What Is Grace?

Kade Rystalmane

Well-known member
Ephesians 2:5 - "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; )"

Whenever I am invited into a new group of people in the context of Bible, whether online or in person, I always begin with a single question. What is Grace? Almost without fail the response is: "Grace is unmerited favor." (or sometimes "Grace is an unearned gift from God.")

While this is the definition of the word, this is not the question I am asking. What is the unearned gift that God gave that saves? I'm asking about its identity. If you stop and think about it for a moment, it's really very simple. The problem is, that so many people have made it complicated that misunderstanding what God's Grace is has become the foundation for most of the error taught concerning salvation.

I. Some basic statistics.

  • "grace" is found in the KJV:- 171 times in 160 verses.
  • 40 times in 38 verses in the Old Testament.
  • 131 times in 122 verses in the New Testament.
  • Hebrew -> khane and tekh-in-naw'
  • Greek - > khares (or charis)

II. What Grace Is NOT:

1. Grace is not indefinable or some nebulous SOMETHING. If Grace is what saves us from sin (Eph. 2:5) and we can know what sets us free from sin because Jesus said that we will know the truth and the truth will set us free from sin (John 8:32), then we can know what Grace is. Below is an analogous equation based on Ephesians 2:8. For by grace are you saved through faith. If Grace equals flour and faith equals water then saved equals bread.
  • Grace + Faith = Saved (Eph. 2:8)
  • Flour + Water = Bread
Below we use mathematical substitution to show what would happen if Grace were the things that it is sometimes said to be.

2. Grace is not salvation: Eph. 2:8 (Titus 2:11) Substituting Salvation for Grace in the equation we get:
  • Salvation + Faith = Saved
  • Bread + Water = Soggy Bread (watered down salvation?)
3. Grace is not individual faith: Eph. 2:8 Substituting individual faith for Grace in the equation we get:
  • Faith + Faith = Saved
  • Water + Water = Water
4. Grace alone can't save us
  • Grace != Saved
  • Flour != Bread
Grace alone means a lack of faith. But Hebrews 11:6 says that without faith we can not please God.

5. Grace is not the Old Law Grace is a contrast to the Old Testament in many of Paul's letters as well as the letter of Hebrews. Rom. 6:14; John 1:17; Gal. 2:21; 5:4
  • Old Testament + Faith = Saved
  • Not Flour + Water = Soggy something
6. Note that in Ephesians 2:8 that Grace is the gift of God in this passage. "It" is a pronoun referring back to a noun, specifically the subject of the previous phrase which is the word "Grace". The word "saved" is a verb so the gift of God is not "saved" (which doesn't make sense gramatically) but "saved" is a result of God's gift (grace) and man's (obedient) faith. The noun form of the word "saved", "salvation" is not in Ephesians 2:8.

I would even go so far, though I'm still studying this thoroughly, as to state that salvation itself is not a gift at all, but a result. I can't find a verse where salvation is ever spoken of as a gift. Eternal life is a gift, but eternal life is not the same concept as salvation although they are closely related. If someone can show me a passage where salvation IS spoken of as a gift, I would greatly appreciate it!

III. Properties of Grace:

A. A look at the properties of Grace according to Scripture.
  1. Grace saves us: (Eph. 2:8), justifies us: (Romans 3:24; Titus 3:7)
  2. Grace can be continued in: (Acts 13:43)
  3. Grace can be given (1 Cor. 1:4)
  4. Grace can be received (2 Cor. 6:1)
  5. Grace can be followed like a plan (1 Cor. 3:10)
  6. Grace can be fallen from: (Gal. 5:4)
  7. Grace can make us free from sin: (Eph 2:5)
  8. Grace can be given for the purpose of preaching: (Eph. 3:8)
  9. Grace can be ministered unto hearers: (Eph. 4:29)
  10. Grace teaches us: (Titus 2:11-12)
  11. Grace can be sung: (Col. 3:16)
  12. Grace can be in our hearts: (Col. 3:16)
  13. Grace is the opponent of sin: (Romans 5:21)
  14. Grace is in Christ: (1 Tim. 1:14)
  15. Grace calls us: (2 Tim. 1:9)
  16. Grace was prophecied: (1 Peter 1:10)
  17. Grace is brought by revelation: (1 Peter 1:13)
  18. Grace calls men to Christ: (Gal. 1:15)
  19. Grace is in contrast with the Law of Moses: (Rom. 6:14; John 1:17; Gal. 2:21; 5:4)
B. Another look at the same properties but called something other than Grace. Two things equal to the same thing are equal to each other. Two things with identical properties are the same two things. Properties of this other thing include:
  1. It saves us, justifies us: James 1:21; Gal. 2:16
  2. Can be continued in: John 8:31-32
  3. Can be given: John 17:14
  4. Can be received: James 1:21
  5. Can be followed like a plan: Romans 6:17
  6. Can be fallen from: 1 John 3:4
  7. Can make us free from sin: John 8:32; John 17:17
  8. Can be given for the purpose of preaching: 2 Timothy 4:2
  9. Can be ministered unto hearers: Romans 10:17
  10. Teaches us (doctrine): 2 Tim. 3:16-17; Col. 3:16
  11. Can be sung: 1 Cor. 14:15, Col. 3:16 (understand, teach)
  12. Can be in our hearts: Matt. 13:19; Heb. 8:10
  13. The opponent of sin: 1 John 3:4
  14. Is in Christ: Acts 24:24 (THE faith)
  15. Calls us: 2 Thess. 2:14
  16. Was prophecied: Jer. 31:33
  17. Is brought by revelation: Romans 1:16-17; Gal. 3:23
  18. Calls men to Christ 2 Thess. 2:14
  19. Is in contrast with the Law of Moses: (John 1:17; Heb. 8:8, 13; 12:24)

IV. By now it should be coming clear what Grace is.

Grace, that unearned gift from God that saves us is The Plan of Salvation, which includes: Christ's perfect life, death, burial, and resurrection. (Heb. 2:9)
The New Testament/gospel/New Covenant/Law of Liberty/etc.a. Compare Eph. 2:8 with 1 Peter 1:5 then Romans 1:6.b. Grace and the plan of salvation share all properties or have all properties in common. I've only listed these as the easiest to understand and to make the point.

