What does it mean to "be saved"?

[HillsboroMom]

Why so many questions? Why not just one question? Or maybe two questions or less? Who are you asking? Atheists? Christians? Both? Neither? Why are you asking? Do you need the answers right away? Is it very important that you get the answers? Does your life depend on getting the answers? Or is your inquiry merely academic?

In my OP I asked 11 questions over 5 paragraphs. In your response, you ask 13 questions in just 1 paragraph. Why so many questions, indeed!

Let me see if I can answer the legitimate questions one at a time.

Who are you asking? Atheists? Christians? Both? Neither?

As I said quite clearly in my post, I am asking whomever wants to discuss.

Why are you asking?

Because this is a discussion forum. Why are you asking?

Do you need the answers right away?

No. I don't need answers at all. Questions are just one good way to spark discussion.

Is it very important that you get the answers?

No. See above.

Does your life depend on getting the answers? Or is your inquiry merely academic?

I wouldn't say "merely academic." See above. I think it's a good way to spark discussion.

So if you are a baptized believer, you get a ticket to heaven.

So you believe that "saved" equates with "ticket to heaven." Why do you believe that?

Also, there seem to be some contradictions?

On the one hand, as you quoted, if you believe and are baptized, you're "saved."

On the other hand, if you believe (saying "Lord, Lord," implies you believe) and are baptized, Jesus might still deny he ever knew you and throw you into the lake of fire.

Seems to me being saved is different than going to heaven. According to the Bible, you can be "saved," and still end up in the lake of fire.

Either that, or the Bible is wrong.

Which is it?

Now, all "true" Christians are saved, but the phonies won't make it.

Where in the Bible does it define what a "true" Christian is?

As far as "true" Christianity is concerned, that's anybody's guess, but no doubt it involves belief in the Bible God and recognizing Christ as his son.

"no doubt."

Well, you had Bible verses for everything else, but this you're just making stuff up?

 

[HillsboroMom]

We cannot read anyone's heart.
So it seems pointless to speculate.
We need to leave that to God.

I actually agree with a lot of what you write.

 

[Furion]

Secondly, when does this happen?

That question makes no sense.

Does this happen at baptism, when God claims a child as God's own? Does this happen at the end of a person's life, when they die and have fulfilled their duties? At some other time?

Whenever God does it.

So if I understand you correctly, a person who is "agnostic," who has neither rejected nor accepted Christ, can be saved?

Everyone can be saved, even the most bitter liberal or the most hardened atheist.

Like, let's say a person was raised by atheist parents. They never declare "with their own mouth," as you say, that there is no god and no Christ. But they never accept Jesus as their personal Lord and savior, either. Is that person saved? Why or why not?

If, as you claim, they've never rejected Christ with their mouth then they've not rejected Christ.

It simply means that, what meaning are you looking for?

Are you looking to argue with all of Christendom, just evangelicals or just this board?

I'll walk down this little road of questions you have but is it leading anywhere? Will you at least promise to condemn me as a big meanie or something when we arrive? lol

 

[Gary Mac]

You are mistaken.
Orthodox (small-o) Catholics and Protestants worship and believe in ONE God, not "three gods".

"Three" is the number of "persons" in the godhead, not the number of "gods".
There is only ONE God.

God is not a person at all, God is One Spirit and that Spirit is Love and man is the temple of Him. And either He is in you and you are in Him as one ,John 17, or you are not. Religious beliefs has Him divided into persons. And when you see Him as He is, if you ever do, ye shall be like Him, 1 John 3.

If you wish to try to deny undeniable truth, I suggest you take it to the Trinity forum.

I just gave you the truth.

 

[HillsboroMom]

I had asked:

When does this <getting saved> happen?

To which Furion replies:

That question makes no sense.

and then:

Whenever God does it.

I guess what I was getting at is that some people believe that the "saving" happens at the moment a person is baptized, and others say it's at the moment the person says a certain prayer, or makes a certain decision. I like your answer: when God decides. Fair enough!

Are you looking to argue with all of Christendom, just evangelicals or just this board?

I'm not "looking" to argue with anyone. I was asking what different people believed about being "saved," being "baptized," and other various tenets. Initially, I didn't quite understand what you were saying, but you have explained it and I think I understand your views now.

