What is Messianic Judaism

American Gothic

Well-known member
"The way of light is this:
if anyone desires to attain eternal life...
you must love and honor God, your Creator, and
glorify Jesus who redeemed you from death.
Be simple in heart, and rich in spirit..."

"The way of darkness is crooked and completely cursed.
It is the way of eternal death and punishment. Those that
walk in darkness embrace things that destroy their own soul...
Those who walk in darkness persecute the good, hate the truth,
love lies, don't know the reward of righteousness, nor adhere to what
is good.."

"It is essentially necessary then that we learn, practice, and share
the three fold witness ordained by God,...
the facts about eternal life, (the true history of) creation, and prophecy. (as taught in Scripture)
Those who practice these things will be glorified in God's kingdom,
but whoever chooses the opposite will perish."
- epistle of Barnabas
 

American Gothic

Well-known member

The Light of Christ’s Gospel

"Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose heart. But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor [a]handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake. For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." 2 Corinthians 4
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
One God

Q: A Jewish friend has asked -
"If there is only one God, then why must we believe in Jesus? Why can't we just believe in "God" as we always have?"

A: There are two ways to answer this question -
First, because the Messiah is the second member of the Triune God, to believe in Jesus is to believe in one God. Second, from the Old Testament onward, God always had a mediator. Under the Mosaic Law, a person could not approach God directly through the sacrificial system but had to approach Him by means of God's chosen mediator, who was the Jewish High Priest. Just as the Old Testament believer needed to go through the High Priest, the New Testament believer must also go through the High Priest. In this case, the High Priest is Yeshua HaMashiach.
- Q & As Ariel Ministries
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
Its difficult to get through to the unteachable.:rolleyes:
how true. but this is our work

The Shema

Deuteronomy 6:4: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!"

Deuteronomy 6:4, known as the SHEMA, has always been Israel's great confession. It is this verse more than any other that is used to affirm the fact that God is one and is often used to contradict the concept of plurality in the Godhead. But is it a valid use of this verse?
On the one hand it should be noted that the very words "our God" are in the plural in the Hebrew text and literally mean "our Gods." However, the main argument lies in the word "one," which is the Hebrew word, ECHAD. A glance through the Hebrew text where the word is used elsewhere can quickly show that the word echad does not mean an absolute "one" but a compound "one."
For instance, in Genesis 1:5 the combination of evening and morning comprise one (echad) day. In Genesis 2:24 a man and a woman come together in marriage and the two "shall become one (echad) flesh." In Ezra 2:64 we are told that the whole assembly was as one (echad), though, of course, it was composed of numerous people. Ezekiel 37:17 provides a rather striking example where two sticks are combined to become one (echad). Thus, use of the word echad in Scripture shows it to be a compound and not an absolute unity.
There is a Hebrew word that does mean an absolute unity and that is YACHID, which is found in many Scripture passages, (Genesis 22:2,12; Judges 11:34; Psalm 22:21: 25:16; Proverbs 4:3; Jeremiah 6:26; Amos 8:10; Zechariah 12:10) the emphasis being on the meaning of "only." If Moses intended to teach God's absolute oneness as over against a compound unity, this would have been a far more appropriate word. In fact, Maimonides noted the strength of "yachid' and chose to use that word in his "Thirteen Articles of Faith'' in place of echad. However, Deuteronomy 6:4 (the Shema) does not use "yachid" in reference to God.

 

101G

Well-known member
A glance through the Hebrew text where the word is used elsewhere can quickly show that the word echad does not mean an absolute "one" but a compound "one."
thanks for the definition. if I may, ask a few questions, "is the LORD God and Lord God a compound "ONE"?" yes or no.
thanks in advance,

PICJAG, 101G.
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
thanks for the definition. if I may, ask a few questions, "is the LORD God and Lord God a compound "ONE"?" yes or no.
thanks in advance,
I'm not sure specifically what you are asking...(?)
or implying with every cap vis a vis non caps
perhaps you will clarify...