John 4:10-15 - "10Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. 11The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? 12Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? 13Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: 14But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. 15The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw."

The living water here is the gospel (if I need to prove this to you, ask in the comments and I will). Yet Jesus begins by speaking about the gift of God. He said "If you knew the gift of God" and who she was talking to, she would have asked Him for a drink and He would have given her living water. If she knew the gift of God, why would she have asked Jesus for a drink? Because the living water, the doctrine of Jesus, is the gift of God! Here again is incontrovertible evidence that the grace of God that saves is the plan of salvation.

If I were to say “I am amazed that you have been so soon removed from the church of Christ unto another denomination…” you would look at me funny because you would hear me to be implying that the church of Christ is a denomination, right? Look then at Galatians 1:6 - I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: "...the grace of Christ unto another gospel..." This phrase logically implies that the grace of Christ is the gospel. They were removed from the calling of the gospel (Gal. 1:15; 2 Thes. 2:14) unto another gospel (another message) which verse 7 says is not a gospel at all but a perversion. If no other passage has been clear up until now, Galatians 1:6 must convince the reasonable person that the plan of salvation is God’s divine gift that saves us. The gospel is meaningless without Christ and Christ is ineffective in the hearts of men without the gospel (Romans 10:17; James 1:21; etc.).

Grace must be the plan of salvation and only that plan. It is that which causes salvation (I'll post up my thoughts soon on Cause and Conduit).

V. What do we do with this?

  • We must grow in grace: (2 Pet. 3:18)
  • We must be strong in grace: (2 Tim. 2:1)
  • Serve according to grace: (Heb. 12:28)
  • Minister that grace to others: (1 Peter 4:10-11)

VI. If you are not under Grace, under that contract that God has with man through faith to save us, then you must:

  1. Hear the Word – Romans 10:17; Romans 1:16
  2. Believe the Word – Mark 16:15-16
  3. Change your heart away from sin towards God – Luke 13:3
  4. Confess that Jesus is the Son of God – Romans 10:9-10; Acts 8:37
  5. Be immersed in water into Christ for the forgiveness of your sins – Acts 2:38; 1 Peter 3:21; Romans 6; Gal. 3:26-27
  6. This is a commitment to remain faithful to God and requires sacrifice, faithful living (Rev. 2:10). If there are those who have not lived up to this commitment, repent and be saved from death (James 5:19-20).
 

Saxon

Active member
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 not of works, lest any man should boast.

The term “grace” is used approximately 38 times in the Old Testament and 130 times in the New testament.

What is grace?

Definition of grace (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)
1a: unmerited divine assistance given to humans for their regeneration or sanctification
b: a virtue coming from God
c: a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine assistance
2a: approval, favor
stayed in his good graces
b archaic : mercy, pardon
c: a special favor : privilege

What does “unmerited” mean?
Definition of unmerited (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)
: not adequately earned or deserved : not merited

To remain faithful and true to the written word of God, “grace” is a virtue coming from God that is totally of his own volition and without any merit from the receiver of the said grace from God.

What is the grace of God?
The simple and obvious answer is grace, as described above, coming to us by the will of God.

First, a practical application of grace in every day life. When I was much younger than I am now, the banks used a term “3 days grace”. I don’t know if it is still used in these days of accelerated greed or not. What happened was when a loan was taken from a bank the payment, interest and payment date was set. If for some unforeseen reason the borrower could not make the payment on the agreed date the bank would wait 3 days before it would take any action against the loan account. There would be no charges to the principle or the interest if the payment was made within 3 business days after the set date. Three days of grace.

We are now blessed to be living in what some call the age of grace. For most of us it is a lifetime of grace, not just 3 days. Any time you “settle your account” before you die there is no charges standing against you if you continue living a Christian life, by the grace of God.

In simple terms, God’s Grace is as follows: God has an attitude of grace towards mankind and any one who has faith in his son Jesus, God, by his grace, saves them. (See Ephesians 2:8 and 9)

Your off definition of GRACE has nothing to do with the English term. You are trying to talk grapes but you are talking lemons. There is nothing in your post that has anything to do with grace; except you did spell it correctly.
 

Kade Rystalmane

Well-known member
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 not of works, lest any man should boast.

The term “grace” is used approximately 38 times in the Old Testament and 130 times in the New testament.

What is grace?

Definition of grace (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)
1a: unmerited divine assistance given to humans for their regeneration or sanctification
b: a virtue coming from God
c: a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine assistance
2a: approval, favor
stayed in his good graces
b archaic : mercy, pardon
c: a special favor : privilege

What does “unmerited” mean?
Definition of unmerited (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)
: not adequately earned or deserved : not merited

To remain faithful and true to the written word of God, “grace” is a virtue coming from God that is totally of his own volition and without any merit from the receiver of the said grace from God.
I have no disagreements up to this point. The plan of salvation was wholly from God, given without merit to man who neither earned it nor deserved it, and had no part in its development.
What is the grace of God?
The simple and obvious answer is grace, as described above, coming to us by the will of God.
But this doesn't identify it. It's nothing more than you saying grace is grace, which tells me nothing.
First, a practical application of grace in every day life. When I was much younger than I am now, the banks used a term “3 days grace”. I don’t know if it is still used in these days of accelerated greed or not. What happened was when a loan was taken from a bank the payment, interest and payment date was set. If for some unforeseen reason the borrower could not make the payment on the agreed date the bank would wait 3 days before it would take any action against the loan account. There would be no charges to the principle or the interest if the payment was made within 3 business days after the set date. Three days of grace.
Great. Where is YOUR scripture. I provided MANY to defend my position.
We are now blessed to be living in what some call the age of grace. For most of us it is a lifetime of grace, not just 3 days. Any time you “settle your account” before you die there is no charges standing against you if you continue living a Christian life, by the grace of God.