If you're going to argue that all Christians agree with you on this interpretation, then we can have a debate, because there are a lot of Christians who have very different views about a lot of these things. Some say that the person has to do something specific: "believe and be baptized," specifically. And then, what it means to "believe," and what it means to "be baptized," are up to additional interpretations. And then, some Christians think "being saved" is the same thing as "going to heaven," as you've seen in this thread, and others say they're not the same. So it's all up to interpretation.

My intention isn't necessarily to argue, but to spark discussion. Which is the whole point of a discussion forum, is it not?

Will you at least promise to condemn me as a big meanie or something when we arrive? lol

Umm, no. Not unless you do something mean, which you haven't. I think you've judged me a little prematurely, but you haven't really called me names or done anything offensive toward me. Yet.

Do you want to be "condemned" as a "big meanie"? If so, why?

 

[Gary Mac]

To have been CLEANSED for all past SIN, and to continue to be CLEANSED (upon confession thereof) from present SIN BY FAITH in the perfect SIN OFFERING (Isa 53) of Jesus on the cross.

Acxtually if one is born of God, born again of God, it is impossible to be in sin. 1 John 3:9, for He takes away the sins of this world, and as it says when you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him and that does not include sin.

Most as yourself confess your sin but never repent of them to be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect that He demands of you.

No matter who you try and justify your sin, in Christ there is no sin, it is those who are outside of Christ who are the sinners. Christ simply means to be anointed of God and in that anointing there is no sin to be forgiven of. He takes away the sins of this world 1 John 3, you just dont believe that He can or does.

FAITH in the perfect SIN OFFERING (Isa 53) of Jesus on the cross.

Faith will produce anything you are determined to produce. That is what faith is, manifestation of that what once was not. Want Christ to manifest? there is your answer.

ALL Born Again CHRISTIANS are saved by virtue of having been drawn by God to Jesus, Convicted of their SIN, having REPENTED of it, and having Called upon God in FAITH (that He gifts) to cleanse them from their SIN.

Born again is to have the same mind of God Jesus had of Him and walk as He walks in His same light as Jesus did. Perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect, He in you and you in Him as one as Jesus was one in Him, John 17.

NOTE: the word "Christian" in common usage in 2021 doesn't necessarily mean "Christian" in the Biblical sense. Lots of folks who use the label "Christian" on themselves don't HAVE A CLUE what that even means and are nothing more than "Religious" LOST people.

Ys most dont have a clue what it is to as Jesus was in the Father, anointed of God for Christ simply means to be anointed of God, Christ in you is Gods anointing in you by the same Spirit in you who was in Christ Jesus.

Covered above.

Denominationalism is relatively unimportant, except that SOME denominations are closer to Biblical truth than others. God, however can reach people IN SPITE OF the denomination they're part of. When a person is SAVED, then they can start learning the Biblical truth as the Holy SPirit (which indwells them) guides them into truth. Leaving their corrupt Denomination, for a more accurate one often follows.

I partly agree except we dont need to creed to any religious organization. Jesus was clear In John 16:23 that in that ye shall ask me noting but go to the Father for yourself and He will give it you. These religious enterprises cant give you that what God gives at all.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Acxtually if one is born of God, born again of God, it is impossible to be in sin.

So how's YOUR "Sinless life" working out for you??

 

[Gary Mac]

So how's YOUR "Sinless life" working out for you??

The way God planed for us to be ye perfect as He is and in His same image. i tis a wonderful life to live, that of Love, for God is Love and in Love there is no sin at all.

How is your life working out as a sinner that is void of Love, void of the One who takes away the sins of this world?

your mockery of Him will not merit you His gift of Love at all.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

How is your life working out as a sinner that is void of Love, void of the One who takes away the sins of this world?

It's been Good for the last 58 years, being led by the Holy Spirit, and blessed in countless ways. I'm a LONG way from being what I was back in '63, and moving closer to the end of physical life all the time. I'm not perfect (anymore than you are), but I have no complaints.

your mockery of Him will not merit you His gift of Love at all.

(Chuckle) And always THREATS for those that disagree with your interpretations. Very predictable.

 

[Manfred]

Inviting responses from anyone / everyone. What does it mean to "be saved"? Saved from what? For what?

What is required to "be saved"? For example, getting baptized, or "believer's baptism" only, or repentance, or "the sinner's prayer," or ...? Is it a one-time thing (once saved always saved) or can a person be saved and then lose one's salvation, and if so, what kind of things jeopardize one's salvation?

