What is God proclaiming in these scriptures?

This is why the true gospel is about not sinning rather than the counterfeit gospel which tells everyone they can sin with impunity. Those who truly detest their sin don't want to hear anyone tell them that they can continue to sin with impunity.

That misses the true point.

Old vs. New covenants is Law/letter by man's knowledge and own willpower vs. Spirit/power of God in us creating a new divine nature that is free from sin.

Those who are born again do not sin. They cannot when they abide in Christ. Sinning is not in the new nature.

The letter of the law kills, but the Spirit of the law of life in Christ brings life. So how do you instinctively keep the Spirit of the Sabbath from your heart, without keeping it by the letter that kills from your mind? I'll tell you how. By being baptized in the Holy Spirit of God, that's how. Jesus, the Creator of everything, abides inside the born again, and we cannot sin because we have the seed of the Father inside of us. I'm only speaking of "Christians" that have been born again and keep the Spirit of the law, with the laws of God's love written on our hearts and in our minds. To love God with all our strength, mind and heart, and love our neighbor as ourselves. Abiding in Jesus and He in me is how to keep the Spirit of the Sabbath, by keeping the Creator, the substance of the Sabbath day, inside me. He is the Spirit of Christ. And the Spirit of the LAW. With the God of the universe in me, I can do anything through Christ who strengthens me. That includes being righteous and holy.

I still refer to the Old Testament in regards to remarriage, and incestuous marriage between close relatives and sorcery, etc. just as Paul repeated in the New Covenant sins of the flesh lists in Galatians 5:19-21. But not the actual covenant commandments, Exodus 34:28. The New Covenant actually takes away our sin nature. That is the difference. Not the morality of the commandments, but the power to keep moral from our Spirit-filled conscience. 1 John 3:21-24. Also, the Sabbath was the sign of the old covenant, fashioned to only be kept by the letter of the law, therefore will end and not brought forward to the New Covenant, whereas the blood of Jesus represented in the Cup of the New Testament is the NEW sign of the covenant. That blood is what took away our sin nature - where sin dwelt, and the need for the laws to be kept or die. And the fruit of the Spirit is what will keep us pure.
 
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The rebirth has everything to do with Christ's death and resurrection.

Romans 6:
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

In God's capacity to create, He creates a new creature. The new creation is righteous, and created for righteousness. The new creature in Christ is not capable of sinning.

So, essentially believers are to believe, do and say what He alone says about us and not what anyone else?
 
Is it what "God" proclaims or what "we say" that believers are to believe? because according to what "God" proclaims; "the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us ('believers') from all sin". So, is His proclamation here that "the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin" and "he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" OR that we are sinners even after we become believers?

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— 3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete.
5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1-10
1 John 1
5This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

First John establishes that God is Light and that in Him there is NO darkness. Then John establishes a stipulation that IF we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the light, only then does Jesus cleanse us from all sin. The cleansing is conditional. Then John elaborates on this sin that Jesus cleanses in 8-10. In 8-10 John is speaking of the sin committed PRIOR to walking in the Light. The sin is cleansed only IF we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the light which is true only IF we do not commit sin.

The author of 1 John makes it abundantly clear later
1 John 3
5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Logically speaking in order for "the blood of Jesus Christ" to "cleanseth us from all sin" one must "walk in the light, as he is in the light". This requires that one not commit sin, since "God is light, and in him is no darkness at all"; "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not"; and "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin".

Clearly, according to the author of 1 John, only those who do not commit sin "walk in the light, as he is in the light" and have their sins cleansed.
 
First John establishes that God is Light and that in Him there is NO darkness. Then John establishes a stipulation that IF we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the light, only then does Jesus cleanse us from all sin. The cleansing is conditional. Then John elaborates on this sin that Jesus cleanses in 8-10. In 8-10 John is speaking of the sin committed PRIOR to walking in the Light. The sin is cleansed only IF we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the light which is true only IF we do not commit sin.

Great post.

I would add also that there are many who know all about Jesus and believe who He is (just like Satan does), and keep the Ten Commandments, so not only does one have to walk as someone in the light, but they know they can't truly keep God's commandments until you first have the Spirit of Christ dwelling on the inside of us. That takes true repentance and the desire to be totally purged of all sin. Psa. 51. THEN you shall receive God on the inside. It is the Spirit on the inside that empowers us to walk in the light without struggling (as the guy struggled under the law in Romans 7:14-23)
 
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Great post.

