What I went through because of Christianity.

I was badly injured in an accident in 1977 when I was fifteen years old. About ten years later I got involved with some Pentecostal Christians who told me that God could heal my injuries and restore me to fitness. I believed them, and I read the Bible believing what it says about God, Christ, faith, prayer, and everything else. The promised miracles of healing and restoration never arrived.
Some pentecostals have some unorthodox beliefs. Even if they mean well, they can be decidedly ignorant. They are not the most reliable people to go to if you desire knowledge of biblical doctrines. It's hit and miss with them. You should never judge an entire religion so fast. Maladies & accidents arise because of sin, and separation from God. The point of suffering is to draw you to God so that he can deal with your sin. Every human church denomination would want you to join it, I imagine, but not all will be right for your needs.

The bible itself makes no offer of "promised miracles of [physical] healing and restoration" as to health after accidents. What it offers is spiritual healing, which may or may not lead to other things.

You may or may not have heard of Joni Eareckson Tada. She similarly had a bad accident, survived and overcame to become a committed Christian. She wrote a best-selling book. Worth an investigation.
 
Unknown Soldier:
I take your response here as your saying no, despite the injustices I've explained come from your religious beliefs and practices you will nevertheless continue on your course full speed ahead because you hope it all can still benefit you. Is that correct?
I'm confused by your response. I would always share what I believe to be true. I'm more seasoned than I was as youth. There exists charlatans, false prophets and well meaning people who may or may not have a good or right understanding.
How do you distinguish the charlatans from true prophets? It should be apparent that it's darn hard to tell the difference. Some con artists take advantage of Christian faith because Christians are taught to believe in the miraculous powers of an all-powerful God. The supposed true prophets say the same thing, and the results are very often the same: Innocent people get hurt.
The confusing I have perhaps remaining is "how things would benefit me?"
I would say I may benefit in learning more about discernment throughout our exchanges. I may experience growth as a result of our exchanges.
I would hope that your growth involves the recognition that Christianity cannot and does not deliver on its promises of miraculous healing and that you make a habit of letting people know this fact. That way you can literally save lives.
Sadly when non-christians and Christians alike are hurt by the body of Christ or imposters of the body of Christ; the hurt is real and can result in how others act in response to Christianity or the Christian message.
It's good that people use their brains by recognizing the harm that Christian beliefs and practices have on people. They deserve a fair warning.
It doesn't necessitate the message is false just because people were harm prior to hearing the truth or a more truthful rendering than what another may have endured.
If the Bible's promised miracles never materialize, and they don't, then the message is false, of course.
As far as can God heal today? I'd say if he can, but that isn't normatively how God acts since the resurrection.
Well, if you think God can heal, then look for it. Let me know how that turns out. I'd bet my last cent that no such miracle will ever be established.
 
Some pentecostals have some unorthodox beliefs. Even if they mean well, they can be decidedly ignorant.
I agree, even Paul when I read his doctrine then compare it with what Jesus Said of his, I see discrepancies in comparisons.
They are not the most reliable people to go to if you desire knowledge of biblical doctrines.
Jesus trusted no man yet he was never suspicious, bitter,, never in despair about any man, he put God first in trust and absolutely trusted in what God Himself put in him and what Gods grace could do in any human being.
It's hit and miss with them.
As it is with all beliefs systems, denominations.
You should never judge an entire religion so fast.
Righteous judgment comes by having the mind of God to be anointed of Him where God Himself does the judging for you. .
Maladies & accidents arise because of sin, and separation from God.
Yes -- Sin simply is separation from God and not in His same spiritual image that He creates man to be.
The point of suffering is to draw you to God so that he can deal with your sin. Every human church denomination would want you to join it, I imagine, but not all will be right for your needs.
Agree and the goal for most of these belief systems it to fill a pew for enterprise and whoever is the best salesman from a pulpit,using the name of Christ as their chief selling point, wins the dollar.
The bible itself makes no offer of "promised miracles of [physical] healing and restoration" as to health after accidents. What it offers is spiritual healing, which may or may not lead to other things.
You are so spot on in that statement. God heals the mind first, then it is uo to the individual to follow through with happiness. One may does for the Grover with cancer or whatever, but one doesnt have to go there unhappy of themselves. Joy is in the Lord.
You may or may not have heard of Joni Eareckson Tada. She similarly had a bad accident, survived and overcame to become a committed Christian. She wrote a best-selling book. Worth an investigation.
I had a bad accident in 1966 and crushed the whole right side of my head. It took me a few years to decifer what transpired wen I expired from life on an operating table. I gave that testimony in anther reply in this OP if you care to read it. Post #5
 
