What Has Caused the Massive Decline of Mass Attendance in the Roman Catholic Church?

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Has the decline in Roman Catholic Mass attendance been because of their liturgy being radically reshaped since 1965? Since that time their Sunday Mass attendance has declined by at least 50%.
 

mica

Well-known member
I didn't like the change from Latin to English myself, but it didn't stop me from going to Mass back then. I do know that catholics have left the RCC (and going to 'Mass') by the droves. I do know that 2 churches here in the US (each in a different state) have said that their membership doubled because of the former catholics who joined them. both have congregations in excess of 2000 members. I'm using a low number in that. and that is just 2 churches. How many other churches in those states have seen an influx of former catholics in the past decade or 2? and in the other 48 states? One minister said he asked the catholics why they wanted to change and come to this new church and the replies were overwhelmingly that 'they weren't being fed in the catholic church'. they weren't talking about communion wafers or pot luck dinners. At least one of the churches has its service on TV each Sunday. I don't know about the other church. It might in its local area. But it did make me wonder that if 1 church in 1 state doubled its membership in a yr (x2) then how many other churches in each of those 2 states also had a large number of catholics joining them. plus those in the other 48 states.

eta - I did (once again) watch a few minutes of a catholic Mass (on TV) the other day. It was so mechanical - and boring (just as I remembered it to be). I'd be spiritually starved if that's what I was fed on.
 
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The massive decline in Mass attendance is due to the loss of the Catholic Faith in Catholics. The loss of the Catholic Faith in Catholics is due to Vatican II creating a humanistic, naturalistic, man centered dogma-less religion in which it proclaimed that salvation can be found in any religion or even in no religion at all.

When you follow a non-Catholic religion, you become a non-Catholic.
 

mica

Well-known member
The massive decline in Mass attendance is due to the loss of the Catholic Faith in Catholics. The loss of the Catholic Faith in Catholics is due to Vatican II creating a humanistic, naturalistic, man centered dogma-less religion in which it proclaimed that salvation can be found in any religion or even in no religion at all.

When you follow a non-Catholic religion, you become a non-Catholic.
that's what the RCC is pre and post Vat II.
 

mica

Well-known member
mica said:
that's what the RCC is pre and post Vat II.
That's your opinion, of which you know nothing about. The Vatican II religion is objectively a different religion than the Catholic religion.
sure I do. I was catholic pre and post Vat II - and in catholic schools. so much for what is taught in catholic schools - right?

are you saying you know more about what you claim is my opinion than I do?
 
Do you know specifically what Vatican II changed and how it contradicted with what was previously taught before Vatican II by the Catholic Church?
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Do you know specifically what Vatican II changed and how it contradicted with what was previously taught before Vatican II by the Catholic Church?
I think that of all the changes in the RCC stemming from Vat II that touched most plain and ordinary Roman Catholics was the change in the liturgy. These changes were equated with the replacement of Latin by whatever the local language was and so the squabbling over accuracy and what they believed was eloquence of the new authorized translation of the liturgy was disruptive to many RC's who didn't like adapting to the new words and gestures. But I think the changes were more deep-seated than even that, and that the new rites brought forth an altered understanding of God, the Roman Catholic Church, the priesthood and salvation.
 

Septextura

Well-known member
The massive decline in Mass attendance is due to the loss of the Catholic Faith in Catholics. The loss of the Catholic Faith in Catholics is due to Vatican II creating a humanistic, naturalistic, man centered dogma-less religion in which it proclaimed that salvation can be found in any religion or even in no religion at all.

When you follow a non-Catholic religion, you become a non-Catholic.

I wish someone telegraphed this newsflash to RCC apologists that keep using the outdated Trent to debate Protestants. They don't believe me when I tell them in what kind of 'church' they joined.
 

balshan

Well-known member
Has the decline in Roman Catholic Mass attendance been because of their liturgy being radically reshaped since 1965? Since that time their Sunday Mass attendance has declined by at least 50%.
To me being post and pre Vat 11 I did not mind the change to English. It made sense to me, it meant that most people might finally know what they were listening to and saying. I did not have a problem with Latin, as I ensured I knew the meaning.

I think it is the lack of God's presence and also social changes more. It is no longer seen as a must do to go to mass/church on Sundays. The times have changed here. The fact that gospel is not taught and the assumption that being baptized as an infant means people are saved.

But I think it is also the lack of caring for the laity. Which is most noticeable in the way the victims of abuse have been treated. It says a lot about the lack of heart that has been in the RCC and is still lacking. I mean when I went my brothers funeral, the priest only mentioned my parents and his brothers totally ignored the fact he had 3 sisters. As I said the lack of care.
 
I think that of all the changes in the RCC stemming from Vat II that touched most plain and ordinary Roman Catholics was the change in the liturgy. These changes were equated with the replacement of Latin by whatever the local language was and so the squabbling over accuracy and what they believed was eloquence of the new authorized translation of the liturgy was disruptive to many RC's who didn't like adapting to the new words and gestures. But I think the changes were more deep-seated than even that, and that the new rites brought forth an altered understanding of God, the Roman Catholic Church, the priesthood and salvation.
Yes, for the average Catholic, who may not be versed in theology, the changes first manifested itself in the Mass.