IMV
the one true and living God, who is One...is Father, Son, and Spirit
Messiah Jesus said He and His Father were one, but not that they were the same Person
the one God is a compound One -
a Triunity in which each have the characteristics of individual Personhood ie. intellect/emotion/will and are in relationship

Messiah would be David's son, but also is David's lord (greater than David) because Messiah is God the Son incarnate


LORD/Adonai used as substitute for the Tetragrammaton
????
 
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101G

Well-known member
I'm not sure specifically what you are asking...(?)
or implying with every cap vis a vis non caps
perhaps you will clarify...

IMV
the one true and living God, who is One...is Father, Son, and Spirit
Messiah Jesus said He and His Father were one, but not that they were the same Person
the one God is a compound One -
a Triunity in which each have the characteristics of individual Personhood ie. intellect/emotion/will and are in relationship

Messiah would be David's son, but also is David's lord (greater than David) because Messiah is God the Son incarnate


LORD/Adonai used as substitute for the Tetragrammaton
????
thanks for the reply, well "Lord" is Adonai also in Psa;ms 110. Lord in verse 1:
H113 אָדוֹן 'adown (aw-done') n-m.
אָדֹן 'adon (aw-done') [shortened]
1. sovereign (i.e. controller, human or divine).
2. lord.
{also used as a prefix for names}
[from an unused root (meaning to rule)]
KJV: lord, master, owner.

now this same "Lord" in verse 1 who is at "God's Righjt is in verse 5,
Psalms 110:5 " The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath."
and here "Lord" is translated as, H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy') n-m.
1. (meaning) Lord (used as a proper name of God only).
2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
[am emphatic form of H113]

KJV: (my) Lord.
Root(s): H113

my source for the above definitions is the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments.

so, we can see that the Lord in verse 1 is the "GOD" of Israel. I checked it with the Hebrew Interlinear.

knowing that, my question is this "is the "LORD" H3068 יְהוָה Yhvah (yeh-vaw') is the compound "ONE" with the"Lord" H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy'). Yes or No.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
now this same "Lord" in verse 1 who is at "God's Right is in verse 5,
I think God the Father said to God the Son v1 (?)
the Father is dealt with thru the Son

the Son is the Priest forever v4
the Son will crush v5
the Son will judge v6
1. (meaning) Lord (used as a proper name of God only).
2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
so, we can see that the Lord in verse 1 is the "GOD" of Israel. I checked it with the Hebrew Interlinear.
א לְדָוִד, מִזְמוֹר:
נְאֻם יְהוָה, לַאדֹנִי--שֵׁב לִימִינִי; עַד-אָשִׁית אֹיְבֶיךָ, הֲדֹם לְרַגְלֶיךָ.
1 A Psalm of David. {N}
The LORD saith unto my lord: 'Sit thou at My right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.'
just cut and pasting this for reference
not using to try to prove anything
knowing that, my question is this "is the "LORD" H3068 יְהוָה Yhvah (yeh-vaw') is the compound "ONE" with the"Lord" H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy'). Yes or No.
this is still confusing me
maybe share yr view or point a bit
and I can respond back better
 
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101G

Well-known member
I think God the Father said to God the Son v1 (?)
thanks for the reply, but didn't your web site, the one you posted say, in it's Conclusion, "Consistently and without fail, the second person is sent by the first person". if true who was sent here in Isaiah 48:16 " Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."
question, who is the "ME" that was sent?

PICJAG. 101G
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
thanks for the reply, but didn't your web site, the one you posted say, in it's Conclusion, "Consistently and without fail, the second person is sent by the first person". if true who was sent here in Isaiah 48:16 " Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."
question, who is the "ME" that was sent?
the Son, the very Image, etc. the Person who can be seen, and we still live
the one who had a meal with Abraham, when God had a meal with Abraham

"before Abraham was, I Am"
????
 
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101G

Well-known member
the Son, the very Image, etc. the Person who can be seen, and we still live
the one who had a meal with Abraham, when God had a meal with Abraham

"before Abraham was, I Am"
????
so the Son sent the Father? ... remember I aske who is the me that was sent, is not the Father the "LORD", all cap? for the Lord God is
H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy') n-m.
1. (meaning) Lord (used as a proper name of God only).
2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
[am emphatic form of H113]
KJV: (my) Lord.
Root(s): H113

and H113 is at the LORD right.. do you follow what I have said?