In simple terms, God’s Grace is as follows: God has an attitude of grace towards mankind and any one who has faith in his son Jesus, God, by his grace, saves them. (See Ephesians 2:8 and 9)
You still aren't telling me what grace is, identifying what the gift is. You are just saying grace is grace.
Your off definition of GRACE has nothing to do with the English term. You are trying to talk grapes but you are talking lemons. There is nothing in your post that has anything to do with grace; except you did spell it correctly.
This is a mere assertion that does nothing to even attempt to address the plethora of verses used to sustain my premise. At this point, you are literally asserting scripture is not true because you say so. There is nothing "off" about my definition of grace because my definition of grace is the same as yours. What you must contend with is the Biblical identification of the gift that grace is. You likely don't even understand me well enough to try, judging by your last post.
 

Saxon

Active member
I have no disagreements up to this point. The plan of salvation was wholly from God, given without merit to man who neither earned it nor deserved it, and had no part in its development.
This statement, as it is stated, is totally true. But based on other beliefs that you have stated you are in contradiction to this statement.
But this doesn't identify it. It's nothing more than you saying grace is grace, which tells me nothing.
What I have stated that grace is, is what grace is. Grace is not a tangible item. You cannot get a jar of grace. Grace is a description of an attribute that belongs to God, the GRACE of God.

This reminds me of when I was in my teens. In Regina Saskatchewan, there was a by-law that kept stores closed on Mondays to compensate for Saturday shopping so everyone had a 2 day weekend off. There were some that wanted Monday to be opened as well. There was a vote taken and the stores remained closed. the next year the same thing. The third year, the vote opened the stores on Monday. The fourth year, there was no vote. The people that wanted the stores opened on Monday kept pushing until they got what they wanted. You are now pushing for what you want. I gave you my take on grace by definition, what the term means, and I also gave a practical demonstration how grace works. Now you want me to tell you again. Why don't you tell me what you expect for an answer? As many times as you press me for the answer to the same question, you will get the same answer, I'm not changing my vote.
Great. Where is YOUR scripture. I provided MANY to defend my position.
Where is your scripture to support definition of grace? Your scripture states what grace does, but not what grace is.
You still aren't telling me what grace is, identifying what the gift is. You are just saying grace is grace.
Grace is just that, grace.
This is a mere assertion that does nothing to even attempt to address the plethora of verses used to sustain my premise. At this point, you are literally asserting scripture is not true because you say so. There is nothing "off" about my definition of grace because my definition of grace is the same as yours. What you must contend with is the Biblical identification of the gift that grace is. You likely don't even understand me well enough to try, judging by your last post.
Maybe I don't understand what you are saying, so we don't run a long list of posts, how about you tell me what you are looking for from me? What is it that you believe?
 

Kade Rystalmane

Well-known member
This statement, as it is stated, is totally true. But based on other beliefs that you have stated you are in contradiction to this statement.
No, I am not, because I can identify what Grace is and distinguish it from what God requires that we do to receive it (Matt. 7:21).
What I have stated that grace is, is what grace is. Grace is not a tangible item. You cannot get a jar of grace. Grace is a description of an attribute that belongs to God, the GRACE of God.
So you cannot identify grace. Duly noted. Without that, you can't possibly hope to build any doctrines based on the concept of grace. You don't even know what it is.
This reminds me of when I was in my teens. In Regina Saskatchewan, there was a by-law that kept stores closed on Mondays to compensate for Saturday shopping so everyone had a 2 day weekend off. There were some that wanted Monday to be opened as well. There was a vote taken and the stores remained closed. the next year the same thing. The third year, the vote opened the stores on Monday. The fourth year, there was no vote. The people that wanted the stores opened on Monday kept pushing until they got what they wanted. You are now pushing for what you want.
This is a misrepresentation of me and as such is false. I only want one thing, to be in a relationship with my Creator so that when time ends, I spend eternity with Him instead of separated from Him. I have no other desire. For you to assert otherwise is disingenuous.
I gave you my take on grace by definition, what the term means, and I also gave a practical demonstration how grace works. Now you want me to tell you again.
Neither the definition you gave or the anecdote identified what grace is. You just got finished writing above that you can't. This is what I hypothesized all along. Most people can't. You are one of the few who has actually admitted it. Yet you still try to build your entire doctrinal framework around something you don't even understand.
Why don't you tell me what you expect for an answer? As many times as you press me for the answer to the same question, you will get the same answer, I'm not changing my vote.
Your vote? You don't vote one what grace is. God told us. I expect you to give an explicit identification of what God's unearned gift to mankind is from scripture. I showed you from scripture what God identifies grace as. It's His Son including Jesus' teachings that we call the New Testament. I used a host of scriptures to show that. Your vote is that you don't have a clue what it is.
Where is your scripture to support definition of grace? Your scripture states what grace does, but not what grace is.
I'm not trying to define grace. Paul does that in Eph. 2:8. Grace is the gift of God. By showing you what grace does and showing you that it does all the same things as the Word, I have shown you from scripture what it is. When two things have the same properties they are the same thing.
Grace is just that, grace.
This is called a tautology and has no meaning in this conversation.
Maybe I don't understand what you are saying, so we don't run a long list of posts, how about you tell me what you are looking for from me? What is it that you believe?
See the OP. Understand the OP.
 

