What is the Difference Between the Roman Catholic Mass and the Lord's Supper?

RayneBeau

Well-known member
This is an important question, since the "Mass" is the heart of most Roman Catholic weekly gatherings. Non-RC Christians have the Lord's Supper, which is also called communion - so what are the differences? Does attending the Roman Catholic 'Sacrifice of the Mass' expiate man's sins and the punishment for those sins?
 
For Catholics, the Mass is the Lord's Supper and the Lord's Supper is the Mass. They are interchangeable.

The difference is in how Protestants and Catholics understand it.

For Catholics, Mass is the sacrifice of Christ re-presented under the signs of bread and wine. It is the same sacrifice that took place on the cross; the difference is in how the sacrifice is presented. On the cross, the sacrifice was earthly, fleshy and bloody. In the Mass, the sacrifice is not-earthly, it is glorified and it is not bloody and fleshy. The manner in which the sacrifice was presented on the cross lead to the suffering and death of Christ. This is because its was presented in its earthly form. In the Mass, the sacrifice does not lead to the suffering and death of Christ because it is not earthy, but is glorified. It is also not bloody and fleshy; it is presented in Sacramental form under the signs of bread and wine. Christ cannot die again. The resurrection is what makes the Mass possible. Without the resurrection, there could be no Mass.

Does the Mass "expiate man's sins and the punishment for those sins?" In a general sense, yes. The other Sacraments flow from the Mass. The other Sacraments, therefore are extensions of the Mass. They are the particular way the graces Christ won are applied.

For Protestants, whatever the Lord's Supper is, whatever they believe about it, it isn't what I said above.
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
For Catholics, the Mass is the Lord's Supper and the Lord's Supper is the Mass. They are interchangeable.

The difference is in how Protestants and Catholics understand it.

For Catholics, Mass is the sacrifice of Christ re-presented under the signs of bread and wine. It is the same sacrifice that took place on the cross; the difference is in how the sacrifice is presented. On the cross, the sacrifice was earthly, fleshy and bloody. In the Mass, the sacrifice is not-earthly, it is glorified and it is not bloody and fleshy. The manner in which the sacrifice was presented on the cross lead to the suffering and death of Christ. This is because its was presented in its earthly form. In the Mass, the sacrifice does not lead to the suffering and death of Christ because it is not earthy, but is glorified. It is also not bloody and fleshy; it is presented in Sacramental form under the signs of bread and wine. Christ cannot die again. The resurrection is what makes the Mass possible. Without the resurrection, there could be no Mass.

Does the Mass "expiate man's sins and the punishment for those sins?" In a general sense, yes. The other Sacraments flow from the Mass. The other Sacraments, therefore are extensions of the Mass. They are the particular way the graces Christ won are applied.

For Protestants, whatever the Lord's Supper is, whatever they believe about it, it isn't what I said above.
Was a sacrifice presented at the Last Supper in the Upper Room?
Did the Last Supper "expiate man's sins and the punishment for those sins?"
 

mica

Well-known member
For Catholics, the Mass is the Lord's Supper and the Lord's Supper is the Mass. They are interchangeable.

The difference is in how Protestants and Catholics understand it.

For Catholics, Mass is the sacrifice of Christ re-presented under the signs of bread and wine. It is the same sacrifice that took place on the cross; the difference is in how the sacrifice is presented. On the cross, the sacrifice was earthly, fleshy and bloody. In the Mass, the sacrifice is not-earthly, it is glorified and it is not bloody and fleshy. The manner in which the sacrifice was presented on the cross lead to the suffering and death of Christ. This is because its was presented in its earthly form. In the Mass, the sacrifice does not lead to the suffering and death of Christ because it is not earthy, but is glorified. It is also not bloody and fleshy; it is presented in Sacramental form under the signs of bread and wine. Christ cannot die again. The resurrection is what makes the Mass possible. Without the resurrection, there could be no Mass.

Does the Mass "expiate man's sins and the punishment for those sins?" In a general sense, yes. The other Sacraments flow from the Mass. The other Sacraments, therefore are extensions of the Mass. They are the particular way the graces Christ won are applied.

For Protestants, whatever the Lord's Supper is, whatever they believe about it, it isn't what I said above.
I have ocean front property in Arizona for sale. let me know if you are interested.
 
I have ocean front property in Arizona for sale. let me know if you are interested.
I will talk to you after the ice caps melt in the next 12 years because we didn't spend 90 Trillion dollars for AOC's Green New Disaster program---woops, I meant "Green New Deal." Once the ice caps melt maybe there will be some ocean front property available.
 