I would add also that there are many who know all about Jesus and believe who He is (just like Satan does), and keep the Ten Commandments, so not only does one have to walk as someone in the light, but they know they can't truly keep God's commandments until you first have the Spirit of Christ dwelling on the inside of us. That takes true repentance and the desire to be totally purged of all sin. Psa. 51. THEN you shall receive God on the inside. It is the Spirit on the inside that empowers us to walk in the light without struggling (as the guy struggled under the law in Romans 7:14-23)

Please clarify, do you think that Satan and unbelievers believes the same thing that believers and Christ believe about God? I don't think that Satan and unbelievers believe the same thing as believers and Christ do about God, because if they did they too would know God.

I believe Christ is truth incarnate and believing as he does causes the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and opens up the reality of God to His children.
 
So, essentially believers are to believe, do and say what He alone says about us and not what anyone else?
I think the text is quite clear when it says that the new creation was created for righteous works. Fish are created to swim. Birds are created to fly. Pretty simple.
 
I think the text is quite clear when it says that the new creation was created for righteous works. Fish are created to swim. Birds are created to fly. Pretty simple.

I would agree; it is quite clear that it is only what God thinks and says about His children that matters. And not what man ("we") think or say about His children that matters, when if what "we"(man) think or say is contrary to what God thinks and says about believers.
 
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Great post.

I would add also that there are many who know all about Jesus and believe who He is (just like Satan does), and keep the Ten Commandments, so not only does one have to walk as someone in the light, but they know they can't truly keep God's commandments until you first have the Spirit of Christ dwelling on the inside of us. That takes true repentance and the desire to be totally purged of all sin. Psa. 51. THEN you shall receive God on the inside. It is the Spirit on the inside that empowers us to walk in the light without struggling (as the guy struggled under the law in Romans 7:14-23)
I was surprised to see you quoting Romans 5 earlier in this thread. You don't like Paul and you have gone so far as to tell us that Paul defied God deliberately. In fact, you told us that God personally told you this.

Here are your words:

"Paul wrote to Timothy. That is what I mean. And I'm not saying I don't agree with anything in the two letters to Timothy, but regarding women, when Paul said I DON'T ALLOW, that is not a commandment from God. Besides, I did ask God about that years ago, and immediately He said, I didn't say that. And the knowledge that not everything Paul wrote was God breathed, BUT MOST OF IT IS."

You believe in sinless perfectionism which is a heresy.

You are not an orthodox trinitarian.

You do not believe the Bible except for you having a personal conversation with God when he supposedly said that his hand-picked apostle didn't tell the truth.


My Pastor says that anyone who engages in sinless perfection doesn't need an advocate or mediator. What a slap in the face to our Redeemer, Savior, Holy God.
 
Do you really believe it's better to commit adultery? Do you really believe committing adultery is an appropriate way of manifesting love?

Stoning for sins such as adultery spotlights how horrific sin truly is, and how important it was to a society that truly values the sanctity of marriage. Good luck finding anything close to that in Christianity today.

What you fail to comprehend is the true gravity of sin. Stoning was nowhere near as horrific as the true effects of sin.

You're making a classical error of logic. You're conflating the obligation of the law with the curse, or penalty for transgressing the law. Paul points to the "law that was added because of transgressions" which should never be conflated with the law that was transgressed.

You're also confusing the law that is meant to be kept with the law that is transgressed. See the difference yet? You're not referring to keeping the law at all which is telling,. and spotlights where your heart truly lies.

Moreover, under the New Covenant, God's chosen are given God's law implanted within their hearts for one primary reason, to keep God's law (see Jer. 31:31-34; Ezekiel 11;19; 36;25-27; Hebrews 8:9,10). This is what it means for those who "walk after the spirit do not fulfill the lust of the flesh" This is why "there remains no more sacrifice for sins".

This is why the true gospel is about not sinning rather than the counterfeit gospel which tells everyone they can sin with impunity. Those who truly detest their sin don't want to hear anyone tell them that they can continue to sin with impunity.


The point is under the new covenant LOVE--We are no longer under mosaic Law. That was the old covenant. Its like i said-If one has that love that Jesus spoke of it would already be written on that ones heart not to commit adultery on their mate, nor steal from their brothers, etc, etc, etc. Try stoning one to death today and see where it gets you-25 to life.
 
Great post.

I would add also that there are many who know all about Jesus and believe who He is (just like Satan does), and keep the Ten Commandments, so not only does one have to walk as someone in the light, but they know they can't truly keep God's commandments until you first have the Spirit of Christ dwelling on the inside of us. That takes true repentance and the desire to be totally purged of all sin. Psa. 51. THEN you shall receive God on the inside. It is the Spirit on the inside that empowers us to walk in the light without struggling (as the guy struggled under the law in Romans 7:14-23)
"First have the 'Spirit of Christ'"? It's an interesting thought , but not according to Jesus.