Saxon

Active member
No, I am not, because I can identify what Grace is and distinguish it from what God requires that we do to receive it (Matt. 7:21).
Please do. That is what I requested.
So you cannot identify grace. Duly noted. Without that, you can't possibly hope to build any doctrines based on the concept of grace. You don't even know what it is.
I did identify "grace" but you don't accept it.
This is a misrepresentation of me and as such is false. I only want one thing, to be in a relationship with my Creator so that when time ends, I spend eternity with Him instead of separated from Him. I have no other desire. For you to assert otherwise is disingenuous.
I am not misrepresenting you, I asked what you conceive grace to be, what is it that you think it to be. You said what grace does and nothing of what grace is.
Neither the definition you gave or the anecdote identified what grace is. You just got finished writing above that you can't. This is what I hypothesized all along. Most people can't. You are one of the few who has actually admitted it. Yet you still try to build your entire doctrinal framework around something you don't even understand.
I didn't say I can't, I told you what grace is but you reject my answer and then you claimed that you said what grace is, but you, in reality, stated what grace does.
Your vote? You don't vote one what grace is. God told us. I expect you to give an explicit identification of what God's unearned gift to mankind is from scripture. I showed you from scripture what God identifies grace as. It's His Son including Jesus' teachings that we call the New Testament. I used a host of scriptures to show that. Your vote is that you don't have a clue what it is.
You never told me what grace is, only what grace does. I voted for what grace is and you voted for what grace does. I believe that you were looking for what grace is. You can't answer your own question or you don't understand what you are asking.
I'm not trying to define grace. Paul does that in Eph. 2:8. Grace is the gift of God. By showing you what grace does and showing you that it does all the same things as the Word, I have shown you from scripture what it is. When two things have the same properties they are the same thing.
Your thread title is "What is Grace" and you are not trying to define grace?? Yes grace is the gift of God, but what is grace, the gift?
This is called a tautology and has no meaning in this conversation.
Until you can tell me what grace is, that is all you have.
See the OP. Understand the OP.
There is no understanding what you are saying.
 

Kade Rystalmane

Well-known member
Please do. That is what I requested.
From my OP:

"Grace, that unearned gift from God that saves us is The Plan of Salvation, which includes: Christ's perfect life, death, burial, and resurrection. (Heb. 2:9) The New Testament/gospel/New Covenant/Law of Liberty/etc.a. Compare Eph. 2:8 with 1 Peter 1:5 then Romans 1:6.b."​
I did identify "grace" but you don't accept it.
Your words:

"What I have stated that grace is, is what grace is."​

This is not identifying what grace is. This is a tautology.

I am not misrepresenting you, I asked what you conceive grace to be, what is it that you think it to be. You said what grace does and nothing of what grace is.
"Grace, that unearned gift from God that saves us is The Plan of Salvation, which includes: Christ's perfect life, death, burial, and resurrection. (Heb. 2:9) The New Testament/gospel/New Covenant/Law of Liberty/etc.a. Compare Eph. 2:8 with 1 Peter 1:5 then Romans 1:6.b."
I didn't say I can't, I told you what grace is but you reject my answer and then you claimed that you said what grace is, but you, in reality, stated what grace does.
You said:

"Grace is not a tangible item."​

and then kept repeating grace is grace. If you can identify what God's grace actually is, please do so. Grace is grace is not an identification of grace. Grace is not tangible is not an identification of grace. Grace is an attribute of God is not an identification of grace as there are a lot of attributes of God.
You never told me what grace is, only what grace does.
"Grace, that unearned gift from God that saves us is The Plan of Salvation, which includes: Christ's perfect life, death, burial, and resurrection. (Heb. 2:9) The New Testament/gospel/New Covenant/Law of Liberty/etc.a. Compare Eph. 2:8 with 1 Peter 1:5 then Romans 1:6.b."
I voted for what grace is and you voted for what grace does. I believe that you were looking for what grace is. You can't answer your own question or you don't understand what you are asking.
"Grace, that unearned gift from God that saves us is The Plan of Salvation, which includes: Christ's perfect life, death, burial, and resurrection. (Heb. 2:9) The New Testament/gospel/New Covenant/Law of Liberty/etc.a. Compare Eph. 2:8 with 1 Peter 1:5 then Romans 1:6.b."
Your thread title is "What is Grace" and you are not trying to define grace?? Yes grace is the gift of God, but what is grace, the gift?
I am not trying to define the term grace. We both know that. I am identifying the specific gift that God gave us that saves us. Here it is again:

"Grace, that unearned gift from God that saves us is The Plan of Salvation, which includes: Christ's perfect life, death, burial, and resurrection. (Heb. 2:9) The New Testament/gospel/New Covenant/Law of Liberty/etc.a. Compare Eph. 2:8 with 1 Peter 1:5 then Romans 1:6.b."
Until you can tell me what grace is, that is all you have.
"Grace, that unearned gift from God that saves us is The Plan of Salvation, which includes: Christ's perfect life, death, burial, and resurrection. (Heb. 2:9) The New Testament/gospel/New Covenant/Law of Liberty/etc.a. Compare Eph. 2:8 with 1 Peter 1:5 then Romans 1:6.b."
There is no understanding what you are saying.
For you, that may be true. I'll give it to you one more time in hopes that it sticks:

"Grace, that unearned gift from God that saves us is The Plan of Salvation, which includes: Christ's perfect life, death, burial, and resurrection. (Heb. 2:9) The New Testament/gospel/New Covenant/Law of Liberty/etc.a. Compare Eph. 2:8 with 1 Peter 1:5 then Romans 1:6.b."
 

Saxon

Active member
From my OP:
"Grace, that unearned gift from God that saves us is The Plan of Salvation, which includes: Christ's perfect life, death, burial, and resurrection. (Heb. 2:9) The New Testament/gospel/New Covenant/Law of Liberty/etc.a. Compare Eph. 2:8 with 1 Peter 1:5 then Romans 1:6.b."​

Your words:

"What I have stated that grace is, is what grace is."​

This is not identifying what grace is. This is a tautology.