PICJAG, 101G.
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
so the Son sent the Father? ...
no, I think when God appears it is the Son
like Pharaoh might send his vizier Joseph to do some business on Pharaoh's behalf
the right-hand man is sent as representative, and has the authority given to them
whoever rejects the Son is rejecting the Father who sent Him
remember I asked who is the Me that was sent,
above
is not the Father the "LORD", all cap? for the Lord God is
H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy') n-m.
1. (meaning) Lord (used as a proper name of God only).
2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
is this a Who specifically is called YHVH question?
 

101G

Well-known member
thanks for the reply AG, but are you understanding what I'm asking"?
in Isaiah 48:16 " Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."
question, who is the "ME" that was sent?

just look at what I'm asking. ok. the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me." the me is the I at the start of the verse who was at the beginning.
PICJAG, 101G.
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
just look at what I'm asking. ok. the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me." the me is the I at the start of the verse who was at the beginning.
I think it's the Messiah talking

so it's
Jesus/God the Son/the God of Abraham/Isaac/Jacob/etc.
????
 

101G

Well-known member
I think it's the Messiah talking

so it's
Jesus/God the Son/the God of Abraham/Isaac/Jacob/etc.
????
thanks for the reply. understand I'm not testing you to see if you're right or wrong, no, that's foolishness, and we're not here for that, but for the TRUTH. ok. we, (you and I), seek the truth together. so if, if it the Messiah speaking, "the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me." then the Lord God must be the Father, (the First person), right, because the web page you pointed out, said this in it's conclusion, "Consistently and without fail, the second person is sent by the first person" so the first person here is the Lord God, correct.

lets check the record and seek the truth. in the book of Revelation, it states this, Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"
so "he" sent his angel to John, but who is the "he" that sent his angel?" the answer, the Lord God, because the angel who was sent, tells us who sent him, Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done." the same Lord God, (the First person), in Isaiah 48:16.... correct. but there is a problem, the Lord God is the Lord Jesus, because in the same 22nd chapter this at verse 16, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

so it was the Lord God... JESUS who sent his angel, the same Lord God in Isaiah 48:16. or else there are two Lord Gods, which is anti bible. so the Lord God who is the lord Jesus was sent by "WHO" then"?

see the dilemma now for a two person Godhead. or even a three person Godhead.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

101G

Well-known member
to all my sisters and brothers in Christ Jesus, be ye of Messianic Judaism or not but consider this.
from listening to your responses, here in the forum Messianic Judaism. we might can understand each other better on the terminology of the term ECHAD in the way you have respond, and maybe we can come to a better understanding of a UNITY or a compound unity.

follow me carefully. in the definition of ECHAD, below, notice the purple, [a numeral from H258].

STEP #1 "UNITY
ECHAD: H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]

KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258

now, lets look at H258

H258 אָחַד 'achad (aw-chad') v.
1. to unify.
2. (figuratively) collect (one's thoughts).
[perhaps a primitive root]
KJV: go one way or other.

definition #1. states to unify, but remember from ECHAD: H259 it's [a numeral from H258]
so your unity, it is in a NUMBER. hold that thought ..... is not Ordinal is numeral? and the definition of ECHAD above, #2. states, 2. (as an ordinal) first. so if the "LORD", all cap is the Ordinal First/Spirit, title Father, then the "Lord" is the Ordinal Last/title Son in Flesh, in dispensation of TIME, PLACE, ORDER, and or RANK,.

so we're not that far apart. I understand the ECHAD in a NUMERAL form as Ordinal First and Ordinal Last. your UNITY would follow the same understanding in NUMERAL, of Ordinal First and Ordinal Last in what you call a Unity of ONE.