Most Catholics, after all, have never read the documents of Vatican II. But they saw that the Mass was now in the vernacular languages. Before Vatican II, a Catholic could go anywhere in the world and go to Mass and feel at home because it was exactly the same Mass in the same language.

The altar had now been replaced with the Novus Ordo supper table.

The priest no longer faced God in the tabernacle, but now was turned to face the people.

The altar rails were no longer used, and in many cased torn down because now you no longer kneeled to receive the Blessed Sacrament on the tongue from only the hands of a priest, but now stood and received in the hand.

Soon there were "Eucharistic ministers" handing out communion. Gladys, who checked your groceries out at the supermarket earlier in the week, was now giving you the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ in you hand.

Eventually sacred music, Gregorian Chant, was replaced with guitars, drums and banjos, and there were "themed" masses: clown mass, balloon mass, cowboy mass, polka mass, etc. The more stupid and profane, the better, seemingly.

This would be bad enough, but the changes run even much more deeply than even the changes in the Mass. Theological changes that actually redefine what the Catholic Church IS.
 

balshan

Well-known member
Yes, for the average Catholic, who may not be versed in theology, the changes first manifested itself in the Mass.

Most Catholics, after all, have never read the documents of Vatican II. But they saw that the Mass was now in the vernacular languages. Before Vatican II, a Catholic could go anywhere in the world and go to Mass and feel at home because it was exactly the same Mass in the same language.

The altar had now been replaced with the Novus Ordo supper table.

The priest no longer faced God in the tabernacle, but now was turned to face the people.

The altar rails were no longer used, and in many cased torn down because now you no longer kneeled to receive the Blessed Sacrament on the tongue from only the hands of a priest, but now stood and received in the hand.

Soon there were "Eucharistic ministers" handing out communion. Gladys, who checked your groceries out at the supermarket earlier in the week, was now giving you the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ in you hand.

Eventually sacred music, Gregorian Chant, was replaced with guitars, drums and banjos, and there were "themed" masses: clown mass, balloon mass, cowboy mass, polka mass, etc. The more stupid and profane, the better, seemingly.

This would be bad enough, but the changes run even much more deeply than even the changes in the Mass. Theological changes that actually redefine what the Catholic Church IS.
Well it took a much softer look at sin and who will can be saved.
 

mica

Well-known member
Do you know specifically what Vatican II changed and how it contradicted with what was previously taught before Vatican II by the Catholic Church?
I know enough to know it was false under Vat I and still false under Vat II. I was raised catholic, went to catholic schools, most of my family was catholic and many still are 'catholic'. Most of my friends were catholic and some are no longer catholic. Most still claim to be catholic but are just lost souls in this world. Most I can't even read their FB pages because of the vile nastiness they post, they support abortion (a good number have had an abortion), homosexuality and same sex marriage (and openly support and promote it). The words they use I wouldn't allow spoken in my home and I don't want to be around it. I usually read your posts / your version of what was and now is. I don't usually reply to them.
It isn't like what was taught prior to Vat II was the truth of His word or that the RCC pre Vat II was His church. It wasn't then and it still isn't. Peter was never a 'pope' or leader of all believers. He (all of the 12) were sent to the Jews (Matt 10 and 15), not the Gentiles. Peter's epistles are to the Jews. Paul and others were sent to the Gentiles. Peter was not 'over' Paul, Barnabas or Timothy etc.

Christ is the Head of His church (those who are born again), no man on earth is the head of His church.
 

Septextura

Well-known member
Yes, for the average Catholic, who may not be versed in theology, the changes first manifested itself in the Mass.

Most Catholics, after all, have never read the documents of Vatican II. But they saw that the Mass was now in the vernacular languages. Before Vatican II, a Catholic could go anywhere in the world and go to Mass and feel at home because it was exactly the same Mass in the same language.

The altar had now been replaced with the Novus Ordo supper table.

The priest no longer faced God in the tabernacle, but now was turned to face the people.

The altar rails were no longer used, and in many cased torn down because now you no longer kneeled to receive the Blessed Sacrament on the tongue from only the hands of a priest, but now stood and received in the hand.

Soon there were "Eucharistic ministers" handing out communion. Gladys, who checked your groceries out at the supermarket earlier in the week, was now giving you the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ in you hand.

Eventually sacred music, Gregorian Chant, was replaced with guitars, drums and banjos, and there were "themed" masses: clown mass, balloon mass, cowboy mass, polka mass, etc. The more stupid and profane, the better, seemingly.

This would be bad enough, but the changes run even much more deeply than even the changes in the Mass. Theological changes that actually redefine what the Catholic Church IS.

You know what happened, but do you know Why it happened?

