What is Compatibilism?

Sketo

Well-known member
were gathered together... For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
thy hand and thy counsel” = Great attention to detail: very careful and precise.
The very definition of Meticulous.

“determined to be done” = “determined to be done”

Gods Meticulous Determination compatible with voluntary acts!

Great post Brightfame52
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Take your glasses off and you might see better.

Agreed...

For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. - Mark 7:21-22


The source does not necessarily have to be God, as you assume, in order for God to determine if the act comes to pass or not!

Not necessary (see above)

I agree God did not give the desire to kill Christ

They do not equate!

Incorrect conclusion!
Sorry but if it not from God he did not determine it

It is no more than sophistry to claim God did not do it himself but used secondary source so it is not from God

The difference is comparable to the one who murders and the one hiring the murderer

Both are guilty

If it not from God then he is not involved in causing it to happen

it is that simple
 
T

TomFL

Guest
thy hand and thy counsel” = Great attention to detail: very careful and precise.
The very definition of Meticulous.

“determined to be done” = “determined to be done”

Gods Meticulous Determination compatible with voluntary acts!

Great post Brightfame52
Its based on the logical fallacy

That a determined act of God for redemption proves God determined all the sin that required redemption

It simply does not follow and that verse is insufficient to prove God determines all sin
 

Sketo

Well-known member
Sorry but if it not from God he did not determine it
Does not equate!
It is no more than sophistry to claim God did not do it himself but used secondary source so it is not from God
Then your belief is not compatible with scripture! It’s that simple!

As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it (their “evil”) for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today. - Genesis 50:20

Meant = Intend (something) to occur or to be the case

For example, God is said to specifically ordain the crucifixion of His Son, and yet evil men voluntarily crucify Him (see Acts 2:23 & 4:27-28). This voluntary of evil act is not free from God's decree, but it is voluntary, according to these Texts.

Or when Joseph's brothers sold him into slavery in Egypt, Joseph later recounted that what his brothers intended for evil, God intended for good (Gen 50:20).

God determines and ordains that these events will take place (that Joseph will be sold into slavery), yet the brothers voluntarily make the evil choice that beings it to pass, which means the sin is imputed to Joseph's brothers for the wicked act, and God remains blameless.

In both of these cases, it could be said that God ordains sin, sinlessly. Nothing occurs apart from His sovereign good pleasure.

The difference is comparable to the one who murders and the one hiring the murderer

Both are guilty
What his brothers intended for evil, God intended for good (Gen 50:20).

If there is no other way, than your way, then either God is “guilty” of the brothers evil intent...
or...
your way is not compatible to scripture!

If it not from God then he is not involved in causing it to happen
Is the brothers “intended evil” from God?
Is God “involved in causing it to happen” “for good”?

Your conclusion is not compatible with “God intended it”!
it is that simple
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Does not equate!

Then your belief is not compatible with scripture! It’s that simple!

As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it (their “evil”) for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today. - Genesis 50:20

Meant = Intend (something) to occur or to be the case

For example, God is said to specifically ordain the crucifixion of His Son, and yet evil men voluntarily crucify Him (see Acts 2:23 & 4:27-28). This voluntary of evil act is not free from God's decree, but it is voluntary, according to these Texts.

Or when Joseph's brothers sold him into slavery in Egypt, Joseph later recounted that what his brothers intended for evil, God intended for good (Gen 50:20).

God determines and ordains that these events will take place (that Joseph will be sold into slavery), yet the brothers voluntarily make the evil choice that beings it to pass, which means the sin is imputed to Joseph's brothers for the wicked act, and God remains blameless.

In both of these cases, it could be said that God ordains sin, sinlessly. Nothing occurs apart from His sovereign good pleasure.


What
his brothers intended for evil, God intended for good (Gen 50:20).

If there is no other way, than your way, then either God is “guilty” of the brothers evil intent...
or...
your way is not compatible to scripture!


Is the brothers “intended evil” from God?
Is God “involved in causing it to happen” “for good”?

Your conclusion is not compatible with “God intended it”!
Sorry you are still committing a logical fallacy

in assuming God employing the sinful desires of man to achieve a good purpose in one example proves God determines all sin

Its not logical

It makes no sense

It does not follow

and it is not biblical
 

Sketo

Well-known member
Sorry you are still committing a logical fallacy

in assuming God employing the sinful desires of man to achieve a good purpose in one example proves God determines all sin
No! It does not matter if God “determines all sin” or “just one sin”!
In your view it makes God “guilty” with just one example!

This one example proves... your view is incompatible with scripture...
TomFL said:
The difference is comparable to the one who murders and the one hiring the murderer

Both are guilty

All it takes is “one example”!

As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it (their “evil”) for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today. - Genesis 50:20

Meant = Intend (something) to occur or to be the case

This “one example”, from the word of God, proves...

If there is no other way, than your way, then either God is “guilty” of the brothers evil intent... (as you stated above)
or...
your way is not compatible to scripture!
 
T

TomFL

Guest
No! It does not matter if God “determines all sin” or “just one sin”!
In your view it makes God “guilty” with just one example!

This one example proves... your view is incompatible with scripture...


All it takes is “one example”!



This “one example”, from the word of God, proves...

If there is no other way, than your way, then either God is “guilty” of the brothers evil intent... (as you stated above)
or...
your way is not compatible to scripture!
Nonsense

Your claim is totally illogical

God using ones evil sinful desires for a good purpose does not justify a claim God determined all sins including those sinful desires
 

Sketo

Well-known member
Nonsense

Your claim is totally illogical

God using ones evil sinful desires for a good purpose does not justify a claim God determined all sins including those sinful desires
The verse does not say “using”!
It’s the same word ascribed to both God and the brothers!

As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it (their “evil”) for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today. - Genesis 50:20

Meant = Intend (something) to occur or to be the case

חָשַׁב
châshab
khaw-shab'

A primitive root; properly to plait or interpenetrate, that is, (literally) to weave or (generally) to fabricate; figuratively to plot or contrive (usually in a malicious sense); hence (from the mental effort) to think, regard, value, compute: - (make) account (of), conceive, consider, count, cunning (man, work, workman), devise, esteem, find out, forecast, hold, imagine, impute, invent, be like, mean, purpose, reckon (-ing be made), regard, think.
Total KJV occurrences: 124


For example, God is said to specifically ordain the crucifixion of His Son, and yet evil men voluntarily crucify Him (see Acts 2:23 & 4:27-28). This voluntary of evil act is not free from God's decree, but it is voluntary, according to these Texts.

Or when Joseph's brothers sold him into slavery in Egypt, Joseph later recounted that what his brothers intended for evil, God intended for good (Gen 50:20).

God determines and ordains that these events will take place (that Joseph will be sold into slavery), yet the brothers voluntarily make the evil choice that beings it to pass, which means the sin is imputed to Joseph's brothers for the wicked act, and God remains blameless.

In both of these cases, it could be said that God ordains sin, sinlessly. Nothing occurs apart from His sovereign good pleasure.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
The verse does not say “using”!
It’s the same word ascribed to both God and the brothers!

As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it (their “evil”) for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today. - Genesis 50:20

Meant = Intend (something) to occur or to be the case

so what he still used their evil desire

I repeat your claim is not logical

God using an evil desire for a good purpose simply is not proof he determines all sin

Its a total leap of logic and a complete non sequitur
'
 
Top