"Grace, that unearned gift from God that saves us is The Plan of Salvation, which includes: Christ's perfect life, death, burial, and resurrection. (Heb. 2:9) The New Testament/gospel/New Covenant/Law of Liberty/etc.a. Compare Eph. 2:8 with 1 Peter 1:5 then Romans 1:6.b."

You said:
"Grace is not a tangible item."​

and then kept repeating grace is grace. If you can identify what God's grace actually is, please do so. Grace is grace is not an identification of grace. Grace is not tangible is not an identification of grace. Grace is an attribute of God is not an identification of grace as there are a lot of attributes of God.

"Grace, that unearned gift from God that saves us is The Plan of Salvation, which includes: Christ's perfect life, death, burial, and resurrection. (Heb. 2:9) The New Testament/gospel/New Covenant/Law of Liberty/etc.a. Compare Eph. 2:8 with 1 Peter 1:5 then Romans 1:6.b."

"Grace, that unearned gift from God that saves us is The Plan of Salvation, which includes: Christ's perfect life, death, burial, and resurrection. (Heb. 2:9) The New Testament/gospel/New Covenant/Law of Liberty/etc.a. Compare Eph. 2:8 with 1 Peter 1:5 then Romans 1:6.b."

I am not trying to define the term grace. We both know that. I am identifying the specific gift that God gave us that saves us. Here it is again:

"Grace, that unearned gift from God that saves us is The Plan of Salvation, which includes: Christ's perfect life, death, burial, and resurrection. (Heb. 2:9) The New Testament/gospel/New Covenant/Law of Liberty/etc.a. Compare Eph. 2:8 with 1 Peter 1:5 then Romans 1:6.b."

"Grace, that unearned gift from God that saves us is The Plan of Salvation, which includes: Christ's perfect life, death, burial, and resurrection. (Heb. 2:9) The New Testament/gospel/New Covenant/Law of Liberty/etc.a. Compare Eph. 2:8 with 1 Peter 1:5 then Romans 1:6.b."

For you, that may be true. I'll give it to you one more time in hopes that it sticks:

"Grace, that unearned gift from God that saves us is The Plan of Salvation, which includes: Christ's perfect life, death, burial, and resurrection. (Heb. 2:9) The New Testament/gospel/New Covenant/Law of Liberty/etc.a. Compare Eph. 2:8 with 1 Peter 1:5 then Romans 1:6.b."
What is grace?

Definition of grace (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)
1a: unmerited divine assistance given to humans for their regeneration or sanctification
b: a virtue coming from God
c: a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine assistance
2a: approval, favor
stayed in his good graces
b archaic : mercy, pardon
c: a special favor : privilege

What does “unmerited” mean?
Definition of unmerited (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)
: not adequately earned or deserved : not merited

To remain faithful and true to the written word of God, “grace” is a virtue coming from God that is totally of his own volition and without any merit from the receiver of the said grace from God.

This is what I stated at the very beginning???

1. Grace is not indefinable or some nebulous SOMETHING. If Grace is what saves us from sin (Eph. 2:5) and we can know what sets us free from sin because Jesus said that we will know the truth and the truth will set us free from sin (John 8:32), then we can know what Grace is. Below is an analogous equation based on Ephesians 2:8. For by grace are you saved through faith.
(From your OP)

Jesus is the one that did everything that got anyone saved. The truth has set you free, not anything that you did or were a participant in, salvation comes only because of Jesus. For by grace are you saved through faith in Christ.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
 

Kade Rystalmane

Well-known member
What is grace?

Definition of grace (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)
1a: unmerited divine assistance given to humans for their regeneration or sanctification
b: a virtue coming from God
c: a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine assistance
2a: approval, favor
stayed in his good graces
b archaic : mercy, pardon
c: a special favor : privilege

What does “unmerited” mean?
Definition of unmerited (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)
: not adequately earned or deserved : not merited

To remain faithful and true to the written word of God, “grace” is a virtue coming from God that is totally of his own volition and without any merit from the receiver of the said grace from God.

This is what I stated at the very beginning???

1. Grace is not indefinable or some nebulous SOMETHING. If Grace is what saves us from sin (Eph. 2:5) and we can know what sets us free from sin because Jesus said that we will know the truth and the truth will set us free from sin (John 8:32), then we can know what Grace is. Below is an analogous equation based on Ephesians 2:8. For by grace are you saved through faith.
(From your OP)
We agree to this point.
Jesus is the one that did everything that got anyone saved. The truth has set you free, not anything that you did or were a participant in, salvation comes only because of Jesus. For by grace are you saved through faith in Christ.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Was grace given to all men or only a select few?
 

Saxon

Active member
We agree to this point.

Was grace given to all men or only a select few?
Grace is available to all that believe in Jesus Christ.
To get right to the point we need to ask, “What must I do to be saved”? Fortunately Acts 16:30 asks that very question. Equally fortunate, Acts 16:31 answers that question. Remember that we are committed to the fact that the Bible is totally true and it is without contradiction.

Acts 16:30 and brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 And they said, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

The simple answer is “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved”. There is nothing else to it. The problem is that man has tinkered with the scriptures by adding conditions to the plain and simple answer. Also, man has ignored the meaning of other pertinent terms that also tell us what salvation is.

Salvation is by grace. Salvation is through faith. Salvation is the gift of God. (See Ephesians 2:8 and 9)

Definition of grace (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)
1a: unmerited divine assistance given to humans for their regeneration or sanctification
b: a virtue coming from God
c: a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine assistance
2a: approval, favor
stayed in his good graces
b archaic : mercy, pardon
c: a special favor : privilege

What does “unmerited” mean?
Definition of unmerited (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)
: not adequately earned or deserved: not merited

To remain faithful and true to the written word of God, it would true to say that “grace” is a virtue coming from God that is totally of his own volition and without any merit from the receiver of the said grace from God.

