What I went through because of Christianity.

Because rule #1 is not in the bible.

I can get you verses showing The bible is important. The bible is TRUE.

I can show you verses that teach the bible is PROFITABLE and HELPFUL. GOD BREATHED.

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.


But I can't show you rule #1.

RULE #1 was made up around 1500s by minor group of catholics.

The closest thing to rule #1 is in the old testament, OLD mind you, where they found a bible of their time. But even then they had to check in with a priest for authority.
 
You've never had the Spirit to know this. So how do you know this?
I use my brain, of course, to understand everything including the Bible insofar as the Bible can be understood. I'm not sure what you mean by "having the Spirit," but I do hope that your brain is involved somewhere in there.
How did t his go from you being ignorant of the Bible to me being ignorant of the Bible?
That's going from a lie to the truth, of course.

In any event, you are welcome to quiz me on basic knowledge of the Bible's contents any time.
I'm not the one that was deceived by ignorance of what the Bible actually says about getting rich through the gospel. You were.
First of all, I never said nor did I imply that I ever got involved in prosperity doctrine. I said I was bamboozled by Christian faith healers and the Bible. Second, if you really have this "Spirit" you claim to have, then it's awfully darned strange that you don't know what's going on with me.
 
Gee, that's a toughee. It couldn't possibly be those who are crucifying him, right?
Again, we don't know. The passage is ambiguous. I used to think it was referring to the Romans, but others say it refers to the Jews. What's your guess?
He's acting in his role as High Priest who would offer up the prescribed sacrifice to God and obtain forgiveness on behalf of the people. If you would just take the time to read and know your Bible you'd see this fulfilling of the role of High Priest and Sacrifice on the cross. He's offering himself up in sacrifice for the forgiveness of mankind.
I have no idea what this has to do with "Father, forgive them..." I'd recommend you learn how to keep your writing relevant to the topic.
 
The Spirit is the only predisposition you need to read and understand the Bible.
It doesn't appear to help you much.
But there is actually a grain of truth to the idea of 'predisposition'. Some people are predisposed by virtue of who and what they are as a person to simply not be interested in the truth about righteousness. So I'll give you credit for understanding that much.
As I see it, a righteous person would at the very least investigate reports of people being harmed by Christian beliefs in miraculous healing and do what is possible to prevent further harm. Have you done anything like that?
The problem is you were never saved.
Yes. I discovered that when I found there is no life after death. Isn't that great? I think it is!
You came to the Lord for the wrong reason(s). If you had come to him for the forgiveness of your sin you would have come to him for the right reason and received salvation and the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Actually, I went through all that.
But as it is, you came to him for carnal reasons. Not making light of your plight. Suffering isn't fun. Nobody likes it, or volunteers for it. But at least in Christ you'd have a measure of joy and comfort in your suffering.
Your comments just keep getting stranger. Are you really that desperate to whitewash your religion? Don't you think your time would be better spent making the world a better place?
 
RULE #1-->IT must be FOUND in the bible to be a legitimate rule .
Depends who made the rules. Some of the rules man made for their own beliefs are contrary to what God commands of us and said we would be if we have His same disposition of mind. Such as you are just a dirty ole sinner not worthy of the kingdom of God. God says all are worthy to recieve from Him His perfections to be your own perfections.

Man wrote and put together the Bible according to their own beliefs for a God. In 1611 A King assembled some 100 scholars to compile the modern bible from other writings that we use today. Ironic is that King who authorized it was an atheists and didnt even believe in God at all, and what we have is what came out from that. the Bible is not the word of God, it is a tutorial devised by man for beliefs and say God inspired it. Jim Jones, David Koresh, Jeff Warren all said they were inspired by God as well. If you can catch my drift.

RULE#2-->Don't ask WHERE RULE #1 is in the bible.
Rule # 2 is be as I Am as God commands of us all, that way one cannot be wrong about any of it if God Himself comes to you and opens in you who He is and all of His heaven in you. .
 
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I use my brain, of course, to understand everything including the Bible insofar as the Bible can be understood. I'm not sure what you mean by "having the Spirit," but I do hope that your brain is involved somewhere in there.
Everybody who belongs to God in salvation has received the Holy Spirit. And it is by the Holy Spirit that a person understands the things of God.


