What is meant by being in Christ?

TomFL

Well-known member
What was meant when it was written that levi paid tithes while in the loins of Abraham? Heb 7 9 10

9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
Is that concept hard to grasp? Does that mean a pre-existing Levi?
Does not change the fact they were clearly noted as being separate from not in Christ

Eph. 2:11–12 —ESV
“uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands—
remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The point is that God recognized a union of levi and Abraham before levi had a actual existence. Levi is of Abraham seed and in a spiritual sense believers are Christ seed Isa 53 10

Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

That is the union. Christ seed were in Him.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
The point is that God recognized a union of levi and Abraham before levi had a actual existence. Levi is of Abraham seed and in a spiritual sense believers are Christ seed Isa 53 10

Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

That is the union. Christ seed were in Him.
The fact remains

The Ephesians were clearly noted as being separate from not in Christ

Eph. 2:11–12 —ESV
“uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands—
remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”

so why are you fighting scripture
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The fact remains

The Ephesians were clearly noted as being separate from not in Christ

Eph. 2:11–12 —ESV
“uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands—
remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”

so why are you fighting scripture
The Ephesians Paul wrote to were Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1 4. They were in Christ then.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
The Ephesians Paul wrote to were Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1 4. They were in Christ then.
Sorry they were not in Christ

Eph. 2:11–12 —ESV
“uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands—
remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry they were not in Christ

Eph. 2:11–12 —ESV
“uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands—
remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”
So being in Christ means having been in union with Him. And for the believe that union in Christ was before the foundation of the world.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
So being in Christ means having been in union with Him. And for the believe that union in Christ was before the foundation of the world.
Do you not know what the word separate means ?

Eph. 2:11–12 —ESV
“uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands—
remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Do you not know what the word separate means ?

Eph. 2:11–12 —ESV
“uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands—
remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”
Those who were separated from Christ e Eph 2 12 were also Chosen in union with Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1 4 you should not dismiss truth like that.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Those who were separated from Christ e Eph 2 12 were also Chosen in union with Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1 4 you should not dismiss truth like that.
Chosen for what ?

Not chosen to be in Christ

Not arbitrarily selected for salvation

There is no mention of unconditional election in the passage
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Chosen for what ?

Not chosen to be in Christ

Not arbitrarily selected for salvation

There is no mention of unconditional election in the passage
Those chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world were Chosen in Christ for Salvation. Duh what else? Jesus Christ is the Saviour from sin. And so they were unconditionally chosen.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Those chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world were Chosen in Christ for Salvation. Duh what else? Jesus Christ is the Saviour from sin. And so they were unconditionally chosen.
Sorry the verse does not say that

Eph. 1:4 —ESV
“even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love”

It does state the faithful in Christ(the us in the passage) were chosen to be holy and blameless

The faithful are those we call saved

The saved are chosen to be holy and blameless before God

Nothing at all about unconditional election in the passage
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry the verse does not say that

Eph. 1:4 —ESV
“even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love”

It does state the faithful in Christ(the us in the passage) were chosen to be holy and blameless

The faithful are those we call saved

The saved are chosen to be holy and blameless before God

Nothing at all about unconditional election in the passage
Those who Paul was writing to in Ephesians, they were unconditionally chosen in Christ[in Him] before the foundation, before they existed on the earth. Thats why its unconditional.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Those who Paul was writing to in Ephesians, they were unconditionally chosen in Christ[in Him] before the foundation, before they existed on the earth. Thats why its unconditional.
The word unconditional does not appear in the text

and it is the faithful in Christ who are chosen to be holy and blameless

thus not unconditional

Eph. 1:4 —ESV
“even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love”

It does state the faithful in Christ(the us in the passage) were chosen to be holy and blameless

The faithful are those we call saved

The saved are chosen to be holy and blameless before God

Nothing at all about unconditional election in the passage
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The word unconditional does not appear in the text

and it is the faithful in Christ who are chosen to be holy and blameless

thus not unconditional

Eph. 1:4 —ESV
“even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love”

It does state the faithful in Christ(the us in the passage) were chosen to be holy and blameless

The faithful are those we call saved

The saved are chosen to be holy and blameless before God

Nothing at all about unconditional election in the passage
Doesn't have to appear, they were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. The only condition was Gods Sovereign choice.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Doesn't have to appear, they were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. The only condition was Gods Sovereign choice.
Sorry individuals were not chosen

and unconditional election is not mentioned

and it is the faithful in Christ who are chosen to be holy and blameless

thus not unconditional

Eph. 1:4 —ESV
“even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love”

It does state the faithful in Christ(the us in the passage) were chosen to be holy and blameless

The faithful are those we call saved

The saved are chosen to be holy and blameless before God

Nothing at all about unconditional election in the passage
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry individuals were not chosen

and unconditional election is not mentioned

and it is the faithful in Christ who are chosen to be holy and blameless

thus not unconditional

Eph. 1:4 —ESV
“even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love”

It does state the faithful in Christ(the us in the passage) were chosen to be holy and blameless

The faithful are those we call saved

The saved are chosen to be holy and blameless before God

Nothing at all about unconditional election in the passage
Sure individuals are chosen. Its not rabbits lol
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
No it was the church (the faithful in Christ) collectively which was chosen to be holy and blameless
They were individuals and they were chosen aforetime in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4 See when they were chosen, they were not in existence to do any conditions. Eph 1 4 teaches unconditional election of individuals who comprise the Church, Christs Body. But now its guaranteed that the Elect will be Faithful.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
They were individuals and they were chosen aforetime in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4 See when they were chosen, they were not in existence to do any conditions. Eph 1 4 teaches unconditional election of individuals who comprise the Church, Christs Body. But now its guaranteed that the Elect will be Faithful.
No they were separated from Christ

Eph. 2:12 —KJV
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
No they were separated from Christ

Eph. 2:12 —KJV
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:”
Yes they were separated from Christ, then they were also Chosen in Union with Him before the foundation. You need to put scripture above your reason.
 
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