Salvation is not of yourselves. Salvation is not of works. (See Ephesians 2:8 and 9)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 not of works, lest any man should boast.

Seeing that salvation is by grace that is unmerited, salvation has no source in ourselves. This also eliminates works, because if we were to work for it then it would become wages or a payment of a debt owed by God. If it is works, it is no longer grace. If it is of grace it cannot be works.

How is grace acquired (the means of grace)?

The scriptures affirm that grace is a gift, there is no possible way that a human has a means of grace at their personal disposal. No act of any human attracts grace. Grace is something that is given to mankind.

The birth, life, death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is the only means of grace that exists. God, before the foundation of the world, had decided to save the human race because of his love. This was before any human was created or born on the earth. God’s plan was to make a way to save sinful man and still maintain his (God’s) holy righteousness, without simply overlooking or ignoring sin. God’s creation could not and still cannot redeem themselves.

From Jesus birth to his resurrection, Jesus did all the work that was needed to secure the salvation of every person that has come or is to come into the world. (See Hebrews 1:3) Jesus by himself purged our sins leaving nothing that we can possibly do to that would be a “means of grace”.

Hebrews 1:3 who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

It is evident from Ephesians 2:8 and 9 that grace is a gift that saves us that have faith in Jesus, who is the means of grace. The fact that we who are the saved have faith in Christ does not obligate God to save us. If he were to be obligated to save us then it would not be by grace, but because of a debt. God is no mans debtor.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2:10 needs to be carefully considered as it tells us that as freely saved, by the grace of God Christians, that we are to engage in good works that God has ordained that we should walk in them. The salvation of the human race is a totally free gift to mankind. After we have been saved, we have become obligated to live as Christ’s blood bought redeemed Christians. We are to be the people that He created us to be. After salvation is the time for good works that we should do. It is after salvation that we are required to do good works.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 10:9 that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Salvation is to mankind a free gift that was paid for by Jesus Christ. He paid a debt he did not owe and I owed a debt that I could not pay.
 

Kade Rystalmane

Well-known member
Grace is available to all that believe in Jesus Christ.
So not to all men?
To get right to the point we need to ask, “What must I do to be saved”? Fortunately Acts 16:30 asks that very question. Equally fortunate, Acts 16:31 answers that question. Remember that we are committed to the fact that the Bible is totally true and it is without contradiction.

Acts 16:30 and brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 And they said, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

The simple answer is “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved”. There is nothing else to it. The problem is that man has tinkered with the scriptures by adding conditions to the plain and simple answer. Also, man has ignored the meaning of other pertinent terms that also tell us what salvation is.
Peter answered that question in Acts 2:38, too. Did Peter contradict Paul or is water immersion a part of that "believe" Paul was talking about. From Acts 16:33 that Paul agrees with Peter, that water immersion is part of what it means to believe.
Salvation is by grace. Salvation is through faith. Salvation is the gift of God. (See Ephesians 2:8 and 9)
If your argument that salvation is by grace alone without anything on man's part, then man doesn't have to believe either. Believe is something on man's part. It requires man to participate in his own salvation by actively receiving the gift. If man truly has no part in being saved and its all grace, then you are adding believing on the part of man to God's finished work. Additionally, since Grace has been given to all men (Titus 2:11) and since man can't do anything to take part in being saved, that would mean all men are saved.

You can't have it both ways. Either man takes no part in his own salvation or man does have a required part to play in which case water immersion is both logically relevant and an essential part. Which is it? All grace or God's grace given only to active receivers?
To remain faithful and true to the written word of God, it would true to say that “grace” is a virtue coming from God that is totally of his own volition and without any merit from the receiver of the said grace from God.

Salvation is not of yourselves. Salvation is not of works. (See Ephesians 2:8 and 9)
What kind of works is Paul talking about here? Works of the law of Moses? Works of merit/self-righteousness? Works of the devil? Or works of obedient faith?
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 not of works, lest any man should boast.

Seeing that salvation is by grace that is unmerited, salvation has no source in ourselves. This also eliminates works, because if we were to work for it then it would become wages or a payment of a debt owed by God. If it is works, it is no longer grace. If it is of grace it cannot be works.
Then you have to eliminate believing, too, since that's something man does to participate in his own salvation.
How is grace acquired (the means of grace)?

The scriptures affirm that grace is a gift, there is no possible way that a human has a means of grace at their personal disposal. No act of any human attracts grace. Grace is something that is given to mankind.
So man doesn't even have to believe, can't believe to receive grace because that would be man doing something.
The birth, life, death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is the only means of grace that exists. God, before the foundation of the world, had decided to save the human race because of his love. This was before any human was created or born on the earth. God’s plan was to make a way to save sinful man and still maintain his (God’s) holy righteousness, without simply overlooking or ignoring sin. God’s creation could not and still cannot redeem themselves.

From Jesus birth to his resurrection, Jesus did all the work that was needed to secure the salvation of every person that has come or is to come into the world. (See Hebrews 1:3) Jesus by himself purged our sins leaving nothing that we can possibly do to that would be a “means of grace”.

Hebrews 1:3 who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

It is evident from Ephesians 2:8 and 9 that grace is a gift that saves us that have faith in Jesus, who is the means of grace. The fact that we who are the saved have faith in Christ does not obligate God to save us. If he were to be obligated to save us then it would not be by grace, but because of a debt. God is no mans debtor.
Now apply that same thinking to water immersion. Wherever you see faith just substitute "obedient faith that includes water immersion" and you will finally understand our position.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2:10 needs to be carefully considered as it tells us that as freely saved, by the grace of God Christians, that we are to engage in good works that God has ordained that we should walk in them. The salvation of the human race is a totally free gift to mankind. After we have been saved, we have become obligated to live as Christ’s blood bought redeemed Christians. We are to be the people that He created us to be. After salvation is the time for good works that we should do. It is after salvation that we are required to do good works.
So is it grace salvation or is grace what causes salvation because you are going back and forth on that?
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 10:9 that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Salvation is to mankind a free gift that was paid for by Jesus Christ. He paid a debt he did not owe and I owed a debt that I could not pay.
If Salvation itself is the free gift and the free gift was given to all mankind (your words) then all men are saved.
 

