What did Christ have to do for us before he could die for us?

Tercon

Active member
If we cannot know the reality of God while still being unbelievers, until we have been reconciled to Him through the truth we found in Christ, then in reality what did Christ also have to do for us before he died for us?
 

Tercon

Active member
If we were unbelievers and unable to know or experience the truth and reality of God as unbelievers, and the only way and place that the truth and reality can be known and experienced is in and with a believing mind, then Christ had to give us a believing mind before the truth and reality of God could be known and experienced. And if Christ had to believe he was dying for us before he died for us in reality, then Christ believed and died for us in reality. So, a part of having the faith of Christ or faith in Christs would be believing that he both believed and died for us.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
If we cannot know the reality of God while still being unbelievers, until we have been reconciled to Him through the truth we found in Christ, then in reality what did Christ also have to do for us before he died for us?
A few things. He became a Priest in the Order of Melchizadek. He had to keep God's Law and Covenants for us. He was Coronated as the King of Israel. These are off the top of my head...

Don't expect me to hang out here long...
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
So why is Christ perfectly righteous?

God forbid you might learn something.
Jesus is perfectly Righteous for two reasons; as God he is Self Righteous, and as Man he earned a Human Righteousness by keeping the Mosaic Covenant...
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
He's perfectly righteous for the same reason God calls anyone righteous.
There are two reasons God calls anyone Righteous; one is by keeping the Mosaic Covenant as Jesus Christ did, the other is by God's Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ apart from Works lest we boast...
 

Tercon

Active member
There are two reasons God calls anyone Righteous; one is by keeping the Mosaic Covenant as Jesus Christ did, the other is by God's Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ apart from Works lest we boast...
And I thought it was just because they believed. And we can't boast because a seven year old can know and believe the truth and reality of God faster that the scholar. You guys are a good example of that, you pretend that there's more to knowing God than just believing in the truth and reality of God.

And he hath believed in Jehovah, and He reckoneth it to him – righteousness. (Genesis 15:6)

`-- so that they believe that Jehovah, God of their fathers, hath appeared unto thee, God of Abraham, God of Isaac, and God of Jacob.' (Exodus 4:5)

which of the two did the will of the father?' They say to him, `The first.' Jesus saith to them, `Verily I say to you, that the tax-gatherers and the harlots do go before you into the reign of God, for John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye did not believe him, and the tax-gatherers and the harlots did believe him, and ye, having seen, repented not at last -- to believe him.`Hear ye another simile: There was a certain man, a householder, who planted a vineyard, and did put a hedge round it, and digged in it a wine-press, and built a tower, and gave it out to husbandmen, and went abroad. (Matthew 21:31-33)

`Let it therefore be known to you, men, brethren, that through this one to you is the forgiveness of sins declared, and from all things from which ye were not able in the law of Moses to be declared righteous, in this one every one who is believing is declared righteous; see, therefore, it may not come upon you that hath been spoken in the prophets: See, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish, because a work I -- I do work in your days, a work in which ye may not believe, though any one may declare [it] to you.' (Acts 13:38-42)

And now apart from law hath the righteousness of God been manifested, testified to by the law and the prophets, and the righteousness of God [is] through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, -- for there is no difference, for all did sin, and are come short of the glory of God -- being declared righteous freely by His grace through the redemption that [is] in Christ Jesus,(Romans 3:21-24)

for what doth the writing say? `And Abraham did believe God, and it was reckoned to him -- to righteousness;' and to him who is working, the reward is not reckoned of grace, but of debt;and to him who is not working, and is believing upon Him who is declaring righteous the impious, his faith is reckoned -- to righteousness: (Romans 4:3-5)

how then was it reckoned? he being in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision; and a sign he did receive of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith in the uncircumcision, for his being father of all those believing through uncircumcision, for the righteousness also being reckoned to them, and father of circumcision to those not of circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of the faith, that [is] in the uncircumcision of our father Abraham. (Romans 4:10-12)

that if thou mayest confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and mayest believe in thy heart that God did raise him out of the dead, thou shalt be saved, for with the heart doth [one] believe to righteousness, and with the mouth is confession made to salvation; for the Writing saith, `Every one who is believing on him shall not be ashamed,' (Romans 10:9-11)

having known also that a man is not declared righteous by works of law, if not through the faith of Jesus Christ, also we in Christ Jesus did believe, that we might be declared righteous by the faith of Christ, and not by works of law, wherefore declared righteous by works of law shall be no flesh.' (Galatians 2:16)

according as Abraham did believe God, and it was reckoned to him -- to righteousness; (Galatians 3:6)

for ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail, for, night and day working not to be a burden upon any of you, we did preach to you the good news of God; ye [are] witnesses -- God also -- how kindly and righteously, and blamelessly to you who believe we became, (1 Thessalonians 2:9-11)

and fulfilled was the Writing that is saying, `And Abraham did believe God, and it was reckoned to him -- to righteousness;' and, `Friend of God' he was called. (James 2:23)
 