Are all Christians saved? Are some non-Christians saved?

For that matter, what does it take to be a "Christian"? Many people think certain denominations aren't "real Christians," such as Catholics, Mormons, etc. Who gets to decide which actions, or labels, or whatever, qualify some people as "Christian," or some people as "saved," and other people as "not Christian" and/or "not saved"?

And before you answer, "Scripture says...." keep in mind that every single person who has an answer will have Scripture to support their answer, even though their answers may disagree. So, the question is: why is your verse better than another person's verse, or your interpretation of Scripture better than another person's interpretation?

4 And you know the way to where I am going. 5 Thomas said to him, Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way? 6 Jesus said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

 

[Gary Mac]

It's been Good for the last 58 years, being led by the Holy Spirit, and blessed in countless ways. I'm a LONG way from being what I was back in '63, and moving closer to the end of physical life all the time. I'm not perfect (anymore than you are), but I have no complaints.

So you say you are lead by the Holy SPirit yet deny Jesus commandment to be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect and walk as He walks in His same light and have His same mind, the mind of Christ which is perfect. Yet you say you are not perfect.

Tell me how that works for it is not of God at all for His Holy SPirit is perfect and if you were lead by His perfect Spirit you would be as well. Someting is missing here. Either you are right and He is wrong, or He is right and you are wrong.

As for me I am perfect even as my father in heaven is perfect. He in me and I in Him are one, just as Jesus was one in Him, read John 17.

Ask yourself why you cant relate to His perfections as He demands of us.

(Chuckle) And always THREATS for those that disagree with your interpretations. Very predictable.

I understand that the way of God to be like Him as He demands of us if we are to be of His kingdom -- that His way is a threat to the religious minds who form their own gods through beliefs instead of the realty of God manifest in them and they manipulate a god to obey their beliefs for a god. Actually forming a god into your own image for imperfections.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

So you say you are lead by the Holy SPirit yet deny Jesus commandment to be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect and walk as He walks in His same light and have His same mind, the mind of Christ which is perfect. Yet you say you are not perfect.

Chuckle!!! I'm Perfect (experimentally) probably to the same degree YOU are. But PERFECT in my standing before God just like you are (Assuming you're Born Again).

Tell me how that works for it is not of God at all for His Holy SPirit is perfect and if you were lead by His perfect Spirit you would be as well. Someting is missing here. Either you are right and He is wrong, or He is right and you are wrong. \

Or MAYBE it's your flawed interpretation of the WORD that's wrong.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

In my OP I asked 11 questions over 5 paragraphs. In your response, you ask 13 questions in just 1 paragraph. Why so many questions, indeed!

Yes. Now you know what it's like to be asked an excessive number of questions.

So you believe that "saved" equates with "ticket to heaven." Why do you believe that?

The two terms mean the same thing. Being saved with a ticket to heaven is like being a gambler with a bus ticket to Atlantic City.

Also, there seem to be some contradictions?

On the one hand, as you quoted, if you believe and are baptized, you're "saved."

On the other hand, if you believe (saying "Lord, Lord," implies you believe) and are baptized, Jesus might still deny he ever knew you and throw you into the lake of fire.

Seems to me being saved is different than going to heaven. According to the Bible, you can be "saved," and still end up in the lake of fire.

Either that, or the Bible is wrong.

Which is it?

I think this paradox can be partially resolved if we understand that those crying "Lord, Lord" are not necessarily true Christians but those who mistakenly believe they are true Christians. They won't please Jesus, though! If his followers don't measure up, then they are to be damned.

But they nevertheless believe and are baptized, are they not? It looks like the early Christian sect soon realized that mere belief and baptism often resulted in less than holy followers. The bar of salvation needed to be raised a bit to filter out the cretins.

Where in the Bible does it define what a "true" Christian is?

I don't believe the Bible clarifies what a true Christian is. That task remained for theologians to fight over ever since.

"no doubt."

Well, you had Bible verses for everything else, but this you're just making stuff up?

Oh sure--I am the guy who made up the idea that one must believe in God and recognize Christ as God's son to be saved. Prior to my fabrication, nobody ever thought that atheists not to mention Hindus cannot get to heaven. Concepts of salvation had nothing to do with believing in God or recognizing Christ as God's son!