Saxon

Active member
So not to all men?
Only to those that believe.

Acts 16:30 and brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 And they said, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Peter answered that question in Acts 2:38, too. Did Peter contradict Paul or is water immersion a part of that "believe" Paul was talking about. From Acts 16:33 that Paul agrees with Peter, that water immersion is part of what it means to believe.
He did. He and Paul are in total agreement.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Repent. Turn from your sins and turn to God. This indicates a belief in God so salvation has already occurred with the Holy Spirit indwelling. The remission of sins has already occurred. (for the remission of sins (because of the remission of sins)) The gift of the Holy Spirit is not the indwelling, but the coming upon you, the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

The fact that we are saved by grace through faith eliminates a person to be saved by participating in any ritual or rite and expecting to be saved by that action. Grace: God's unmerited favour. Unmerited is not deserved or earned or worked for. Nothing that you do or participate in will cause God to save anyone.

Acts 1:4 and, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


If your argument that salvation is by grace alone without anything on man's part, then man doesn't have to believe either. Believe is something on man's part. It requires man to participate in his own salvation by actively receiving the gift. If man truly has no part in being saved and its all grace, then you are adding believing on the part of man to God's finished work. Additionally, since Grace has been given to all men (Titus 2:11) and since man can't do anything to take part in being saved, that would mean all men are saved.
You have to believe to be saved, but believing does not save you (For by grace are you saved.)
You can't have it both ways. Either man takes no part in his own salvation or man does have a required part to play in which case water immersion is both logically relevant and an essential part. Which is it? All grace or God's grace given only to active receivers?
All grace; because believing does not save you. (For by grace are you saved.)
What kind of works is Paul talking about here? Works of the law of Moses? Works of merit/self-righteousness? Works of the devil? Or works of obedient faith?
There is no work of any kind that will save you - Nothing but grace. NOT of works.
Then you have to eliminate believing, too, since that's something man does to participate in his own salvation.
Believing doesn't save you . Grace saves you.
So man doesn't even have to believe, can't believe to receive grace because that would be man doing something.
Now you are being silly (stupid may be a bit strong).
Acts 16:30 and brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 And they said, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Now apply that same thinking to water immersion. Wherever you see faith just substitute "obedient faith that includes water immersion" and you will finally understand our position.
That is changing scripture to suit your beliefs. You are fooling yourself. By the way there is no such thing as obedient faith or saving faith, it is only faith. There is no labelling of faith in scripture. That is unchristian superstition.
So is it grace salvation or is grace what causes salvation because you are going back and forth on that?
I just checked the Bible and it still says "for by grace are you saved through faith. Still no mention of baptism.
If Salvation itself is the free gift and the free gift was given to all mankind (your words) then all men are saved.
Not my words but yours, misrepresenting what I said. By grace are you saved through faith. If you don't have faith you don't get saved. Faith won't save you. Fore by grace are you saved THROUGH faith in Christ.
 

Kade Rystalmane

Well-known member
One long running contradiction.

You: What must I do to be saved? Just believe.

Also you: Belief doesn't save you. There is nothing you can do to be saved. Its all grace.

And you can't even see this is a contradiction.
 

Saxon

Active member
One long running contradiction.

You: What must I do to be saved? Just believe.

Also you: Belief doesn't save you. There is nothing you can do to be saved. Its all grace.

And you can't even see this is a contradiction.
It is your confused mind that sees it as a contradiction. God saves you by his grace, then you are saved by the grace of God. Where does it say that you are saved by grace plus anything else? It doesn't. Believing doesn't save you, but you must believe before God will save you and that is by grace alone.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

You can't come to God if you don't believe that he is. Once you believe that he is; then you are saveable. Believing doesn't save you, it gets you to the point that you become saveable. Then, and only then, God by his grace saves you.

I am convinced that you have no real idea of what grace means or how it operates . If you believe that it is grace plus something else, you do not know what you are talking about.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
Ephesians 2:5 - "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; )"

Whenever I am invited into a new group of people in the context of Bible, whether online or in person, I always begin with a single question. What is Grace? Almost without fail the response is: "Grace is unmerited favor." (or sometimes "Grace is an unearned gift from God.")

While this is the definition of the word, this is not the question I am asking. What is the unearned gift that God gave that saves? I'm asking about its identity. If you stop and think about it for a moment, it's really very simple. The problem is, that so many people have made it complicated that misunderstanding what God's Grace is has become the foundation for most of the error taught concerning salvation.

I. Some basic statistics.

  • "grace" is found in the KJV:- 171 times in 160 verses.
  • 40 times in 38 verses in the Old Testament.
  • 131 times in 122 verses in the New Testament.
  • Hebrew -> khane and tekh-in-naw'
  • Greek - > khares (or charis)

II. What Grace Is NOT:

1. Grace is not indefinable or some nebulous SOMETHING. If Grace is what saves us from sin (Eph. 2:5) and we can know what sets us free from sin because Jesus said that we will know the truth and the truth will set us free from sin (John 8:32), then we can know what Grace is. Below is an analogous equation based on Ephesians 2:8. For by grace are you saved through faith. If Grace equals flour and faith equals water then saved equals bread.
  • Grace + Faith = Saved (Eph. 2:8)
  • Flour + Water = Bread
Below we use mathematical substitution to show what would happen if Grace were the things that it is sometimes said to be.

