What is Messianic Judaism

American Gothic

Well-known member
We have no king but Caesar." well as said

I totally agree, but not according to any men that he keep a promise, but to His Word.
Exactly
that's why God made unconditional Promises with Abraham and passed them to and made new ones as well, with Israel
regardless of what the Leadership or the Nation might do (often not good, granted)
those are on God and God alone to make happen, not Them
there is always a remnant of believers of Israel as well

Messiah on Earth is both a son of God (a direct creation of God)
and a son of Man (Adam) Luke 3:23-38
He wasn't prophesied to come from Mongolia
He's a Hebrew/Israelite/Jew
the promise of a Human Savior was made to Adam first
in an unconditional covenant that replaced a broken by Man conditional one Genesis 3
 
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Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
That's because apostate Jews try to evangelize Jews with sneaky tactics.
Have you ever considered that you might be wrong and Messiah has already come ? There was a very specific time for the Messiah to come, and that time is long past.
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Gen 49:10 - The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiverfrom between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering-of the people be.
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
Have you ever considered that you might be wrong and Messiah has already come ? There was a very specific time for the Messiah to come, and that time is long past.
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Gen 49:10 - The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiverfrom between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering-of the people be.
Well, the biggest problem that the earliest Christians had to solve was not could Jews accept Messiah gentiles, but could we Gentiles get saved by the Jewish messiah also!
 

rossh

Well-known member
Well, the biggest problem that the earliest Christians had to solve was not could Jews accept Messiah gentiles, but could we Gentiles get saved by the Jewish messiah also!
I do not have the relevant Passages handy but I am sure that He was/is rejected and killed by the Jews ( denounced and sent to the Governor to be killed ) trying to claim that it was NOT they, themselves. Well ? many did believe that He - Yeshua is the Messiah and then most did not because of His preaching about them doing the wrong things etc; Look up Isa 51:4 also Dan 12:7 this is about gentiles being mentioned for " salvation " below..
Well there could be many more I have just noted down those 2 form previous searches....
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
I do not have the relevant Passages handy but I am sure that He was/is rejected and killed by the Jews ( denounced and sent to the Governor to be killed ) trying to claim that it was NOT they, themselves. Well ? many did believe that He - Yeshua is the Messiah and then most did not because of His preaching about them doing the wrong things etc; Look up Isa 51:4 also Dan 12:7 this is about gentiles being mentioned for " salvation " below..
Well there could be many more I have just noted down those 2 form previous searches....
Just saying that supreme irony is that the Jews state that Jewish people today Jesus was not the jewish Messiah, and is for the gentiles, and yet all of the earliest save persons were in fact all Jewish!
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
Just saying that supreme irony is that the Jews state that Jewish people today Jesus was not the jewish Messiah, and is for the gentiles, and yet all of the earliest save persons were in fact all Jewish!
The Christian church started out as a Jewish sect, but it did not remain so. It BECAME a gentile religion. It began with Paul divorcing Christianity from Jewish law, quite different than what the Jews in Jerusalem were doing. Then the Jews furthered this by kicking the Christians out of the synagogues. It became pretty entrenched by the second century, when gentiles radically outnumbered Jews in the church, and apologists treated Judaism as a competitor, and chose to alter Church traditions solely for the reason of divorcing Christianity from Judaism (such as the worship on Sunday rather than Saturday).
 

rossh

Well-known member
Just saying that supreme irony is that the Jews state that Jewish people today Jesus was not the jewish Messiah, and is for the gentiles, and yet all of the earliest save persons were in fact all Jewish!
well yes I do see your point, I think that Greece may have been the first NON Jewish Nation to be converted ??? But, as the Deceiver is always at work doing evil as he does and very clever at it, things once again got out of hand and mixed up. The RCC said that if a person had a red hot iron put on their skin and they screamed they were guilty of something and if they did not scream they were also guilty of something else ? If those victims were rich then the RCC did not mind at all confiscating their wealth. Cheers...
 

rossh

Well-known member
The Christian church started out as a Jewish sect, but it did not remain so. It BECAME a gentile religion. It began with Paul divorcing Christianity from Jewish law, quite different than what the Jews in Jerusalem were doing. Then the Jews furthered this by kicking the Christians out of the synagogues. It became pretty entrenched by the second century, when gentiles radically outnumbered Jews in the church, and apologists treated Judaism as a competitor, and chose to alter Church traditions solely for the reason of divorcing Christianity from Judaism (such as the worship on Sunday rather than Saturday).
Amen, I do agree with you and then the Romans arrived, and God destroyed ( or allowed their destruction ) the Temple, His Holy Temple as all had been give to His Son and still is..
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
for a couple of thousand years now, mostly Gentiles have been saved
for a couple of thousand years before that, mostly Israelites were saved
for a while before that. probably mostly Shemites
for a while before that, probably mostly Sethites

the Faith goes where God takes it and where He says it will go

Have you ever considered that
Rabbinics would have to acknowledge Messiah has two appearances
Daniel was a prophet
etc
Yeshua wasn't an agent of Belial
 
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YeshuaFan

Well-known member
The Christian church started out as a Jewish sect, but it did not remain so. It BECAME a gentile religion. It began with Paul divorcing Christianity from Jewish law, quite different than what the Jews in Jerusalem were doing. Then the Jews furthered this by kicking the Christians out of the synagogues. It became pretty entrenched by the second century, when gentiles radically outnumbered Jews in the church, and apologists treated Judaism as a competitor, and chose to alter Church traditions solely for the reason of divorcing Christianity from Judaism (such as the worship on Sunday rather than Saturday).
It broke off from Judaism due to ther truth that in Jesus as the Promised messiah, there was a new Covenant established between God and both Gentiles and Jews now!
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Have you ever considered that you might be wrong and Messiah has already come ? There was a very specific time for the Messiah to come, and that time is long past.
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Gen 49:10 - The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiverfrom between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering-of the people be.
In what way do you think Jesus fulfilled this verse?

