someone to help you with her, and take care of yourself. You and your mom are in my prayers.
We had home health. They seem to have an agenda with exception of a few, it was way too much drama. But thank you. I do have a few to call on so I can run errands, but largely it's me.
 

Nic

Well-known member
Who said anything about being our own Saviors? What are you looking at that would lead you to this conclusion about Mormon beliefs? Wouldn't the need for faith be eliminated if we could save ourselves?
You said we wouldn't need the atonement in such a circumstance, so the conclusion I made was you did, even if you didn't realize it. Look at Theo's response to you he too drew a similar conclusion to your answer as I did.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
If that were possible, there would be no need of the atonement.
I have to wonder what you think "all of them" is. Jesus was quite clear that the rich man was just fine. I think he kept all of them, in fact, he said he did and Jesus saw no issue with what he said. What he asked for was on par for an individual who would not need the atonement. It's clear from the Savior's response to his disciple's dispair, who could be saved? His response, with God, nothing is impossible. It is interesting that in one telling of the event, we get an additional view of an equally impossible situation, that of marriage and never ever getting a divorce. Clearly, most men who get married are committing adultery because there are a LOT of divorces in the world and they may not even know it. Who then can be saved?

So, we have two bad situations here. Almost no one is going to give they have to the poor and follow Christ and almost every marriage relationship is nd adulterous one.
I think we strive to obey all of God's commandments, but the only commandment we can keep consistently is to have faith.
Well, that's a very born-again idea. As long as you have faith, you can beat a person's brains out and you'll be fine. Clearly, that doesn't make any sense.

I appreciate your question on this subject, but clearly, those who follow Christ must do something different than those who don't. Faith requires action. Without it, faith is dead. So, the natural follow on question, is how does one demonstrate sufficient faith to be able to lay claim on the promises?
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
BoJ - Can I just have a convo without you butting in and stirring up contention?
Not in a public forum you can't.

1 John 2:3 "And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments." demands that we keep his commandments.

I'm not "butting in" for grins and giggles. This is a difficult subject to understand. It is probably the most widely misapplied doctrine among our critics and within our church. Depending on the direction the wind is blowing, in our church, we have leaders saying God will take care of everything to if you fail on any point of doctrine, you will be damned. It was a favorite of leaders like Brigham Young, Joseph Fielding Smith, Bruce R McConkie, etc. But neither is true or factual.

Clearly, Jesus is able to dwell among the sinners whereas His Father, isn't. This is the reason why Jesus is our mediator with the Father. He can be both in our presence and in the presence of his Father. If he is to be a moderator, there must be something to moderate, so perfection is not required. The question is, what brings us into Christ's side of the courtroom where he will moderate for our sins which are many? Does Jesus have conditions that need to be met before that will happen? I believe he does.
 
Last edited:

Nic

Well-known member
Who said anything about being our own Saviors? What are you looking at that would lead you to this conclusion about Mormon beliefs? Wouldn't the need for faith be eliminated if we could save ourselves?
I'm not the one who suggested if we kept the law we wouldn't need the atonement.
 

rossh

Well-known member
Can you be more specific? What specifically was a man-made decree?
1 Cor 14:
As in all the congregations of God’s people, 34 let the wives remain silent when the congregation meets; they are certainly not permitted to speak out. Rather, let them remain subordinate, as also the Torah says; 35 and if there is something they want to know, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for a woman to speak out in a congregational meeting.

36 Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or is endowed with the Spirit, let him acknowledge that what I am writing you is a command of the Lord. 38 But if someone doesn’t recognize this, then let him remain unrecognized.

39 So, my brothers, eagerly seek to prophesy; and do not forbid speaking in tongues; 40 but let all things be done in a proper and orderly way.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
On the table, try 'guard' for the word 'keep' and see if it still means the same to you?
Why should I change it. This is the issue I have with our critics. When the scriptures do like what the scriptures say, they use their own words. Why would we guard his commandments? Guard them against whom or what?
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
D&C illuminates nothing since it's nothing but the religious ravings of an ignorant heretic.
Again, we have another critic who argues from the perspective of willful ignorance. This is about what we believe and if you're not willing to address what we believe then you really have no business being here. Assuming this is a discussion forum.
 
Top