John 14
15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
16“And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you.
21“He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me; and he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him, and will disclose Myself to him.”
23Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and make Our abode with him. 24“He who does not love Me does not keep My words;

Note that Jesus calls it the "Spirit of truth" rather than the "Spirit of Christ". Also note that receiving the Spirit of Truth is conditional. It is only those who KEEP His commandments/word that will be given the Spirit of Truth and have God and Jesus abide in them. IF we KEEP His commandments/word which is true only IF we do not commit sin. Those who commit sin are breaking His commandments/word rather than keeping them.
 
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Please clarify, do you think that Satan and unbelievers believes the same thing that believers and Christ believe about God? I don't think that Satan and unbelievers believe the same thing as believers and Christ do about God, because if they did they too would know God.

I believe Christ is truth incarnate and believing as he does causes the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and opens up the reality of God to His children.

Satan knows God better than any Christian. He knew God so well he wanted to be God. Satan just didn't know the plan of redemption, otherwise he wouldn't have possessed people to have Jesus killed. The death of Jesus destroyed the works of the devil!

Unbelieving humans are totally ignorant.
 
"First have the 'Spirit of Christ'"? It's an interesting thought , but not according to Jesus.

John 14
15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
16“And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you.
21“He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me; and he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him, and will disclose Myself to him.”
23Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and make Our abode with him. 24“He who does not love Me does not keep My words;

Note that Jesus calls it the "Spirit of truth" rather than the "Spirit of Christ". Also note that receiving the Spirit of Truth is conditional. It is only those who KEEP His commandments/word that will be given the Spirit of Truth and have God and Jesus abide in them. IF we KEEP His commandments/word which is true only IF we do not commit sin. Those who commit sin are breaking His commandments/word rather than keeping them.


The Spirit (Holy Spirit) is the Spirit of Truth. Note in Romans 8:9 the Trinity of Spirit that we receive. Open your mind to all that is the Spirit of Christ. It is the Spirit of Truth that taught me this.

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

They are all inseparable.
 
The Spirit (Holy Spirit) is the Spirit of Truth. Note in Romans 8:9 the Trinity of Spirit that we receive. Open your mind to all that is the Spirit of Christ.

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

They are all inseparable.
Paul may have call it the "Spirit of Christ", but Jesus called it the "Spirit of truth" - which was one point.

Another point was that what I quoted from John 14 shows that one must first keep Jesus' commandments/words before receiving the Spirit of truth - not "first have the Spirit of Christ" as you surmised and that those who commit sin are breaking His commandments/word rather than keeping them.
 
Satan knows God better than any Christian.

That's not true. He knows that God exists, but he has no relationship with or to God. Satan is the first schizophrenic, he denies the truth and reality of God and thus is excluded from believing and knowing the truth and reality of God.

If Satan knew God like Christ and believers do; then Satan too would be a believer. So, is Satan a believer?

Believers share the same beliefs and knowledge (faith) of God with Christ, this is what makes believers children of God like Jesus.

Does Satan share the same beliefs and knowledge (faith) of God with Christ as believers do?

He knew God so well he wanted to be God.

That's not true. And if Satan "knew God so well", then how come he doesn't know that he can't be God? I know this because I know God through and with Christ. So, how come Satan doesn't know this? It would seem then that I know God better than Satan does.

Satan just didn't know the plan of redemption, otherwise he wouldn't have possessed people to have Jesus killed. The death of Jesus destroyed the works of the devil!

If Satan "possessed people to have Jesus killed" and "the death of Jesus destroyed the works of the devil" and he also "didn't know the plan of redemption", then he also obviously doesn't know God does he? A big part of knowing and having a relationship with God is knowing what He is doing. And even through the Scriptures foretold of what God is doing, he still didn't know killing Christ sealed his own fate did he? You give Satan much more power than he really possesses, because he only has the power that you give him by not believing and knowing the truth about God.

Unbelieving humans are totally ignorant.

Unbelieving humans are like their father the devil, he was always and will always be ignorant of God's plan like the unbeliever, a matter of fact I think it is accurate to say that Satan is the first unbeliever aka the father of unbelievers.
 