That's a thought-provoking testimony, but I'm not sure what your point is or how it relates to the OP. What strikes me about testimonies like yours and mine is that there's a woeful lack of consistency in the Christian experience.
When I read of how Jesus came to know God in Matt 3:16 and all of His heaven, my experience was exactly the same. If there is an inconsistency it is due from lack in receiving the very same from God Himself in yourself. He cant be wrong, but opinions can be.
Sure, people like you testify as to the power, goodness, and truth of Christianity, but there's always other people who are not so happy with their own experience.
The key in what you said is unhappy by their own experiences. If God was involved in it then Joy would have been their outcome.
I would think it's not likely that a real God would be so inconsistent.
Many has a real god, it just isn't the same One who came to Jesus and opend in him who He is and all of His heaven. Jesus joy was never surpassed by mans beliefs, their evil works, false accusations and torture for crucifixion that Jesus suffered, in fact he said it was for this purpose that God sent him. He was made to be sin for the things he suffered. He was made to be sin by identification with it but never lost his Joy as being a son of God, nor does any of Gods sons.

I could be in a car accident today and paralyzed, but that would have no bearing for who I am in God and the joy of mind and peace that God puts in man. Did Jesus enjoy going to the cross? Evidently not for sweating blood is a good indication there was a great deal of stress involve. And what was his reply to this body suffering? Father forgive them they know not what they do.

We who has from God the same as Jesus did are the same in that respect.
 
I was badly injured in an accident in 1977 when I was fifteen years old. About ten years later I got involved with some Pentecostal Christians who told me that God could heal my injuries and restore me to fitness. I believed them, and I read the Bible believing what it says about God, Christ, faith, prayer, and everything else. The promised miracles of healing and restoration never arrived. And the money I sent out to preachers like Oral Roberts never came back. If all that wasn't bad enough, I was ridiculed by both believers and unbelievers alike for believing what the preachers and the Bible says. About a year or two later I attempted suicide.

So whether you realize it or not you are hurting people when you espouse what the Bible says. You are hurting them badly, and some of those people die.

So what I would recommend to avoid these kinds of tragedies is keep your Christian beliefs to yourselves. Or if you do discuss those beliefs, then explain that they are your own personal beliefs that you cannot assure are good or true.

In other words, tell the truth.
Paul prayed...he pleaded... 3 times to have his "thorn in the side" removed....and Jesus said “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”

God never promised miracles of healing and restoration.

Then again He did keep you from committing suicide. Right?
 
Paul prayed...he pleaded... 3 times to have his "thorn in the side" removed....and Jesus said “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”
That thorn was not physical but spiritual. He was clear that thorn was his desire to be exalted beyond measure for his abundance of revelations. Otherwise, he desired his name to be in the marque just as most preachers do.
God never promised miracles of healing and restoration.
That is what salvation of God is, restoring us back His original intent for man to be in His same image of Love, Holy Love , or Holy Spirit that Love is and that God is. For God is Love and man is the kingdom of Him. Luke 127:20-21.
Then again He did keep you from committing suicide. Right?
 
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I'm not sure what false teachings you are referring to, but church attendance, prayer, faith, Bible study and accepting Jesus as my Lord and Savior most Christians would consider to be genuine. Where was I going wrong?

They are things that genuine believers do.
But they are not sufficient for determining who is a "genuine believer".

Oh, the gall to think you understand our religion better than we do!
 
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What you described is not from God that it should be counted as some kind of inconsistency with God. Your argument is with the false teachings of Christianity, not the real ones. I mean insofar as that particular testimony you shared goes.
Is the miraculous, healing power of God through Jesus a false teaching? I read it in the Bible as prompted by faith healers. It was the beginning of my woes.
 
