What is the best word or phrase to fill in the blank with?

[Yahchristian]

One Trinitarian said...

As I said in the beginning, the doctrine of the Holy trinity is plain in Scripture, as it shows that Father, Son, & Holy Spirit are Members of the one Godhead, each being a different personage while still being one.

But another Trinitarian said...

Somehow the word Godhead came to mean "trinity" to some, including me in the past until I looked at it.

But it doesn't mean this, it means "divine nature."

So TRINITARIANS...

What is the best word or phrase to fill in the blank with, Jesus is ______________________ the Godhead (theotes)?

A) a member of
B) a partaker of
C) other, please explain

Colossians 2:9... For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

I ask because I do not see how you can be a "member" of divine nature. But maybe you do.


P.S.

I would fill in the blank with "the incarnation of". Here is an overview of what I believe...

For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Word of God) with a glorious body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created a human spirit and soul for each of us, God himself as the Word became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.

 

[robycop3]

For me, it's "A".

 

[Yahchristian]

For me, it's "A".

And do you think "Godhead" (theotes) means "divine nature" or "the Trinity" or something else?

 

[Kampioen]

So TRINIITARIANS...

What is the best word or phrase to fill in the blank with, Jesus is ______________________ the Godhead (theotes)?

A) a member of
B) a partaker of
C) other, please explain

Colossians 2:9... For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

I ask because I do not see how you can be a "member" of divine nature. But maybe you do.

P.S.

I would fill in the blank with "the incarnation of".

C. Jesus is the Word, a distinction of the Godhead, incarnate.

The difficulty I have with Oneness is ...
How can God genuinely communicate with a Son who He can't help but experience is Himself speaking?

What is your answer?

 

[Our Lord's God]

One Trinitarian said...


But another Trinitarian said...



So TRINITARIANS...

What is the best word or phrase to fill in the blank with, Jesus is ______________________ the Godhead (theotes)?

A) a member of
B) a partaker of
C) other, please explain

Colossians 2:9... For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

I ask because I do not see how you can be a "member" of divine nature. But maybe you do.


P.S.

I would fill in the blank with "the incarnation of". Here is an overview of what I believe...

For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Word of God) with a glorious body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created a human spirit and soul for each of us, God himself as the Word became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.

B.

C. Jesus is the Word, a distinction of the Godhead, incarnate.

The difficulty I have with Oneness is ...
How can God genuinely communicate with a Son who He can't help but experience is Himself speaking?

What is your answer?

B.

And believers too are partakers of the divine nature just like he was.

 

[johnny guitar]

And do you think "Godhead" (theotes) means "divine nature" or "the Trinity" or something else?

It means Deity and A is the correct answer.

 

[johnny guitar]

B.


B.

And believers too are partakers of the divine nature just like he was.

Jesus Christ is Divine BY nature. We are NOT.
0% of the Godhead dwells in any believer bodily.

 

[eternomade]

C. Jesus is the Word, a distinction of the Godhead, incarnate.

The difficulty I have with Oneness is ...
How can God genuinely communicate with a Son who He can't help but experience is Himself speaking?

What is your answer?

His answer in another thread was an example of one watching themselves on a video recording.

I am not necessarily oneness but I would argue that when Jesus was communicating with His Father, that it was MAN speaking to GOD. God has no need to pray, eat, learn, etc. Those are all experienced by man. But, somehow Jesus experienced all of these things, being God Himself.

Trinitarians have a hard time explaining why God would pray to God.

Do you have any examples in the OT of the Son communicating with the Father?

 

[robycop3]

And do you think "Godhead" (theotes) means "divine nature" or "the Trinity" or something else?

It means the full Being of God.

What we are doing here is trying to understand the nature of God, which we cannot do. It's established in Scripture that Father, Son, & Holy Spirit are all God. Remember, Jesus said that speaking against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, so if the Holy Spirit was not also God, such badmouthing could be forgiven. We know Jesus is God, & He said He could forgive badmouthing against Himself. So I hope every non-trinitarian out there is careful not to commit unforgivable sin.

 

[Kampioen]

II am not necessarily oneness but I would argue that when Jesus was communicating with His Father, that it was MAN speaking to GOD. God has no need to pray, eat, learn, etc. Those are all experienced by man. But, somehow Jesus experienced all of these things, being God Himself.

I don't disagree with any of that.

But it doesn't answer how the Father would be able to prevent from experiencing being the the Son who He is speaking to, making no real communication.

Many of the older Oneness believe in more of a Nestorian Oneness, where Jesus is God and a non-God conjoined as one, that can still talk to each other, where God can be said to be God and man. Is that your view?

Trinitarians have a hard time explaining why God would pray to God.

Trins believe God already has interacting distinctions, like between a man and His conscience and subconscious.

When Jesus became a man He continued this distinction but from the mindset of a man. Thus God praying to God is not a problem.

God by omniscience alone already experiences all non-omniscient scenarios without being them. Jesus is the Word under the influence of the non-omniscient human senses/nature, completing a human person.

Do you have any examples in the OT of the Son communicating with the Father?

I don't know about Scriptures concerning communication in the Old Testament. But the Son existed in some form.

Prov 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his **son's name**, if thou canst tell?

I know Jesus remembers being with the Father before the world began (Joh 17:5).

The Word that was with God, was God, indicating distinction (Joh 1:1).

Only in the New Testament is there an actual physical Son (still God) praying to His Father.

Those are the conclusions I see reconcile Scriptures.

 

[Yahchristian]

"Godhead" means the full Being of God.

Normally the word "means" is used to equate two things. So...

Is this also true, "the full Being of God means Godhead"?

We know Jesus is God.

Normally the word "is" is used to equate two things. So...

Is this also true, "God is Jesus"?

 

[robycop3]

Normally the word "means" is used to equate two things. So...

Is this also true, "the full Being of God means Godhead"?




Normally the word "is" is used to equate two things. So...

Is this also true, "God is Jesus"?

Yes, and:

"God is Yahweh, the Father."

"God is the Holy Spirit."

 

[Yahchristian]

Yes, and:

"God is Yahweh, the Father."

"God is the Holy Spirit."

By saying "God is Yahweh, the Father."

But NOT saying "God is Yahweh, the Holy Spirit."

Are you implying that Yahweh is only the name of the Father?

If not, why did you prefix the Father with the name but not the Holy Spirit?

 

[eternomade]

I don't disagree with any of that.

But it doesn't answer how the Father would be able to prevent from experiencing being the the Son who He is speaking to, making no real communication.

Many of the older Oneness believe in more of a Nestorian Oneness, where Jesus is God and a non-God conjoined as one, that can still talk to each other, where God can be said to be God and man. Is that your view?

Trins believe God already has interacting distinctions, like between a man and His conscience and subconscious.

When Jesus became a man He continued this distinction but from the mindset of a man. Thus God praying to God is not a problem.

God by omniscience alone already experiences all non-omniscient scenarios without being them. Jesus is the Word under the influence of the non-omniscient human senses/nature, completing a human person.

I don't know about Scriptures concerning communication in the Old Testament. But the Son existed in some form.

Prov 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his **son's name**, if thou canst tell?

I know Jesus remembers being with the Father before the world began (Joh 17:5).

The Word that was with God, was God, indicating distinction (Joh 1:1).

Only in the New Testament is there an actual physical Son (still God) praying to His Father.

Those are the conclusions I see reconcile Scriptures.

I believe that God is ontologically one, rather than three. I believe the Father Son and Holy Spirit eternally and simultaneously exist as God. I just don't use the word "person" to distinguish.