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civic

Well-known member
He's perfectly righteous for the same reason God calls anyone righteous.
Wrong again since the Father is Holy, the Son is Holy and the Holy Spirit is Holy. God is Holy , the Godhead is Holy, the Trinity is Holy. God as Triune by nature is Holy/Righteous .

nuff said end of thread.

hope this helps !!!
 

Tercon

Active member
Wrong again since the Father is Holy, the Son is Holy and the Holy Spirit is Holy. God is Holy , the Godhead is Holy, the Trinity is Holy. God as Triune by nature is Holy/Righteous .
Are you suggesting that the "Father", "the Son" "the Holy Spirit" and "God", "the Godhead" doesn't believe too? Well what kind of god do you have if he doesn't even believe in his own "holy/righteous"? Your god isn't setting a very good example to follow. So, how can and why should we believe in your god's holiness and righteousness, if your god doesn't even believe in it himself silly?

nuff said end of thread.

hope this helps !!!
But how could you have helped if didn't say or do anything that exposed us to the truth and reality of God?
 
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civic

Well-known member
Are you suggesting that the "Father", "the Son" "the Holy Spirit" and "God", "the Godhead" doesn't believe too? Well what kind of god do you have if he don't even believe in his own "holy/righteous"? Your god isn't setting a very good example to follow. So, how can and why should we believe in your god's holiness and righteousness, if your god doesn't even believe in it himself silly?


But how could you have helped if didn't say or do anything that exposed us to the truth and reality of God?
Are you suggesting( making up) God has faith ?

Only a creature has the necessity for faith, not the Creator.

You talk as though you understand logic, reason and philosophy but you get an F for a grade in this thread with your faulty reasoning, logic, philosophy and last but no least- NO SCRIPTURE to support your FASLE CLAIMS.

The whole idea that God has faith is completely foreign to the Bible. Biblical faith is: human beings trusting in a God they cannot see, to do things that He has promised. God sees all and knows all from all eternity. So, God doesn’t need to have faith. And since God doesn’t need to have faith, the idea that we have to imitate God’s “faith” is clearly unbiblical. Remember, faith is always object oriented: Faith in God not faith of God. And if we mix that up, we have a faulty understanding of what true biblical faith really is.cri


hope this helps !!!
 

Tercon

Active member
Are you suggesting( making up) God has faith ?
Not making up anything, just repeating the truth and reality of God as I believe it.
I believe our belief and faith come from God, where do you think belief came from if it didn't come from God silly? Also, belief is about the only thing that God recommends and commends us for. So, if He thinks belief is good, then I do too.
Only a creature has the necessity for faith, not the Creator.

How do you know? When everything we know about the truth and reality of God is in and because of our belief and faith? Again, where do you think faith and belief came from if it didn't come from God silly? Are you suggesting that belief and faith started in humanity?
You talk as though you understand logic, reason and philosophy but you get an F for a grade in this thread with your faulty reasoning, logic, philosophy and last but no least- NO SCRIPTURE to support your FASLE CLAIMS.

Really, how come you can't refute what I said then?
And all Scripture supports belief being the only way and means needed to know and experience the truth and reality of God. And if you pretend otherwise, then you have placed a religious yoke on the neck of anyone silly enough to believe your lie.
The whole idea that God has faith is completely foreign to the Bible. Biblical faith is: human beings trusting in a God they cannot see, to do things that He has promised. God sees all and knows all from all eternity. So, God doesn’t need to have faith. And since God doesn’t need to have faith, the idea that we have to imitate God’s “faith” is clearly unbiblical. Remember, faith is always object oriented: Faith in God not faith of God. And if we mix that up, we have a faulty understanding of what true biblical faith really is.cri

Not true. And God doesn't expects us to do anything that he doesn't do Himself, that's how we know that belief and faith is from Him, because God won't tell us to do anything that he doesn't do Himself, that's how we know that belief and faith is from God. And He tells us to believe in order to know and experience His truth and reality.
Also, if everything that is true and exists in reality is from God and belief and faith exist in reality, then where do think belief and faith came from, if not from God silly?
hope this helps !!!
No it really didn't. Rather you are burdening people with the same deception and lie that you find your mind infected with.