2. Grace is not salvation: Eph. 2:8 (Titus 2:11) Substituting Salvation for Grace in the equation we get:
  • Salvation + Faith = Saved
  • Bread + Water = Soggy Bread (watered down salvation?)
3. Grace is not individual faith: Eph. 2:8 Substituting individual faith for Grace in the equation we get:
  • Faith + Faith = Saved
  • Water + Water = Water
4. Grace alone can't save us
  • Grace != Saved
  • Flour != Bread
Grace alone means a lack of faith. But Hebrews 11:6 says that without faith we can not please God.

5. Grace is not the Old Law Grace is a contrast to the Old Testament in many of Paul's letters as well as the letter of Hebrews. Rom. 6:14; John 1:17; Gal. 2:21; 5:4
  • Old Testament + Faith = Saved
  • Not Flour + Water = Soggy something
6. Note that in Ephesians 2:8 that Grace is the gift of God in this passage. "It" is a pronoun referring back to a noun, specifically the subject of the previous phrase which is the word "Grace". The word "saved" is a verb so the gift of God is not "saved" (which doesn't make sense gramatically) but "saved" is a result of God's gift (grace) and man's (obedient) faith. The noun form of the word "saved", "salvation" is not in Ephesians 2:8.

I would even go so far, though I'm still studying this thoroughly, as to state that salvation itself is not a gift at all, but a result. I can't find a verse where salvation is ever spoken of as a gift. Eternal life is a gift, but eternal life is not the same concept as salvation although they are closely related. If someone can show me a passage where salvation IS spoken of as a gift, I would greatly appreciate it!

III. Properties of Grace:

A. A look at the properties of Grace according to Scripture.
  1. Grace saves us: (Eph. 2:8), justifies us: (Romans 3:24; Titus 3:7)
  2. Grace can be continued in: (Acts 13:43)
  3. Grace can be given (1 Cor. 1:4)
  4. Grace can be received (2 Cor. 6:1)
  5. Grace can be followed like a plan (1 Cor. 3:10)
  6. Grace can be fallen from: (Gal. 5:4)
  7. Grace can make us free from sin: (Eph 2:5)
  8. Grace can be given for the purpose of preaching: (Eph. 3:8)
  9. Grace can be ministered unto hearers: (Eph. 4:29)
  10. Grace teaches us: (Titus 2:11-12)
  11. Grace can be sung: (Col. 3:16)
  12. Grace can be in our hearts: (Col. 3:16)
  13. Grace is the opponent of sin: (Romans 5:21)
  14. Grace is in Christ: (1 Tim. 1:14)
  15. Grace calls us: (2 Tim. 1:9)
  16. Grace was prophecied: (1 Peter 1:10)
  17. Grace is brought by revelation: (1 Peter 1:13)
  18. Grace calls men to Christ: (Gal. 1:15)
  19. Grace is in contrast with the Law of Moses: (Rom. 6:14; John 1:17; Gal. 2:21; 5:4)
B. Another look at the same properties but called something other than Grace. Two things equal to the same thing are equal to each other. Two things with identical properties are the same two things. Properties of this other thing include:
  1. It saves us, justifies us: James 1:21; Gal. 2:16
  2. Can be continued in: John 8:31-32
  3. Can be given: John 17:14
  4. Can be received: James 1:21
  5. Can be followed like a plan: Romans 6:17
  6. Can be fallen from: 1 John 3:4
  7. Can make us free from sin: John 8:32; John 17:17
  8. Can be given for the purpose of preaching: 2 Timothy 4:2
  9. Can be ministered unto hearers: Romans 10:17
  10. Teaches us (doctrine): 2 Tim. 3:16-17; Col. 3:16
  11. Can be sung: 1 Cor. 14:15, Col. 3:16 (understand, teach)
  12. Can be in our hearts: Matt. 13:19; Heb. 8:10
  13. The opponent of sin: 1 John 3:4
  14. Is in Christ: Acts 24:24 (THE faith)
  15. Calls us: 2 Thess. 2:14
  16. Was prophecied: Jer. 31:33
  17. Is brought by revelation: Romans 1:16-17; Gal. 3:23
  18. Calls men to Christ 2 Thess. 2:14
  19. Is in contrast with the Law of Moses: (John 1:17; Heb. 8:8, 13; 12:24)

V. What do we do with this?

  • We must grow in grace: (2 Pet. 3:18)
  • We must be strong in grace: (2 Tim. 2:1)
  • Serve according to grace: (Heb. 12:28)
  • Minister that grace to others: (1 Peter 4:10-11)


It makes sense to me when the definition of "grace" is seen according to Paul's Hebrew writing style of a Semitic parallelism. Acts 4:33 is such a parallelism on grace and we see that grace is a parallel to power over sin, and not a cover-up of sin as unmerited favor defines.

And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

Thus grace is power. That is confirmed in 2 Peter 1:2-4

Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
 

Kade Rystalmane

Well-known member
It is your confused mind that sees it as a contradiction. God saves you by his grace, then you are saved by the grace of God. Where does it say that you are saved by grace plus anything else? It doesn't. Believing doesn't save you, but you must believe before God will save you and that is by grace alone.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

You can't come to God if you don't believe that he is. Once you believe that he is; then you are saveable. Believing doesn't save you, it gets you to the point that you become saveable. Then, and only then, God by his grace saves you.

I am convinced that you have no real idea of what grace means or how it operates . If you believe that it is grace plus something else, you do not know what you are talking about.
As you wish.
 

Kade Rystalmane

Well-known member
It makes sense to me when the definition of "grace" is seen according to Paul's Hebrew writing style of a Semitic parallelism. Acts 4:33 is such a parallelism on grace and we see that grace is a parallel to power over sin, and not a cover-up of sin as unmerited favor defines.

And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

Thus grace is power. That is confirmed in 2 Peter 1:2-4

Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Excellent thoughts. I agree! I would add Romans 1:16 to this talk of grace as power.
 
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