Was a sacrifice presented at the Last Supper in the Upper Room?

Was "a" sacrifice presented at the Last Supper in the Upper Room? No. "A" sacrifice was not presented at the Last Supper in the Upper Room. The article "A" suggests that there are multiple sacrifices when in fact is there only one. There is ONE sacrifice and that is Christ.

THEE sacrifice was presented at the Last Supper in the Upper Room according to Sacrament.

You know--it might be good if we define our terms here.

How are you defining "Sacrifice?" Protestants seem to think "sacrifice" means "death" and "suffering." "Sacrifice" in the earthly sense certainly means that; but Christ no longer lives an earthy life. In the resurrection, Christ's flesh is glorified. Christ can now offer himself without suffering and dying.

I guess I can understand why Protestants find the concept of ONE sacrifice of Christ, yet presented at individual Masses all over the world difficult to understand. Protestants are unwittingly steeped in Nominalist philosophy of the reformation which denies universals. Because of this, Protestants have a difficult time grasping the "ONE" vs. many. This is why for Protestants, the idea that we have individual Masses comes across as a "re-sacrifice" of Christ and not simply a participation in and re-presentation of the ONE sacrifice of Christ.



Did the Last Supper "expiate man's sins and the punishment for those sins?"

In a general sense yes. I say in a general sense because really, the whole of the life of Christ, both earthly and heavenly expiates men's sins. Christ is the sacrifice; Christ is the victory simultaneously.
 
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1Thess521

Well-known member
Was "a" sacrifice presented at the Last Supper in the Upper Room? No. "A" sacrifice was not presented at the Last Supper in the Upper Room. The article "A" suggests that there are multiple sacrifices when in fact is only one. There is ONE sacrifice and that is Christ.

THEE sacrifice was presented at the Last Supper in the Upper Room according to Sacrament.

You know--it might be good if we define our terms here.

How are you defining "Sacrifice?" Protestants seem to think "sacrifice" means "death" and "suffering." "Sacrifice" in the earthly sense certainly means that; but Christ no longer lives an earthy life. In the resurrection, Christ's flesh is glorified. Christ can now offer himself without suffering and dying.



In a general sense yes. I say in a general sense because really, the whole of the life of Christ, both earthly and heavenly expiates men's sins. Christ is the sacrifice; Christ is the victory simultaneously.
Yes: I am talking about THE sacrifice of Christ; that involves a death

Hebrews 9:
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, (diathéké) so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. 16 For where a will (diathéké) is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established.17For a will (diathéké) takes effect ONLY at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive."

1 Corinthians 15:3
Christ died
for our sins, according to Scriptures

Colossians 1:21-22
And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you
in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
 
Yes: I am talking about THE sacrifice of Christ; that involves a death

Hebrews 9:
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, (diathéké) so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. 16 For where a will (diathéké) is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established.17For a will (diathéké) takes effect ONLY at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive."

1 Corinthians 15:3
Christ died
for our sins, according to Scriptures

Colossians 1:21-22
And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you
in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
Paul is talking about the earthy work of Christ, which indeed reconciles us. Christ needed to die in order to save us because we were all dead. In order to reach us in death, Christ needed to die.

This reality is presented in Sacramental Form, rather than earthy form in the Mass. When I say that Christ no longer dies, I mean that he no longer suffers and dies an earthy death. Christ still pours himself out for the life of the world, however. What do you think he is doing in heaven, if not that? The Mass is the presentation of this heavenly reality in Sacramental Form.

I think the mistake Protestants make is in thinking of the concept of "death" in too earthy a fashion. Christ in offering himself does experience "death" but this death is not an earthy type of death. All sacrifice must involve death; this does not entail that the only way for Christ to "die" is to physically die. The "death" is in the outpouring of the life of Christ in glory.

The Cross event is just the outpouring of the life of Christ in an earthy fashion. The outpouring, the sacrifice does not end when Christ says "It is finished." What ends is the earthy expression of the sacrifice. What ends is Christ's earthy life and work.

Christ's entire life IS sacrifice. The cross is not the sacrifice; the cross is just the means Christ used to offer himself in an earthy fashion. Christ IS the sacrifice. Sacrifice is what it means to be God the Son.
 
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Actually, Mass is the sacrifice of Christ immolated under the signs of bread and wine .
That is correct. I forgot that part. Very good!

When the body, blood, soul and divinity are received Christ is "immolated" under the sign of bread and wine. But this "immolation" is not earthy; that is, it does not involve a physical death. It is, nevertheless a real and true immolation.
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
Paul is talking about the earthy work of Christ, which indeed reconciles us. Christ needed to die in order to save us because we were all dead. In order to reach us in death, Christ needed to die.