I'll hold Step #2. for now, and let you examine what I have just posted.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
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American Gothic

Well-known member
so it was the Lord God... JESUS who sent his angel, the same Lord God
God may send an angel/angels

God may send/come as
the Angel of the Lord

in Isaiah 48:16. or else there are two Lord Gods, which is anti bible. so the Lord God who is the lord Jesus was sent by "WHO" then"?
Does God have a God?

"Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions."
Psalm 45
 

101G

Well-known member
continue from Post #996

#2, the compound unity?
Share as a Verb, the Opposite of to divide something with another or others Is to unify or amalgamate. So the unity is in the equal sharing of ONESELF in the ordinal designation of FIRST and LAST, so the compound unity is in the numeral of Ordinal First and Ordinal Last of ONE’S OWN-SELF. Supportive scripture, Isaiah 63:5 " And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

His own ARM is him, his wisdom Proverb, and his Power, ie Isaiah 44:23, and John 1:3 clearly shows this unity as the “EQUAL SHARE” of himself in flesh as the Messiah, per Isaiah chapter 53.

So in conclusion, this unity of God is not in PERSONS… no but in a numerical difference of only one PERSON, just as G243 Allos states, Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort. That numerical difference is FIRST and LAST just as the bible states.

Oh how easy it is to just follow God in his WORD.

My source for the definition, “ANOTHER” G243 Allos, is the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words

This is the Godhead revealed, God Equally shared in a numerical difference of FIRST and LAST, titles, LORD/Father, CREATOR, and MAKER of all things. Last, titles, Lord/Son, REDEEMER, and SAVIOUR of all things that he created and made. Oh this is too easy not to understand.

The ONLY “PERSON” in the Godhead ks the Holy Spirit, who is YESHUA/JESUS in the diversity of himself as Father/Lord, and Son/Lord. In the resurrection, the amalgamation of First and Last in the NEW CREATION that is to come.

Romans 1:19 " Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them." Romans 1:20 " For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"
AMEN,

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Oseas

Member
I'm not sure specifically what you are asking...(?)
or implying with every cap vis a vis non caps
perhaps you will clarify...

IMV
the one true and living God, who is One...is Father, Son, and Spirit
Messiah Jesus said He and His Father were one, but not that they were the same Person
the one God is a compound One -
a Triunity in which each have the characteristics of individual Personhood ie. intellect/emotion/will and are in relationship

Messiah would be David's son, but also is David's lord (greater than David) because Messiah is God the Son incarnate


LORD/Adonai used as substitute for the Tetragrammaton
????

IS NOT THE PERSON OF HOLY SPIRIT THE LAWFUL / LEGITIMATE YOUNGER BROTHER OF JESUS? LUKE 15:v.32

1John 5:v.7

There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father-The WORD- , the Word-The Word made flesh-JESUS- , and the Holy Spirit (who is not a ghost as is written in English language, but a Person) : and these three are One.

THREE DIVINE PERSONS
We need to re-estudy our conceptions about the person of Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, mentioned in John 14:v.16 and 26, and I hope he helps to all to know him better, because he is not the own JESUS in His return as some think, no, absolutely no. In fact, he is the third among the three. DETAIL: He is the LESSER among the three.
Would not the person of the Holy Spirit be the LAWFUL / LEGITIMATE younger brother of JESUS?-Luke 15:v.32. Maybe EQUALLY to ALL READERS of this present post being brothers of JESUS by adoption? By the way, this was/is one of JESUS's main objetive-John 17:v.20-21. Check it.

Many many time ago (18th century),"Mr. Porson asked; “Why is the epithet [holy,]” after being twice omitted, added [to Spirit] in the seventh verse?"
Beza says, “In order to distinguish one Spirit from the other, ut ab eo distinguatur cujus fit mentio in sequenti versu." Perhaps, too, because when the Three Divine Persons are connumerated in the same passage, as in Matth. xxviii. 19, 2 Cor. xiii. 13, the epithet was usually added. It may also be asked, why, in the original, the expression of unity in the two verses differs, one from the other, both doctrinally and grammatically? The reason appears to be, because in one the unity is essential and real; in the other, ADVENTITiOUS and APPARENT only; and because the eighth verse is dependent on the seventh, as a RELATIVE is on its antecedent.*
 
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