They are things that genuine believers do.
But they are not sufficient for determining who is a "genuine believer".

Oh, the gall to think you understand our religion better than we do!
I'm not an elephant, but I think I understand elephants better than they understand themselves. I was a Christian, I've read the Bible, I know what it says about miraculous healing, and no number of lies meant to cover up that fact will ever deceive me.
 
I'm not an elephant, but I think I understand elephants better than they understand themselves. I was a Christian, I've read the Bible,

You clearly didn't understand it.
And you've given me no confidence that you even understand it now.

I know what it says about miraculous healing,

Okay... Share woith us YOUR understanding of what it says about "miraculous heailng".

Does it say that God will ALWAYS heal all sickness or injury?
Nope.

Does it say that God will answer ALL prayer with "yes"?
Nope.

As another Christian explained to you, God will NOT heal all problems (but look at the faith of Joni Earreckson Tada or Nick Vujicic), but He WILL give us the emotional strength to deal with it.

It sounds to me that have made (and are making) a very common error in Bible study. Someone told you what the Bible says, you believed it (or wanted to believe it), and so you searched the Bible to TRY to find it, and if you found anything close, you PROJECTED your desired understanding onto Scripture.

and no number of lies meant to cover up that fact will ever deceive me.

So anyone who disagrees with you is a "liar" trying to "deceive" you.
Clearly you missed the Biblical teaching on "charity".
 
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You can have whatever God promises where there is faith.
Nope. That's false, and it's the deception that almost killed me.
Sometimes God doesn't give faith, or waits to give it. And sometimes God gives faith but we don't receive it and reject it instead.
Again, that's exactly what the faith healers told me. It's a scam that includes an escape clause that kicks in when it proves to not work: Blame the sick person!
Believers being sustained in their suffering doesn't always mean it ends well. It means they can endure it. There is faith to endure, and there is faith to be delivered. Both are from God. Not from us. What we do is either receive it or reject it.
If I had my way, I'd allow victims of this kind of quackery to press criminal charges against faith healers and sue them for medical malpractice.
You went wrong in two ways. First you were led astray by man's perversion of the true 'prosperity' gospel (God does in fact prosper his people)...
Actually, I read all of that "perversion" in the Bible. The reason the faith healers get away with their scams is because they get it out of the Bible.
...and then you abandoned what you are saying was a genuine Christian experience because of it.
I abandoned a hoax that was destroying me. There's nothing genuine about it.
Then why would you abandon a real relationship with God? Except that perhaps you didn't like the truth of that real relationship? In your case, that you won't be healed. And so you left a genuine faith in God. I won't speculate beyond that. You tell me.
There's no real God involved in Christianity. People make up the Gods to take advantage of others and to hurt them.
You believed false teaching, but worse, you left an experience that by your own testimony was real. How can you not be blamed for this?
You can blame anybody you want. Obviously you need to do so in a vain attempt to save your religion. It's not working, though, because I've found that people just aren't falling for these miracle claims anymore. That's why we see former church buildings being turned into stores and office buildings these days. I hope this trend continues.
 
If that's faith, then I don't want faith.

So if "faith" doesn't result in your becoming a millionaire, and in perfect health, and grand prizes being showered on your every day, then you "don't want faith"?

And you want us to believe that you've actually read and understoood the Bible?
Wow.
 
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Nope. That's false, and it's the deception that almost killed me.

Nope, that is NOT "false", since God NEVER promised to heal you.

Again, that's exactly what the faith healers told me. It's a scam that includes an escape clause that kicks in when it proves to not work: Blame the sick person!

If the faith healers were mistaken, then that is their fault.
If the faith healers were dishonest with you, that is their fault.
If you blindly beileved their claims, then that is YOUR fault.

If millions of other pastors NEVER promised you anything, and had nothing to do with your situation, then it is NOT their fault.

And falsely blaming them when they did nothing wrong to you IS YOUR fault as well.

If I had my way, I'd allow victims of this kind of quackery to press criminal charges against faith healers and sue them for medical malpractice.

Did any of them claim to be doctors?
If not, then you can't sue them for "medical malpractice".

And guess what?
Blindly believing them, even though they weren't medical professionals, is (once again), YOUR fault.

