What is Messianic Judaism

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
As I said, you always misunderstand Paul in all his epistles.
He's an apostate in all of his epistles. A fake vision from Jesus and conversion story. The proof in the pudding are Christian and Messianic attitudes to Torah based on his writings.

I've no time to argue with you on all scriptures. When Paul taught about Kosher meats, you accuse him of opposite.
Don't bother. I know an apostate when I hear, see them. I'd read Eusebius EH regarding the Nazarenes, and how they felt about Paul. It's an interesting read.
 

Anthony

Active member
Hebrews=Israelite=Jews
No! Jews basically are from two tribes namely Judah and Benjamin. But when some of the other tribes seeing the apostasy in their own northern kingdom, they walked over to Judea and they were considered to be the Jews. Paul being a Benjamite was a Jew.

All 12 are Hebrews being descendents of Abraham, the Hebrew.

The original meaning of Hebrew is 'to cross over' (crossing over from heathenism to the true YHWH Elohym and from heathen land to promised Land).

Hebrews are from Abraham- Isaac - Jacob (Israel).

In scriptures, the land is divided according to the tribes. So Jews can be differentiated from other tribes.

Jews are the only ones who kept their pure ethnicity.

When Yahusha/Yeshua Messiah came about He came to seek for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Jews particularly in majority opposed Him. Jews claimed self-righteous based on the works of Torah not knowing that they were sinners from their inner beings and needed to be set free from sin.

Paul was a staunch Jew but when he encountered Messiah, he saw himself the most miserable sinner.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
No! Jews basically are from two tribes namely Judah and Benjamin. But when some of the other tribes seeing the apostasy in their own northern kingdom, they walked over to Judea and they were considered to be the Jews. Paul being a Benjamite was a Jew.

All 12 are Hebrews being descendents of Abraham, the Hebrew.

The original meaning of Hebrew is 'to cross over' (crossing over from heathenism to the true YHWH Elohym and from heathen land to promised Land).

Hebrews are from Abraham- Isaac - Jacob (Israel).

In scriptures, the land is divided according to the tribes. So Jews can be differentiated from other tribes.

Jews are the only ones who kept their pure ethnicity.
Actually, if you start from Jacob’s sons and onward, there is intermarriage outside of the 12 tribes. David's lineage is indicative of this. No one is 100% pure from Jacob’s sons.

When Yahusha/Yeshua Messiah came about He came to seek for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Jews particularly in majority opposed Him. Jews claimed self-righteous based on the works of Torah not knowing that they were sinners from their inner beings and needed to be set free from sin.
Isn't Jesus' righteousness based on keeping the Torah?

Paul was a staunch Jew but when he encountered Messiah, he saw himself the most miserable sinner.
He was the ultimate apostate, non-Pharisee, non-student of Gamaliel.
 

Anthony

Active member
He's an apostate in all of his epistles. A fake vision from Jesus and conversion story. The proof in the pudding are Christian and Messianic attitudes to Torah based on his writings.


Don't bother. I know an apostate when I hear, see them. I'd read Eusebius EH regarding the Nazarenes, and how they felt about Paul. It's an interesting read.
I don't need to read man's writings.

You are accusing Paul from Christendom's point of view. Christendom itself doesn't understand Paul's writings and misquote him.

I understand Paul's writings in perspective of Torah. In most of his epistles he speaks of the particular Torah aspect and addresses against the unbelieving Jews which Christianity picks as if Paul is speaking generally of the whole Torah.
 

Anthony

Active member
Actually, if you start from Jacob’s sons and onward, there is intermarriage outside of the 12 tribes. David's lineage is indicative of this. No one is 100% pure from Jacob’s sons.


Isn't Jesus' righteousness based on keeping the Torah?


He was the ultimate apostate, non-Pharisee, non-student of Gamaliel.
In Jesus, Torah is personified.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
I don't need to read man's writings.
And yet you read Paul's writings. You see the hypocrisy?

You are accusing Paul from Christendom's point of view. Christendom itself doesn't understand Paul's writings and misquote him.
But a Jew like myself does understand his apostasy.

I understand Paul's writings in perspective of Torah. In most of his epistles he speaks of the particular Torah aspect and addresses against the unbelieving Jews which Christianity picks as if Paul is speaking generally of the whole Torah.
Read Leviticus 11, then read Romans 14. He's an apostate and teacher of lawlessness.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
As I said, you always misunderstand Paul in all his epistles. I've no time to argue with you on all scriptures. When Paul taught about Kosher meats, you accuse him of opposite.
I've studied Paul's epistles thoroughly. Paul DEMEANED the Law. He said it was up to the individual whether they ate food offered to idols or kept the shabbat. He taught that circumcision was meaningless. He said the law brings a curse. Sorry, but you can't get past that.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
No! Jews basically are from two tribes namely Judah and Benjamin. But when some of the other tribes seeing the apostasy in their own northern kingdom, they walked over to Judea and they were considered to be the Jews. Paul being a Benjamite was a Jew.

All 12 are Hebrews being descendents of Abraham, the Hebrew.

The original meaning of Hebrew is 'to cross over' (crossing over from heathenism to the true YHWH Elohym and from heathen land to promised Land).

Hebrews are from Abraham- Isaac - Jacob (Israel).

In scriptures, the land is divided according to the tribes. So Jews can be differentiated from other tribes.

Jews are the only ones who kept their pure ethnicity.

When Yahusha/Yeshua Messiah came about He came to seek for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Jews particularly in majority opposed Him. Jews claimed self-righteous based on the works of Torah not knowing that they were sinners from their inner beings and needed to be set free from sin.