What is the greater truth?
 

mica

Well-known member
Yes, for the average Catholic, who may not be versed in theology, the changes first manifested itself in the Mass.
catholics knew / know little to nothing of what scripture says / teaches. They only know what they've been taught by the RCC and / or find in the ccc (to their limited understanding of it).

Most Catholics, after all, have never read the documents of Vatican II. But they saw that the Mass was now in the vernacular languages. Before Vatican II, a Catholic could go anywhere in the world and go to Mass and feel at home because it was exactly the same Mass in the same language.
most have never read a whole chapter in the Bible. Why would the documents of Vat II be more important than scripture? Unless of course if the RCC is your god, what you believe in and follow.

The altar had now been replaced with the Novus Ordo supper table.

The priest no longer faced God in the tabernacle, but now was turned to face the people.

The altar rails were no longer used, and in many cased torn down because now you no longer kneeled to receive the Blessed Sacrament on the tongue from only the hands of a priest, but now stood and received in the hand.
there is no need for an altar anyway. There is no more sacrifice. That was done many years ago.

Soon there were "Eucharistic ministers" handing out communion. Gladys, who checked your groceries out at the supermarket earlier in the week, was now giving you the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ in you hand.

Eventually sacred music, Gregorian Chant, was replaced with guitars, drums and banjos, and there were "themed" masses: clown mass, balloon mass, cowboy mass, polka mass, etc. The more stupid and profane, the better, seemingly.
It isn't His body, blood etc. That is made up by the RCC. In NT time lay people passed around the bread... you're chained to rituals made up by men.

This would be bad enough, but the changes run even much more deeply than even the changes in the Mass. Theological changes that actually redefine what the Catholic Church IS.
I don't like change much... but boy, the changes that came when I was born again. A catholic can't even begin to imagine it. My rosary, missal, holy cards etc all landed in the trash. and that was minor compared to the change in my heart and my life. It was a life gloriously turned upside down and inside out.

Just more man made changes to a false religion. They didn't make the RCC more false or less false. False is false.
 

Septextura

Well-known member
@Mysterium Fidei

No faithful catholic wants to hear this but it needs to be said.

The reason why Rome changed its core doctrines from the 19th century onwards was to subvert its enemies. They changed to look reformed to the Protestants, secular to the Atheists, brotherly to the Orthodox, motherly to the Pagans, sisterly to Muslims, charitable to Jews etc. They changed so much, their own laity can't recognize them. It shows you that their interest and priority isn't the Christian faith, salvation, pastoring the sheep, representing God, expanding the Kingdom of Christ. No. It's about Empire. Power and dominion. Always was, always will be.

The Latin Mass was bread and circuses for the masses, just a deception. They changed it to Novus Ordo, a different type of bread and circuses. Organs or banjos, finely stitched silk or clown makeup... They don't even care about the difference. They thought that's good enough for the fools filling their pockets. They thought Protestants will come in like a flood to see the reformed Circus Maximus. Muslims will worship their Mary. And the leaders of their enemies did. Every religious leader in the world kisses the papal ring, standing in the shade of the Ecumenical Umbraculum.

Do not weep over the beautiful garbs, elaborate crowns, masterful chants, images and cathedrals. They were as fake as their current replacements. That is not the Church of Jesus Christ. Never was, never will be.

Luke 17
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

1 Corinthians 3
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Without knowing Christ you will not only die in your sins, but live the remaining of this life in bitterness and nostalgia. No, He is not the piece of starch paraded in the golden monstrance as a perpetual sacrifice. He is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, the God Almighty. What you have now, and before, are the carnal imperial bread and circuses, and a mortal emperor.

What then? To comply or to protest?

1 Corinthians 6
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

2 Corinthians 6
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
 
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Teresa

Member
eta - I did (once again) watch a few minutes of a catholic Mass (on TV) the other day. It was so mechanical - and boring (just as I remembered it to be). I'd be spiritually starved if that's what I was fed on.
What is it you find that feeds your spirituality?
 

mica

Well-known member
mica said:
eta - I did (once again) watch a few minutes of a catholic Mass (on TV) the other day. It was so mechanical - and boring (just as I remembered it to be). I'd be spiritually starved if that's what I was fed on.

What is it you find that feeds your spirituality?
Him, His word, the Holy Spirit and fellowship with other believers.
 

mica

Well-known member
Mysterium Fidei said:
The massive decline in Mass attendance is due to the loss of the Catholic Faith in Catholics. The loss of the Catholic Faith in Catholics is due to Vatican II creating a humanistic, naturalistic, man centered dogma-less religion in which it proclaimed that salvation can be found in any religion or even in no religion at all.

When you follow a non-Catholic religion, you become a non-Catholic.
I wish someone telegraphed this newsflash to RCC apologists that keep using the outdated Trent to debate Protestants. They don't believe me when I tell them in what kind of 'church' they joined.
and what happened to OCAC? that's what we were taught. no way to get away from it. That was just another lie. maybe that was tossed out with Vat II.
 
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