There's no real God involved in Christianity.

You will learn how VERY wrong you are, when you die, if not earlier.

You can blame anybody you want.

Just like YOU are doing.
You are blaming pastors and the Bible for YOUR poor decision-making, and your ignorance of the Bible.
 
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If miraculous healing isn't real,

Now I understand why you don't understand the Bible.
You clearly have difficulty understanding plain English.

I NEVER said that "miraculous healing isn't real".
I only said that it is not "available on demand".

then why would any sensible person believe Christians when they threaten good people like me

Well, there are a number of things to unpack from that.

1) God says are not a "good person". And Mosaic Law proves it.

Luke 18:19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
Rom. 3:10 as it is written,
THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”

We Christians have a little joke:

Q) "Why do bad things happen to good people?"
A) "That only happened once. And He volunteered."

Of course, that's a reference to Jesus. None of us are "good", we are all sinners, worthy of nothing but eternal punishment for the sins we've committed against God. That's the reason we are in such great need of the gospel.

when they threaten good people like me with hell?

Nobody's "threatening" you.
We are simply warning you of the danger you face by continuing to rebel against God. It could only be a "threat" if we were in control of whether or not it happened, and we have zero control over that, only God does.

It is no more of a threat than saying:

"If you try to fly from Atlanta Georgia to Spain in a Cessna 152, you are going to drown in the ocean."​

I don't WANT you to drown in the ocean.
And I don't WANT you to spend eternity in hell.
Which is why we're warning you, because we don't want to see that happen.
But that's the limit of our control, since ultimately it depends on the decision YOU make.
 
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I don't WANT you to drown in the ocean.
And I don't WANT you to spend eternity in hell.
Which is why we're warning you, because we don't want to see that happen.
But that's the limit of our control, since ultimately it depends on the decision YOU make.
So you've finally rejected Calvinism? Good!
 
Now I understand why you don't understand the Bible.
It is a really weird, confusing book, is it not? Not to mention that it's HUGE--most printed copies are well over 1,000 pages long. And it's not organized and was written in ancient languages that very few people nowadays can read. Is it any wonder why almost nobody can agree on what it says, and people are always fighting over it? But of course, some people think they're experts on it with little to show for it.
You clearly have difficulty understanding plain English.

I NEVER said that "miraculous healing isn't real".
I know you didn't say that. You'd be letting the cat out of the bag if you did say so. But of course, it was I who posted the fact that faith healing isn't real.
I only said that it is not "available on demand".
So I've noticed. In addition to miraculous healing, we don't get ghosts, ETs, or BigFoot on demand either. The gullible remain patient to see all of them.
Well, there are a number of things to unpack from that.

1) God says are not a "good person". And Mosaic Law proves it.

Luke 18:19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
Rom. 3:10 as it is written,
THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”
I'm afraid that's all wrong. Most people are good people most of the time.
We Christians have a little joke:

Q) "Why do bad things happen to good people?"
A) "That only happened once. And He volunteered."

Of course, that's a reference to Jesus. None of us are "good", we are all sinners, worthy of nothing but eternal punishment for the sins we've committed against God. That's the reason we are in such great need of the gospel.
Speak for yourself. I've often wondered if a lot of evil people are attracted to Christianity as a way to justify their evil. It sure looks that way to me.
Nobody's "threatening" you.
We are simply warning you of the danger you face by continuing to rebel against God. It could only be a "threat" if we were in control of whether or not it happened, and we have zero control over that, only God does.
I've looked into the Christian dogma of hell, and I've found that it's basically plagiarized mythology that's meant to frighten the ignorant into belief.
It is no more of a threat than saying:

"If you try to fly from Atlanta Georgia to Spain in a Cessna 152, you are going to drown in the ocean."​

I don't WANT you to drown in the ocean.
And I don't WANT you to spend eternity in hell.
Which is why we're warning you, because we don't want to see that happen.
But that's the limit of our control, since ultimately it depends on the decision YOU make.
I'd say a better analogy is to tell people that you have a powerful space-alien on your side, and if those people don't believe in your space-alien, then they will be transported to an ice planet to be tortured by energy rays.
 
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