What determines right behavior?

Say for instance like many believe, God doesn't exist or many believe that their is no God. With us all having free will, freedom of choice and it being relative to each person as to what they decide; what determines right behavior?

Some say we just know. Some say everything is okay as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. Some say the majority decides. Some say in the U.S. the constitution and the laws.

If we just know. Each person decides. Everything is okay or somethings are or not according to each person. And the majority of those who are on the same page decides, then would that ultimately mean who's is in power or has the power as in the majority is the group that decides?

If true than does that mean power is now the God? Because power decides what is okay behavior or not. Power is what decides right or wrong.

If not power than what decides when one group of people don't agree with another? If going by laws, then who decides the laws if not the group that has the most power? The majority have the most votes would be the power of the people who voted the same way.

Many people can have a different view for what is right behavior and each one may think they're right. Now someone may say that each one is right. How about when it comes to things like accountable, responsibility and the law? Then everyone can't be right. Then could it be then that power is the determining factor? Someone may say that what is right behavior and what the law say are two different things, then that would mean when a parent teaches their child what is right behavior they have to teach what is the law and what is right behavior if they are different.
 

Ficciones

Active member
What determines the content of religious scripture? What determines whose religious scripture is superior?
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
Say for instance like many believe, God doesn't exist or many believe that their is no God. With us all having free will, freedom of choice and it being relative to each person as to what they decide; what determines right behavior?

Some say we just know. Some say everything is okay as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. Some say the majority decides. Some say in the U.S. the constitution and the laws.

If we just know. Each person decides. Everything is okay or somethings are or not according to each person. And the majority of those who are on the same page decides, then would that ultimately mean who's is in power or has the power as in the majority is the group that decides?

If true than does that mean power is now the God? Because power decides what is okay behavior or not. Power is what decides right or wrong.

If not power than what decides when one group of people don't agree with another? If going by laws, then who decides the laws if not the group that has the most power? The majority have the most votes would be the power of the people who voted the same way.

Many people can have a different view for what is right behavior and each one may think they're right. Now someone may say that each one is right. How about when it comes to things like accountable, responsibility and the law? Then everyone can't be right. Then could it be then that power is the determining factor? Someone may say that what is right behavior and what the law say are two different things, then that would mean when a parent teaches their child what is right behavior they have to teach what is the law and what is right behavior if they are different.
Depends on whether you mean morally right or legally right. If the former (which is what I suspect) then each person, influenced by their upbringing, education, and society.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Say for instance like many believe, God doesn't exist or many believe that their is no God. With us all having free will, freedom of choice and it being relative to each person as to what they decide; what determines right behavior?

Some say we just know. Some say everything is okay as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. Some say the majority decides. Some say in the U.S. the constitution and the laws.

If we just know. Each person decides. Everything is okay or somethings are or not according to each person. And the majority of those who are on the same page decides, then would that ultimately mean who's is in power or has the power as in the majority is the group that decides?

If true than does that mean power is now the God? Because power decides what is okay behavior or not. Power is what decides right or wrong.

If not power than what decides when one group of people don't agree with another? If going by laws, then who decides the laws if not the group that has the most power? The majority have the most votes would be the power of the people who voted the same way.

Many people can have a different view for what is right behavior and each one may think they're right. Now someone may say that each one is right. How about when it comes to things like accountable, responsibility and the law? Then everyone can't be right. Then could it be then that power is the determining factor? Someone may say that what is right behavior and what the law say are two different things, then that would mean when a parent teaches their child what is right behavior they have to teach what is the law and what is right behavior if they are different.
You are conflating morality, what each person thinks is right behaviour, and legality, what the state decrees is right behaviour. Most people will find that on some point or other their personal views conflict with the law. Whether it be abortion, or animal rights or same sex marriage or charitable status for churches, or whatever. Every individual has a number of options in this situation. They can put up with it and grumble. They can seek to change the law by motivating others to join them. They can refuse to obey the law. They can go and live elsewhere, where the law is more congenial. We will all have our sticking point where we could not in conscience continue to live in a country that allows/forbids X.

We can see from history that morality and laws have changed over time and from place to place. For some people not fast enough, for others too fast. You are right that the law is determined by those in power. In a democracy those people are elected, so ultimately it is the acquiescence of the majority that is important.

What drives changes in morality? Personally I think it is information. We are, if we want to be, incredibly well informed. We can truly see what is happening anywhere in the world, and take a view on its morality. This drives fashions in moral views, which will feed, imperfectly into laws. The only sure thing is that not everybody will be happy with every moral or legal decision.
 