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The point is under the new covenant LOVE--We are no longer under mosaic Law.
This is about the vaguest claim one can make. What do you mean when you claim you are no longer under the Mosaic law? When were you ever under the Mosaic law? Paul says the whole world judged, but by what standard? Does God have a double standard?
That was the old covenant.
Perhaps you haven't read what Paul actually says when he points to "the ministration of death" Do you understand what the difference is between an administration versus what is administered?
Its like i said-If one has that love that Jesus spoke of it would already be written on that ones heart not to commit adultery on their mate, nor steal from their brothers, etc, etc, etc.
So how does that change anything other than the fact that they no longer sin??? There is no point in writing God's law on one's heart if they continue to sin.
Try stoning one to death today and see where it gets you-25 to life.
Again,you're referring to "penalty", or "curse" of the law. You're referring to "the law that was added because of transgressions", and that law is no longer relevant to those who no longer sin. Paul points out that those who "walk after the spirit do not fulfil the lust of the flesh", hence there is no need for punitive laws. That only applies to those who "walk after the spirit". For them, "there remains no more sacrifice for sins". That doesn't apply to those who continue to sin. Those who continue to sin are not functioning by the New Covenant which is by "promise" rather than by "will or effort" (Romans 9:16) Christians readily admit that they can't keep the law because they're relying upon their own will and effort. That's not the New Covenant. That's the OLD Covenant.
 
Paul may have call it the "Spirit of Christ", but Jesus called it the "Spirit of truth" - which was one point.

Another point was that what I quoted from John 14 shows that one must first keep Jesus' commandments/words before receiving the Spirit of truth - not "first have the Spirit of Christ" as you surmised and that those who commit sin are breaking His commandments/word rather than keeping them.

Do you really believe that we could receive the Spirit of Truth before Jesus died, rose again, left and sent back the Comforter - His Spirit? Paul also showed that the commandments that Jesus was talking about are His teachings. 1 John 3:23. Not the commandments of the Father. John 15:10.

We are not under Law but under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ. Romans 8:2 which frees us from sin.
 
That's not true. He knows that God exists, but he has no relationship with or to God. Satan is the first schizophrenic, he denies the truth and reality of God and thus is excluded from believing and knowing the truth and reality of God.

If Satan knew God like Christ and believers do; then Satan too would be a believer. So, is Satan a believer?

Believers share the same beliefs and knowledge (faith) of God with Christ, this is what makes believers children of God like Jesus.

Does Satan share the same beliefs and knowledge (faith) of God with Christ as believers do?



That's not true. And if Satan "knew God so well", then how come he doesn't know that he can't be God. I know this because I know God through and with Christ. So, how come Satan doesn't know this? It would seem then that I know God better than Satan does.



If Satan "possessed people to have Jesus killed" and "the death of Jesus destroyed the works of the devil" and he also "didn't know the plan of redemption", then he also obviously doesn't know God does he? A big part of knowing and having a relationship with God is knowing what He is doing. And even through the Scriptures foretold of what God is doing, he still didn't know killing Christ sealed his own fate did he? You give Satan much more power than he really possesses, because he only has the power that you give him by not believing and knowing the truth and reality of God.



Unbelieving humans are like their father the devil, he was always and will always be ignorant of God's plan like the unbeliever, a matter of fact I think it is accurate to say that Satan is the first unbeliever aka the father of unbelievers.

Satan was in His presence. But you are right, God wasn't abiding in Him.
 
Do you really believe that we could receive the Spirit of Truth before Jesus died, rose again, left and sent back the Comforter - His Spirit? Paul also showed that the commandments that Jesus was talking about are His teachings. 1 John 3:23. Not the commandments of the Father. John 15:10.

We are not under Law but under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ. Romans 8:2 which frees us from sin.
Paul claimed a lot of things that fly in the face of the words spoken by Jesus while He preached His gospel. Why do you choose to place the words of those other than Jesus above His words?

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day." John 12

It is by the words spoken by Jesus while He preached His gospel that will judge us. Not the words of Paul. Not the words of anyone else.
 
Paul claimed a lot of things that fly in the face of the words spoken by Jesus while He preached His gospel. Why do you choose to place the words of those other than Jesus above His words?

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day." John 12

It is by the words spoken by Jesus while He preached His gospel that will judge us. Not the words of Paul. Not the words of anyone else.

Jesus made Paul an apostle and gave him hidden mysteries that Jesus didn't preach to man, but through His apostles. You've just shown your hand, and I see you do not accept Paul, so are missing out on half of our New Covenant.
 
Satan was in His presence. But you are right, God wasn't abiding in Him.

That's right, Satan never possessed God's Spirit and that is what makes believers a child of God. It always was a part of God's plan, Satan didn't blindside God, rather it is and was always the means by which He creates us in "His image".

Have you ever taken a course in apologetics or logic?
 
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