And just in case you missed it, these are just some of the verses that support what I said.

And he hath believed in Jehovah, and He reckoneth it to him – righteousness. (Genesis 15:6)

`-- so that they believe that Jehovah, God of their fathers, hath appeared unto thee, God of Abraham, God of Isaac, and God of Jacob.' (Exodus 4:5)

which of the two did the will of the father?' They say to him, `The first.' Jesus saith to them, `Verily I say to you, that the tax-gatherers and the harlots do go before you into the reign of God, for John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye did not believe him, and the tax-gatherers and the harlots did believe him, and ye, having seen, repented not at last -- to believe him.`Hear ye another simile: There was a certain man, a householder, who planted a vineyard, and did put a hedge round it, and digged in it a wine-press, and built a tower, and gave it out to husbandmen, and went abroad. (Matthew 21:31-33)

`Let it therefore be known to you, men, brethren, that through this one to you is the forgiveness of sins declared, and from all things from which ye were not able in the law of Moses to be declared righteous, in this one every one who is believing is declared righteous; see, therefore, it may not come upon you that hath been spoken in the prophets: See, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish, because a work I -- I do work in your days, a work in which ye may not believe, though any one may declare [it] to you.' (Acts 13:38-42)

And now apart from law hath the righteousness of God been manifested, testified to by the law and the prophets, and the righteousness of God [is] through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, -- for there is no difference, for all did sin, and are come short of the glory of God -- being declared righteous freely by His grace through the redemption that [is] in Christ Jesus,(Romans 3:21-24)

for what doth the writing say? `And Abraham did believe God, and it was reckoned to him -- to righteousness;' and to him who is working, the reward is not reckoned of grace, but of debt;and to him who is not working, and is believing upon Him who is declaring righteous the impious, his faith is reckoned -- to righteousness: (Romans 4:3-5)

how then was it reckoned? he being in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision; and a sign he did receive of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith in the uncircumcision, for his being father of all those believing through uncircumcision, for the righteousness also being reckoned to them, and father of circumcision to those not of circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of the faith, that [is] in the uncircumcision of our father Abraham. (Romans 4:10-12)

that if thou mayest confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and mayest believe in thy heart that God did raise him out of the dead, thou shalt be saved, for with the heart doth [one] believe to righteousness, and with the mouth is confession made to salvation; for the Writing saith, `Every one who is believing on him shall not be ashamed,' (Romans 10:9-11)

having known also that a man is not declared righteous by works of law, if not through the faith of Jesus Christ, also we in Christ Jesus did believe, that we might be declared righteous by the faith of Christ, and not by works of law, wherefore declared righteous by works of law shall be no flesh.' (Galatians 2:16)

according as Abraham did believe God, and it was reckoned to him -- to righteousness; (Galatians 3:6)

for ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail, for, night and day working not to be a burden upon any of you, we did preach to you the good news of God; ye [are] witnesses -- God also -- how kindly and righteously, and blamelessly to you who believe we became, (1 Thessalonians 2:9-11)

and fulfilled was the Writing that is saying, `And Abraham did believe God, and it was reckoned to him -- to righteousness;' and, `Friend of God' he was called. (James 2:23)
 
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civic

Well-known member
geeze more gobblygook...................................................

I'm reminded of the slime my children use to play with in the 80's....................................
 

Tercon

Active member
geeze more gobblygook...................................................

I'm reminded of the slime my children use to play with in the 80's....................................

Man I have nothing but pity for you, that you would think that in me saying that I believe in the truth and reality is God and supporting that belief with hard verses directly linked to the Bible verses related directly to this topic is “gobblygook” and reminds you “of the slime”. Just what kind of believer are you?

You will notice Reader that they won't answer this question:
If you disbelieve that the Christian faith and belief didn't come from God, then just where do you think the Christian faith and belief came from, if it didn't come from God?

How come you won't answer this question?
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
A few things. He became a Priest in the Order of Melchizadek. He had to keep God's Law and Covenants for us. He was Coronated as the King of Israel. These are off the top of my head...

Don't expect me to hang out here long...

You don't seem to realize that doesn't make any sense. Read Hebrews again.
 
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