In any event, you are welcome to quiz me on basic knowledge of the Bible's contents any time.
Okay. Question: What counsel, what comfort does the Bible offer to people who don't get healed?

First of all, I never said nor did I imply that I ever got involved in prosperity doctrine. I said I was bamboozled by Christian faith healers and the Bible.
You mean you didn't know that the false healing teachings are what is called the prosperity gospel?

Second, if you really have this "Spirit" you claim to have, then it's awfully darned strange that you don't know what's going on with me.
It's because I know the Bible that I know what's going on with you.

Don't you think your time would be better spent making the world a better place?
How's that working out for you?
 
As I see it, a righteous person would at the very least investigate reports of people being harmed by Christian beliefs in miraculous healing and do what is possible to prevent further harm.
That's what we've been doing with you. But we see you're not interested in the truth.
 
Again, we don't know. The passage is ambiguous. I used to think it was referring to the Romans, but others say it refers to the Jews.
In the immediate context, they who know not what they do is obviously everyone resposible for and cheering putting Jesus on the cross.

But in the larger context of all of mankind he is acting as High Priest and offering himself up as the sacrifice for all of mankind, past, present, and future.

What's your guess?

I have no idea what this has to do with "Father, forgive them..." I'd recommend you learn how to keep your writing relevant to the topic.
You don't know the relevance of what I wrote because you do not know the Bible well enough to know.
 
There is no holy table of contents. and The most UNBIBLICAL teaching is that things MUST BE BIBLICAL.
That's what we've been doing with you. But we see you're not interested in the truth.
Who are you to judge? everyone especially in these forums are doing the best they can with what they got.

Well, technically you are right. There is no life after death for you, an unbeliever.
Man if heaven is just folks like you, he probably dodged a bullet.

Where can he find a "PERFECT" understanding of scripture AS you understand it? He already tried bible alone.

I always like to teach atheists this verse:

2 timothy 2 : 24
And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.


I guess that rules you out as a servant of the lord. If you are going to get upset with something as simple as an atheist, obviously not cut out for it.

You should be joyful, happy to teach. He's shaking up your faith that's why you are becoming combative.

You can never get anyone to believe something you don't believe yourself, like plenty of Christians who don't believe the above verse.
 
Okay. Question: What counsel, what comfort does the Bible offer to people who don't get healed?
I'm not sure what comfort the Bible offers to those who don't get healed, but I'm hoping that the courts will start awarding hefty settlements to those who were harmed financially or medically by Christians. And personally, to see more churches close down due to lack of support from those who wise up would comfort me greatly.
 
I'm not sure what comfort the Bible offers to those who don't get healed, but I'm hoping that the courts will start awarding hefty settlements to those who were harmed financially or medically by Christians.
Non sequitur. Those who harm others are unlikely to be Christians.

And personally, to see more churches close down due to lack of support from those who wise up would comfort me greatly.
And if libelling all Christians by virtue of the actions of an apostate minority was a criminal offence, don't you think you would be amongst the first to be jailed?
 
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There is no holy table of contents. and The most UNBIBLICAL teaching is that things MUST BE BIBLICAL.

Who are you to judge? everyone especially in these forums are doing the best they can with what they got.
Many only come hear to argue a narrow viewpoint and are uninterested in other points of view.

Man if heaven is just folks like you, he probably dodged a bullet.

Where can he find a "PERFECT" understanding of scripture AS you understand it?
You can only find a perfect understanding of scripture as a continuing Christian or as a genuine inquirer. For those with an axe to grind, and / or are bent on seeing Christians as fools or duped, the outlook is bleak. Their hope lies with a future revelation from God, like Saul of Tarsus, which shouldn't be ruled out, but equally shouldn't be assumed.

He already tried bible alone.
It's not clear that this is the case.

I always like to teach atheists this verse:

2 timothy 2 : 24
And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.


I guess that rules you out as a servant of the lord. If you are going to get upset with something as simple as an atheist, obviously not cut out for it.
Remind yourself of the highly derogatory terms in which Jesus and Paul addressed those who rejected faith.