Backup

Active member
Say for instance like many believe, God doesn't exist or many believe that their is no God. With us all having free will, freedom of choice and it being relative to each person as to what they decide; what determines right behavior?

Some say we just know. Some say everything is okay as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. Some say the majority decides. Some say in the U.S. the constitution and the laws.

If we just know. Each person decides. Everything is okay or somethings are or not according to each person. And the majority of those who are on the same page decides, then would that ultimately mean who's is in power or has the power as in the majority is the group that decides?

If true than does that mean power is now the God? Because power decides what is okay behavior or not. Power is what decides right or wrong.

If not power than what decides when one group of people don't agree with another? If going by laws, then who decides the laws if not the group that has the most power? The majority have the most votes would be the power of the people who voted the same way.

Many people can have a different view for what is right behavior and each one may think they're right. Now someone may say that each one is right. How about when it comes to things like accountable, responsibility and the law? Then everyone can't be right. Then could it be then that power is the determining factor? Someone may say that what is right behavior and what the law say are two different things, then that would mean when a parent teaches their child what is right behavior they have to teach what is the law and what is right behavior if they are different.
Bet we can all agree that murder and rape are less than desirable.

We can argue about pot legalization.

Basically it comes down to what helps or hurts human flourishing and happiness.

If we were talking medical stuff, we should all agree chopping off your head is bad for you, but eating fried foods is debatable.

I thought all this presuppositional apologetics was dead.
 
Bet we can all agree that murder and rape are less than desirable.

We can argue about pot legalization.

Basically it comes down to what helps or hurts human flourishing and happiness.

If we were talking medical stuff, we should all agree chopping off your head is bad for you, but eating fried foods is debatable.

I thought all this presuppositional apologetics was dead.
It's very much alive.
 

vibise

Active member
Say for instance like many believe, God doesn't exist or many believe that their is no God. With us all having free will, freedom of choice and it being relative to each person as to what they decide; what determines right behavior?

Some say we just know. Some say everything is okay as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. Some say the majority decides. Some say in the U.S. the constitution and the laws.

If we just know. Each person decides. Everything is okay or somethings are or not according to each person. And the majority of those who are on the same page decides, then would that ultimately mean who's is in power or has the power as in the majority is the group that decides?

If true than does that mean power is now the God? Because power decides what is okay behavior or not. Power is what decides right or wrong.

If not power than what decides when one group of people don't agree with another? If going by laws, then who decides the laws if not the group that has the most power? The majority have the most votes would be the power of the people who voted the same way.

Many people can have a different view for what is right behavior and each one may think they're right. Now someone may say that each one is right. How about when it comes to things like accountable, responsibility and the law? Then everyone can't be right. Then could it be then that power is the determining factor? Someone may say that what is right behavior and what the law say are two different things, then that would mean when a parent teaches their child what is right behavior they have to teach what is the law and what is right behavior if they are different.
When you are faced with a moral dilemma, do you open your Bible or call your pastor to determine what to do?
 

Backup

Active member
It's very much alive.
I would say it ended with the Matt Dillahunty, Sye Ten Bruggencate debate.

The whole Christian/new atheist dialogue got boring when the same, old handful of Christian “arguments“ got shot down thousands of times, and the whole thing became repetitive.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
Bet we can all agree that murder and rape are less than desirable.

We can argue about pot legalization.

Basically it comes down to what helps or hurts human flourishing and happiness.

If we were talking medical stuff, we should all agree chopping off your head is bad for you, but eating fried foods is debatable.

I thought all this presuppositional apologetics was dead.
How many millions killed by your atheist ringleaders and fundies?
 

Bob1

Active member
Show us your atheeist sacred writ.
Thanks for demonstrating yet again that you have no clue what atheism is or how it's defined... unless of course you actually know what atheism is and are just being deliberately and repeatedly deceptive in your characterization of atheism.
So, which is it... clueless or deliberately deceptive?
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
I would say it ended with the Matt Dillahunty, Sye Ten Bruggencate debate.
I'd say it ended when WLC decided to do something else. He left a bunch of apologists struggling with it, and a few Christian philosophy types to use it to sell books.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
Say for instance like many believe, God doesn't exist or many believe that their is no God. With us all having free will, freedom of choice and it being relative to each person as to what they decide; what determines right behavior?

Some say we just know. Some say everything is okay as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. Some say the majority decides. Some say in the U.S. the constitution and the laws.

If we just know. Each person decides. Everything is okay or somethings are or not according to each person. And the majority of those who are on the same page decides, then would that ultimately mean who's is in power or has the power as in the majority is the group that decides?