But seriously, you don't know that according to the bible it's necessary to believe in God and Christ to be saved? If not, then try Mark 16.

Finally, I haven't failed to notice that when I repeat what I've read in the Bible or what Christians say, I am accused of making it up. I suppose that many people, including many Christians, just can't believe what (other) Christians believe.

 

[HillsboroMom]

4 And you know the way to where I am going. 5 Thomas said to him, Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way? 6 Jesus said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

So, you believe that following Jesus is how to "get saved."

But, what does it mean to "be saved"? And you haven't answered any other of the questions.

But I do appreciate the input, thanks!

 

[HillsboroMom]

But seriously, you don't know that according to the bible it's necessary to believe in God and Christ to be saved? If not, then try Mark 16.

Well, that's the problem. First, you said all that was required was to "believe" and "be baptized." Now you seem to be adding a 3rd requirement: to be a "true Christian." And all 3 of these things are open to interpretation

Finally, I haven't failed to notice that when I repeat what I've read in the Bible or what Christians say, I am accused of making it up. I suppose that many people, including many Christians, just can't believe what (other) Christians believe.

I was being facetious, but the problem is, the Bible is somewhat contradictory.

 

[Manfred]

So, you believe that following Jesus is how to "get saved."

But, what does it mean to "be saved"? And you haven't answered any other of the questions.

But I do appreciate the input, thanks!

You should try and exegete the passage.
Nowhere in that passage does it talk about following Jesus. Tomas like you thought it was about following Jesus to some place.

Here it is again (And if exegeted correctly, it answers all your questions)

4 And you know the way to where I am going. 5 Thomas said to him, Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way? 6 Jesus said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

 

[HillsboroMom]

All Christians are saved, but not all people that call themselves Christian are Christian.

What is your Biblical support for that?

Thank you for your input. I appreciated your responses very much.

 

[Manfred]

What is your Biblical support for that?

Thank you for your input. I appreciated your responses very much.

24 He put another parable before them, saying, The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field, 25 but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat and went away. 26 So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. 27 And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds? 28 He said to them, An enemy has done this. So the servants said to him, Then do you want us to go and gather them? 29 But he said, No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn. (Matt 13 ESV)

1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

 

[Gary Mac]

Chuckle!!! I'm Perfect (experimentally) probably to the same degree YOU are. But PERFECT in my standing before God just like you are (Assuming you're Born Again).

Experimentally perfect? Either you are perfect as He is perfect and walk as He walks in His same light or you are not and do not.

And because I am as He is by the same SPirit, mind, walk, life His life of Love, as Jesus walks in our Father, then born again is not an assumption as you experiment with and try and control through a belief.

Or MAYBE it's your flawed interpretation of the WORD that's wrong.

Or perhaps it is your flawed interpretation from lack in being as He is to have His same mind as He demands if we are to be like Him? Which is the only way to be perfected in Him, He in you and you in Him as one, John 17. Evidentially that is not within your grasp.

1 John 3, and when you see Him as He is (instead of you seeing Him as you see Him through laws for a belief with no reality of), , ye shall be like Him instead.

And it isnt a matter of me standing before God for some judgment, it is a matter of Him in me and I in Him as one to have His same mind, same disposition that of Love for God is Love. In that we are our own judge whether we are like Him or not. And you know very well if you are like Him and prefect even as He is perfect just as I do.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Experimentally perfect? Either you are perfect as He is perfect and walk as He walks in His same light or you are not and do not.

And because I am as He is by the same SPirit, mind, walk, life His life of Love, as Jesus walks in our Father, then born again is not an assumption as you experiment with and try and control through a belief.

Or perhaps it is your flawed interpretation from lack in being as He is to have His same mind as He demands if we are to be like Him? Which is the only way to be perfected in Him, He in you and you in Him as one, John 17. Evidentially that is not within your grasp.

1 John 3, and when you see Him as He is (instead of you seeing Him as you see Him through laws for a belief with no reality of), , ye shall be like Him instead.

And it isnt a matter of me standing before God for some judgment, it is a matter of Him in me and I in Him as one to have His same mind, same disposition that of Love for God is Love. In that we are our own judge whether we are like Him or not. And you know very well if you are like Him and prefect even as He is perfect just as I do.

I always get a kick out of experimentally "Perfect People". Dream on.