You should be joyful, happy to teach. He's shaking up your faith that's why you are becoming combative.
Can't see it.

You can never get anyone to believe something you don't believe yourself, like plenty of Christians who don't believe the above verse.
There is a difference between being quarrelsome and engaged in a debate. You're over-egging it by a long marguin at this point.
 
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You need to reign in other Christians when they get out of line. To do nothing about evil is an evil in its own right.
I repeat I am not a moderator on this forum and I do not presume to engage in any such activities here. You should know the forum rules and not expect people to do things they are not entitled to do.

But to start out "do not judge" isn't a matter of having limited vocabulary but results from poor writing skill. Such poor writing reveals the human origin of scripture. People communicate imperfectly, but a real God must speak flawlessly.
We don't know that the English word "judge" reflects all the nuances of the Greek κρίνω. We suspect that κρίνω in the Greek is ordinarily associated with the actions of rule, and government; presiding over others with the power of giving judicial decisions, i.e. also law courts, in the sense of pronouncing public judgements, rather than with mere private judgements about all kinds of things, which is likely a contextually made-out derivation.

Whereas in English the primary meaning of "judge" is often the sense of "evaluate." The ordinary meaning of the verb "judge" is not public judging.

So may be a better English translation should be "Do not deliver judgements....."

Another thing is that we almost certainly have a Greek translation of Jesus's Aramaic words.

This is one of those places where English being a translation of a translation may have lost some of the original nuance.


LOL--People need assets, not a God. Again, the human basis of religion is revealed.
You've no proof of that.

Very few Christians apply what Jesus and Paul taught about about morality. They would be foolish if they did.
A very derogatory statement. I take it you have a personal issue with Christian morality.

Why would God rely on "middle men" to let others know what he wants? It opens us to being deceived by false prophets. If God can speak directly to a few people, then he can speak directly to all of us.
God is far too high to communicate directly with anyone. Only special individuals, including Jesus, are chosen, but for Christians, he also communicates by the Spirit.

I know that nobody has any real miracles. That includes you.
You're beginning to sound like a committed atheist. But in reality you know nothing; as for you, it is all conjecture.

I've investigated many miracles. I know of no genuine cases of miracles.
Whatever you say.

I'm not so sure about the percentages of people who are fooled by fake miracles, but it's only necessary to fool enough people. I used to be in that "enough" category. Now I'm no longer a believer, and I love it!

Sorry, I don't believe any of those miracles ever happened.

As I said in the OP, believing in miracles can hurt people and even kill them. The danger is your own.

I will do that if he ever shows up. In the meantime, I will be wary of the crafty people who claim to speak for him.

But that's so illogical. If God refuses to heal people, then they'll end up even more skeptical. Do you actually think about what you're saying?
God doesn't miraculously heal committed atheists. Many of them he afflicts and punishes for that lack of faith. So be warned.

But you've never had any miraculous healing.

I don't have a crowd. I think for myself.

I'll believe it when I see it.

I've read it. What about it?

I've read more books written by Christians than I can remember. The only thing miraculous about them is that anybody believes them.
Well, since you know everything there is to know, I think it best if we terminate our discussion as it's going nowhere.
 
I was badly injured in an accident in 1977 when I was fifteen years old. About ten years later I got involved with some Pentecostal Christians who told me that God could heal my injuries and restore me to fitness. I believed them, and I read the Bible believing what it says about God, Christ, faith, prayer, and everything else. The promised miracles of healing and restoration never arrived. And the money I sent out to preachers like Oral Roberts never came back. If all that wasn't bad enough, I was ridiculed by both believers and unbelievers alike for believing what the preachers and the Bible says. About a year or two later I attempted suicide.

So whether you realize it or not you are hurting people when you espouse what the Bible says. You are hurting them badly, and some of those people die.

So what I would recommend to avoid these kinds of tragedies is keep your Christian beliefs to yourselves. Or if you do discuss those beliefs, then explain that they are your own personal beliefs that you cannot assure are good or true.

In other words, tell the truth.
So, you're blaming us for what cult members did to you?

How are we hurting people when we tell them what the Bible says?
 
Many only come hear to argue a narrow viewpoint and are uninterested in other points of view.