Paul was a staunch Jew but when he encountered Messiah, he saw himself the most miserable sinner.
I'm sure you already know that "Jew" refers to someone from the Kingdom of Judah, the southern Kingdom. That kingdom included Benjamin, Levi, Judah, AND a lot of refugees from the 10 tribes of the northern kingdom when it fell. So basically, when the Kingdom of Judah went into captivity, it had Israelites from all 12 tribes plus Levi.

Therefore I repeat: Hebrews=Israelites=Jews
 

rossh

Well-known member
So, the Hope of Israel isn't a Messiah to establish the Kingdom of God on earth, thus fulfilling the promises of God to the fathers: Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?
Looks that way . He came to them and they had Him killed and then they paid the price... all the way up to WW2..
 

rossh

Well-known member
Who according to you mean 'Gentiles'.

In OT, the word 'Guyim' meant nations.

If one reads OT, Abraham was prophesied on to be the father of many nations. The prophecy was to do with the multiplication of his seed. The prophecy was made when he was childless. He believed in YHWH's prophecy when he was without the child of promise. This was accounted to him for righteousness.

Most Christians don't know that they are from the mixed seed of Abraham because the northern kingdom of Israel was dispersed after their Assyrian captivity - save alone some settled in Samaria.

Heb 11:11 By belief also, Sarah herself was enabled to conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was past the normal age, because she deemed Him trustworthy who had promised.

12 And so from one, and him as good as dead, were born as numerous as the stars of the heaven, as countless as the sand which is by the seashore. Gen. 15:5; 22:17.
By adoption we become followers and of Abraham... By our confession of Faith to Yeshua we also become one with the Messiah as also those of Israel who confess the same Faith.. in Yeshua.. Yeshua did not come to us Gentiles..
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
Looks that way . He came to them and they had Him killed and then they paid the price... all the way up to WW2..
Sorry, but no Messiah has yet established a reign from Jerusalem. No Messiah has come yet to bring all the Jews back to the Promised land. No Messiah has yet come to usher in an era of world peace. Thus, no messiah has come yet, period.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
Who according to you mean 'Gentiles'.

In OT, the word 'Guyim' meant nations.

If one reads OT, Abraham was prophesied on to be the father of many nations. The prophecy was to do with the multiplication of his seed. The prophecy was made when he was childless. He believed in YHWH's prophecy when he was without the child of promise. This was accounted to him for righteousness.

Most Christians don't know that they are from the mixed seed of Abraham because the northern kingdom of Israel was dispersed after their Assyrian captivity - save alone some settled in Samaria.

Heb 11:11 By belief also, Sarah herself was enabled to conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was past the normal age, because she deemed Him trustworthy who had promised.

12 And so from one, and him as good as dead, were born as numerous as the stars of the heaven, as countless as the sand which is by the seashore. Gen. 15:5; 22:17.
Anthony, not only do you have no evidence that Jesus believers are the descendents of the 10 tribes, the very idea that you could tell a descendent by their beliefs is absurd.

Sorry dude, but you are not part of the People of Israel. That doesn't mean you are a bad person or inferior or anything of the kind. God loves Gentiles. Think Noah, Job, Naaman, etc. Indeed God loved Gentiles so much that he sent an entire prophet to the city of Ninevah to save it. So be happy and thank God for making you what you are. No need to be what you are not.
 

rossh

Well-known member
Sorry, but no Messiah has yet established a reign from Jerusalem. No Messiah has come yet to bring all the Jews back to the Promised land. No Messiah has yet come to usher in an era of world peace. Thus, no messiah has come yet, period.
He is in the hearts of true believers, you need to look inward and have circumcision of the Heart.
Of course He has not come back again yet,, everyone knows this...
There will be wars and rumors of war...
 

rossh

Well-known member
Sorry, but no Messiah has yet established a reign from Jerusalem. No Messiah has come yet to bring all the Jews back to the Promised land. No Messiah has yet come to usher in an era of world peace. Thus, no messiah has come yet, period.
well,, as I see it, Jews are back again in Israel.. and you say otherwise, ask, why were they not in Israel for 2000 years then ? What will be happening when Israel sees again the one that they killed ?
 

rossh

Well-known member
He's an apostate in all of his epistles. A fake vision from Jesus and conversion story. The proof in the pudding are Christian and Messianic attitudes to Torah based on his writings.


Don't bother. I know an apostate when I hear, see them. I'd read Eusebius EH regarding the Nazarenes, and how they felt about Paul. It's an interesting read.
Well, so what ever makes you think that Jews are considered to be Saints by God ? Seriously ?
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
Well, so what ever makes you think that Jews are considered to be Saints by God ? Seriously ?
Are we always well behaved? No. But we are still set aside as a nation of priests.

Exodus 19:6

and you shall be to Me a nation of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel.”
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Well, so what ever makes you think that Jews are considered to be Saints by God ? Seriously ?
Daniel 7:25
He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.

You see, the outgrowth of the 4th empire, Rome, is the Christian Church. It is the beast that has changed the religion, festivals, Sabbath, commandments, etc., and persecuted Jews since its inception.

Psalm 2:1-3
Why do the nations (gentiles) rage and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together, against the LORD and against His Anointed One: “Let us break their chains and cast away Their cords.”


Thank you for asking. ;)
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
He is in the hearts of true believers, you need to look inward and have circumcision of the Heart.
Of course He has not come back again yet,, everyone knows this...
There will be wars and rumors of war...
Don't forget the false pretend Messiahs that don't fulfill their missions;)
 
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