If true than does that mean power is now the God? Because power decides what is okay behavior or not. Power is what decides right or wrong.

If not power than what decides when one group of people don't agree with another? If going by laws, then who decides the laws if not the group that has the most power? The majority have the most votes would be the power of the people who voted the same way.

Many people can have a different view for what is right behavior and each one may think they're right. Now someone may say that each one is right. How about when it comes to things like accountable, responsibility and the law? Then everyone can't be right. Then could it be then that power is the determining factor? Someone may say that what is right behavior and what the law say are two different things, then that would mean when a parent teaches their child what is right behavior they have to teach what is the law and what is right behavior if they are different.
Morality is a complex subject. It's obvious that many different sources/factors go into deciding what's right or wrong in any given situation.

It's not a simple as saying it's all relative/subjective, but neither is it as simple as there being one divine set of rules that we all obey (deep down in our hearts). Every 4 months or so here, atheists get asked where their morality comes from, and I swear I post the same general list of sources each time. My list is just as good for a Christian or an atheist (with only one or two exceptions), or anyone from different countries, or even people from different times. Here it is:

  • History
  • Religion
  • Logic
    [*'Empathy
  • Personal experience
  • Philosophy
  • Law/legality
  • Society
  • Culture
  • Upbringing / parents
  • Genetics
  • Zeitgeist
  • Intuition

All of these things have a voice, each time we decide whether some action is right or wrong. That's why people disagree so often when morality is being discussed, but because people often share many of the items from this list, it's also why people can agree.
 
What determines the content of religious scripture? What determines whose religious scripture is superior?
Protestant Christian scripture: God.
Religious scripture: Archeological evidence, historical evidence, prophetic evidence from the Bible, and accuracy and reliability of the bible.
 
Morality is a complex subject. It's obvious that many different sources/factors go into deciding what's right or wrong in any given situation.

It's not a simple as saying it's all relative/subjective, but neither is it as simple as there being one divine set of rules that we all obey (deep down in our hearts). Every 4 months or so here, atheists get asked where their morality comes from, and I swear I post the same general list of sources each time. My list is just as good for a Christian or an atheist (with only one or two exceptions), or anyone from different countries, or even people from different times. Here it is:

  • History
  • Religion
  • Logic
    [*'Empathy
  • Personal experience
  • Philosophy
  • Law/legality
  • Society
  • Culture
  • Upbringing / parents
  • Genetics
  • Zeitgeist
  • Intuition

All of these things have a voice, each time we decide whether some action is right or wrong. That's why people disagree so often when morality is being discussed, but because people often share many of the items from this list, it's also why people can agree.
If Adam and Eve are the first two people on earth or who ever the first two are, where did they get morality from? Or was it that they didn't have it? Did we get it after some of those things but not before? Did we have after 5 of the things and not before? Some people believe the first two people were born with it in their heart. To a certain extent in their heart. Do you think the first two people may have had the intuition and empathy and them the rest came with the other things? I heard different things about it?
 
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Whateverman

Well-known member
If Adam and Eve are the first two people on earth or who ever the first two are, where did they get morality from? Or was it that they didn't have it?
There was never a moment when the first two people on Earth existed; there were never two first people. Instead, there were a bunch of beings who - slowly, over time - gradually became something you'd call people. That's a bit off-topic, though, so to answer your question: that bunch of "people" had experience, culture, history, instinct and probably a few other items on the list. They had morality simply by being around each other, because morality only exists when two or more moral beings interact with each other.

Some people believe the first two people were born with it in their heart. To a certain extent in their heart. Do you think the first two people may have had the intuition and empathy and them the rest came with the other things? I heard different things about it?
I'm sorry, but I don't believe anything like Adam and Eve ever occurred, so I can't answer the question you asked.

The theory of evolution demonstrates that a population of hominids became people over a long period of time, and as such, there was never a single moment between morality not existing - and then existing. Morality slowly emerged as hominids interacted with each other, and thus norms of behavior were eventually established.
 

Mr Laurier

Well-known member
If Adam and Eve are the first two people on earth or who ever the first two are, where did they get morality from? Or was it that they didn't have it? Did we get it after some of those things but not before? Did we have after 5 of the things and not before? Some people believe the first two people were born with it in their heart. To a certain extent in their heart. Do you think the first two people may have had the intuition and empathy and them the rest came with the other things? I heard different things about it?
You are starting with a big "IF". There were never any first two people om earth.
The first fully human people on earth, inherited their morality from their proto-human ancestors.
 
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