You can only find a perfect understanding of scripture as a continuing Christian or as a genuine inquirer. For those with an axe to grind, and / or are bent on seeing Christians as fools or duped, the outlook is bleak. Their hope lies with a future revelation from God, like Saul of Tarsus, which shouldn't be ruled out, but equally shouldn't be assumed.


It's not clear that this is the case.


Remind yourself of the highly derogatory terms in which Jesus and Paul addressed those who rejected faith.


Can't see it.


There is a difference between being quarrelsome and engaged in a debate. You're over-egging it by a long marguin at this point.
I came to argue a narrow viewpoint. :D

You think a person can hinder or improve their chances at salvation? Wow we've been trying to get that point across for 500 years.


Would it be quarrelsome if I accused you or anyone of not being interested in the truth? It looked obvious to me.

I'll call that bluff. Let me hear it from him, THE TRUTH, let him tell me he wasn't combative at all. Gentle and meek even.

All said and done Faith is Faith. I'm not buying a trust in God from what was stated. If you knows absolutely God has your back, you might even act like it.

Looking for loopholes around kindness and love makes the case look worst just on the principle of intentions.

Everyone is doing the best with what they have. Leave the accusations and fingerprinting to me and the demons, we are professionals at it.
 
I came to argue a narrow viewpoint. :D

You think a person can hinder or improve their chances at salvation? Wow we've been trying to get that point across for 500 years.

Would it be quarrelsome if I accused you or anyone of not being interested in the truth? It looked obvious to me.
If it has a germ of truth it is not quarrelsome. Unknownsoldier pretending to know everything about religion is however inherently absurd and false, when he knows so little.

I'll call that bluff. Let me hear it from him, THE TRUTH, let him tell me he wasn't combative at all. Gentle and meek even.

All said and done Faith is Faith. I'm not buying a trust in God from what was stated. If you knows absolutely God has your back, you might even act like it.

Looking for loopholes around kindness and love makes the case look worst just on the principle of intentions.
There is a view amongst pagans that Christians are people to be walked all over. However the bible doesn't hold that teaching, but advocates excommunication for many that are recalcitrant. This is an unusual place, where those who have zero/negative interest in religion can interact with those who do have a sincere interest.

Everyone is doing the best with what they have. Leave the accusations and fingerprinting to me and the demons, we are professionals at it.
 
There is a view amongst pagans that Christians are people to be walked all over.

Its a view amongst JESUS that Christians are people to be walked all over. There ain't no greater walking all over then for someone to kill my own son.

This is basic christianity.

38You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’o 39But I tell you not to resist an evil person. If someone slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also; 40if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well; 41and if someone forces you to go one mile,p go with him two miles.q 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

43You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor’r and ‘Hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,s 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Do not even tax collectors do the same? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even Gentiles do the same?


The only thing being walked over is our vanity and pride. He could be God or an angel for all we know.

You are suppose to be an ambassador of God, and GOD is begging HIM thru YOU. Its not about HIM begging God.

2 Corinthians 5:20
We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.

God is already reconciled thru Jesus, Its about him reconciling to God.

You should be happy, joyful, calm and relaxed.

God is humble and calls you to be humble. We don't have to be combative with them.

God loves pagans too. We quote pagan scriptures like the poem of Zeus: 28For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Its not US vs THEM. God is Love, if you can tell the difference between Love and God then we still got plenty to learn about both. Love is kind, Love is patient.

The odds stacked against you? thats nothing new. Faith takes faith.

Is smoking weed a sin?
 
So, you're blaming us for what cult members did to you?
That's obviously a loaded question. You want to distance yourself from the Christians who practice faith healing which as we all know originated in the New Testament. The basis for my belief in faith healing was rooted in my study of the Bible. I read in the Gospels that Jesus was a faith healer as were his apostles.

Anyway, you can free yourself from guilt easily enough. Just repudiate belief in God healing people. Set people straight telling them that it doesn't work. That way more people need not suffer and die from that kind of quackery.
How are we hurting people when we tell them what the Bible says?
In regard to belief in miraculous healing, like I just got done saying it doesn't work. And since it doesn't work, then people waste their time and money on it forgoing legitimate health care. Doing so can worsen their condition and even kill them.
 
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