This reality is presented in Sacramental Form, rather than earthy form in the Mass. When I say that Christ no longer dies, I mean that he no longer suffers and dies an earthy death. Christ still pours himself out for the life of the world, however. What do you think he is doing in heaven, if not that? The Mass is the presentation of this heavenly reality in Sacramental Form.

I think the mistake Protestants make is in thinking of the concept of "death" in too earthy a fashion. Christ in offering himself does experience "death" but this death is not an earthy type of death. All sacrifice must involve death; this does not entail that the only way for Christ to "die" is to physically die. The "death" is in the outpouring of the life of Christ in glory.

The Cross event is just the outpouring of the life of Christ in an earthy fashion. The outpouring, the sacrifice does not end when Christ says "It is finished." What ends is the earthy expression of the sacrifice. What ends is Christ's earthy life and work.

Christ's entire life IS sacrifice. The cross is not the sacrifice; the cross is just the means Christ used to offer himself in an earthy fashion. Christ IS the sacrifice. Sacrifice is what it means to be God the Son.
"Christ still pours himself out for the life of the world"
What does that even mean?

You know--it might be good if we define our terms here.
 
"Christ still pours himself out for the life of the world"
What does that even mean?

You know--it might be good if we define our terms here.
What do you think it means to be God the Son if not that? How do you think Christ loves the Father if not this? What do you think life in the Trinity is if not this?

In essence, what do you think love is, if not this?

Do you think love is something other than pouring out your life for the sake of the other and in so doing finding life? The "death" is in loosing your life in the outpouring for the sake of the beloved. But in dying, you find life because you take on the life of the beloved. This is exactly what Christ does for us: he gives us his life and we give him our life. The "death" of Christ is in offering his life for us. This exactly what is going on in the Trinity; Christ also pours out his life for the Father.

Protestants are so darn one dimensional in their thinking. This is why it is difficult to explain Catholicism.
 
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1Thess521

Well-known member
What do you think it means to be God the Son if not that? How do you think Christ loves the Father if not this? What do you think life in the Trinity is if not this?

In essence, what do you think love is, if not this?

Do you think love is something other than pouring out your life for the sake of the other and in so doing finding life? The "death" is in loosing your life in the outpouring for the sake of the beloved. But in dying, you find life because you take on the life of the beloved. This is exactly what Christ does for us: he gives us his life and we give him our life. The "death" of Christ is in offering his life for us. This exactly what is going on in the Trinity; Christ also pours out his life for the Father.

Protestants are so darn one dimensional in their thinking. This is why it is difficult to explain Catholicism.

you said STILL:
"Christ still pours himself out for the life of the world"

pouring out is often a metaphor for death or dying
Is that what you mean?

Isaiah 53
Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

Philippians 2:17,
"Even if I am to be poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrificial offering of your faith,

2 Tim 4:16
For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand.
 
you said STILL:
"Christ still pours himself out for the life of the world"

pouring out is often a metaphor for death or dying
Is that what you mean?

Isaiah 53
Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

Philippians 2:17,
"Even if I am to be poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrificial offering of your faith,

2 Tim 4:16
For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand.
Sigh....

Again, you are getting caught up in the concept of death having to be physical.

Christ died physically once. Physical death is over for Christ. Death, however isn't just physical.

The essence of death is outpouring. Physical death is one way in which this can be expressed; it isn't the only way.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
That is correct. I forgot that part. Very good!

When the body, blood, soul and divinity are received Christ is "immolated" under the sign of bread and wine. But this "immolation" is not earthy; that is, it does not involve a physical death. It is, nevertheless a real and true immolation.
Christ died once; not continually immolated in any other manner whether earthy, spiritually, or heavenly. Nowhere taught by scripture, Jesus, nor his apostles.
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
Sigh....

Again, you are getting caught up in the concept of death having to be physical.

Christ died physically once. Physical death is over for Christ. Death, however isn't just physical.

The essence of death is outpouring. Physical death is one way in which this can be expressed; it isn't the only way.
Christ died physically once.
We all agree:

so how many times or ways is Christ dying a non-physicals death?
IOW is Christ constantly dying a non-physical death?
 

mica

Well-known member
I will talk to you after the ice caps melt in the next 12 years because we didn't spend 90 Trillion dollars for AOC's Green New Disaster program---woops, I meant "Green New Deal." Once the ice caps melt maybe there will be some ocean front property available.
no need to wait for that, mine is available now. for a short period of time...
 
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