The Davidic dynasty ceased in 586 BCE when the first temple was destroyed. So, the sceptre departed then.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
It broke off from Judaism due to ther truth that in Jesus as the Promised messiah, there was a new Covenant established between God and both Gentiles and Jews now!
No, the covenant only applies to Israel and Judah, Jeremiah 31:31-34.
 

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
In what way do you think Jesus fulfilled this verse?

The Davidic dynasty ceased in 586 BCE when the first temple was destroyed. So, the sceptre departed then.
If that were true then everyone missed the coming of the Messiah, but thank God it’s wrong. Jesus is the Messiah. Judah lost her national identity in 70 A.D., when Rome destroyed Jerusalem (the capital of Judah) and the Jewish Temple. At this point, Judah had ceased to exist as a nation, which completed the fulfillment of Genesis 49:10. As we read in the New Testament scriptures, Jesus Christ had already revealed himself as Shiloh (the Messiah) before the scepter departed from Judah. At the time of Judah’s final destruction, Jesus Christ had already completed his ministry on earth and returned to the right hand of God. https://www.dontbeleftbehind.org/the-scepter-of-judah/
 
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rossh

Well-known member
Gen 49:9 Y'hudah is a lion's cub; my son, you stand over the prey. He crouches down and stretches like a lion; like a lioness, who dares to provoke him? 10 The scepter will not pass from Y'hudah, nor the ruler's staff from between his legs, until he comes to whom [obedience] belongs; and it is he whom the peoples will obey. 11 Tying his donkey to the vine, or: until Shiloh comes his donkey's colt to the choice grapevine, he washes his clothes in wine, his robes in the blood of grapes.

Yeshua is His Name not Jesus of the RCC..
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
If that were true then everyone missed the coming of the Messiah, but thank God it’s wrong. Jesus is the Messiah.
Not really. Jesus didn't fulfill any aspect of this. BTW, mashiach merely means anointed, nothing else. All Davidic kings, priests, Israel, and even Cyrus are called anointed.

Judah lost her national identity in 70 A.D., when Rome destroyed Jerusalem (the capital of Judah) and the Jewish Temple.
Which is false. Jews have maintained a national identity throughout their exile. Read Jeremiah 33:14-26.

Have you not noticed what these people are saying: ‘The LORD has rejected the two families He had chosen’? So they despise My people and no longer regard them as a nation.
This is what the LORD says: If I have not established My covenant with the day and the night and the fixed order of heaven and earth, then I would also reject the descendants of Jacob and of My servant David, so as not to take from his descendants rulers over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For I will restore them from captivity and will have compassion on them.”

More than one future Davidic ruler. Imagine that!

At this point, Judah had ceased to exist as a nation, which completed the fulfillment of Genesis 49:10.
False as proven above.

As we read in the New Testament scriptures, Jesus Christ had already revealed himself as Shiloh (the Messiah) before the scepter departed from Judah.
Actually, Jesus never mentions fulfilling this.

At the time of Judah’s final destruction, Jesus Christ had already completed his ministry on earth and returned to the right hand of God. https://www.dontbeleftbehind.org/the-scepter-of-judah/
Not really. If this were true no 2nd coming would be required. ;)
 
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Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Just saying that supreme irony is that the Jews state that Jewish people today Jesus was not the jewish Messiah, and is for the gentiles, and yet all of the earliest save persons were in fact all Jewish!
Who says the Jews were saved that believed in Jesus? Last I checked they all died.
 

Anthony

Active member
Just saying that supreme irony is that the Jews state that Jewish people today Jesus was not the jewish Messiah, and is for the gentiles, and yet all of the earliest save persons were in fact all Jewish!
No! All Jews were Israelites but not all Israelites were Jews.

The Jews were those living in the southern house of Judah. Initially they consisted of mainly from the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin. But after the northern tribes went apostate some remnants of many tribes crossed over to Judah and they became Jews.

The northern tribes were dispersed in to Greek speaking nations and finally all world over. They were being called gentiles and uncircumcision. However the Jews made some of them proselytes and established synagogues to teach them the Torah on shabbats.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
No! All Jews were Israelites but not all Israelites were Jews.

The Jews were those living in the southern house of Judah. Initially they consisted of mainly from the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin. But after the northern tribes went apostate some remnants of many tribes crossed over to Judah and they became Jews.

The northern tribes were dispersed in to Greek speaking nations and finally all world over. They were being called gentiles and uncircumcision. However the Jews made some of them proselytes and established synagogues to teach them the Torah on shabbats.
Actually, Assyria dispersed the Northern tribes.
 
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