What is the Gospel according to Mormons?

​

Revelation 20:6
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

​


Richard7 the benefits of waking up early organgrinder.

​

​



​

​

 
organgrinder said:
Mesenja copied and wrote:


The Bible doesn’t make a case for penal substitutionary atonement.

Mesenja then opined: Now I'll tell you the reason why. In the New Testament, Christ is called the Passover lamb (John 1:29) The Jews marked their doors with the blood of the Passover lamb as a sign that they were part of the Chosen People. If the lamb had become sin, it would have been unclean; the Israelites definitely would not have eaten the lamb as they were instructed to do in Exodus 12:6.

You have no conception of the Passover Lamb and what it meant. The lamb, spotless (i.e. sinless) had its blood shed for the people so the avenging angel did not kill the first born. The lamb is a type of Christ. The lamb represented the Messiah who would die for the people, take their sins and make them right with God. Research the ceremonies and see for yourself.

Isaiah 53 in part says this which you dismissed out of hand.
PC Study Bible Data
Isa 53:4-6

Surely He has borne our griefs

And carried our sorrows;

Yet we esteemed Him stricken,

Smitten by God, and afflicted.

5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,

He was bruised for our iniquities;

The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,

And by His stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray;

We have turned, every one, to his own way;

And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

The word iniquity means thus:

OT:5771 ‎`avon (aw-vone'); or `avown (2 Kings 7:9; Ps 51:5 [OT:7]) (aw-vone'); from OT:5753; perversity, i.e. (moral) evil:

KJV - fault, iniquity, mischief, punishment (of iniquity), sin.

OT:5771
±Awon may refer to "the guilt of iniquity," as in Ezek 36:31: "Then shall ye remember your own evil ways... and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations" (cf. Ezek 9:9). The word may also refer to "punishment for iniquity": "And Saul sware to her by the Lord, saying, As the Lord liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing" 1 Sam 28:10. In Ex 28:38, ±awon is used as the object of natsa± ("to bear, carry away, forgive"), to suggest bearing the punishment for the "iniquity" of others. In Isa 53:11, we are told that the servant of Yahweh bears the consequences of the "iniquities" of sinful mankind, including Israel.

(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)

And then see what Paul wrote to the Corinthians:


2 Cor 5:18-21(NKJV)

Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

This is called the Great Exchange also known as substitutionary atonement.

Jesus died in our place and took all of the sins of each of us upon Himself-- past, present and future-- . He became sin and in exchange we received the righteousness of God. The Father views us through the blood of Jesus. Positionally we are holy and righteous and perfect in God's sight. In practice we sin, yet have forgiveness when we call upon the Lord and ask for it. It is by grace and grace alone and not by works. Nothing we have done or can do can ever earn or merit it. It is by God's grace.

It is by the sacrifice of Jesus that we now have a restored relationship with the Father that was broken by Adam's sin in the Garden.

The Good News of the Gospel is that that relationship is restored-- something not a single one of you Mormons mentioned nor understood. It is restored by Jesus coming to earth, dying for our sins (Isaiah 53) and the following in Isaiah 61 when Jesus inaugurated His ministry:


The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,
Because the Lord has anointed Me
To preach good tidings (GOSPEL) to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord
(Isaiah 61:1-2 NKJV)

He then rose to break the devil's power, ascended to heaven to sent the Holy Spirit to teach us how have that relationship with the Father where we can now enter spiritually into the holy of holies. And He is coming back again in power with the saints to establish His earthly reign. We simply repent of our sins, ask forgiveness for them, allow Jesus to sit on the throne of our life and then walk with Him the rest of our days by faith in a newfound relationship with the creator of the universe who lives within the believer.

That is the gospel- powerful and yet simple.​
Click to expand...

Paul in 2 Corinthians 5:21 is using the Greek word ἁμαρτία as a parallel to the Hebrew word חַטָּאָת, which is often used to mean “a sin offering.” Through the atonement of Christ the sacrificial lamb, God reconciled humanity to himself through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ. In the second part of the verse, when he speaks of our becoming the righteousness of God he uses the verb γίνομαι, while often having the primary meaning of “to become,” it also has other meanings such as “to arise, to be fulfilled, to partake,” and so on. We become like or partake of the quality of God’s righteousness through Christ's atonement.
​
2 Corinthians 5:21
Complete Jewish Bible

21 God made this sinless man be a sin offering on our behalf, so that in union with him we might fully share in God’s righteousness.”​
 
Last edited:
Mesenja said:
Paul in 2 Corinthians 5:21 is using the Greek word ἁμαρτία as a parallel to the Hebrew word חַטָּאָת, which is often used to mean “a sin offering.” Through the atonement of Christ the sacrificial lamb, God reconciled humanity to himself through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ. In the second part of the verse, when he speaks of our becoming the righteousness of God he uses the verb γίνομαι, while often having the primary meaning of “to become,” it also has other meanings such as “to arise, to be fulfilled, to partake,” and so on. We become like or partake of the quality of God’s righteousness through Christ's atonement.
​
2 Corinthians 5:21
Complete Jewish Bible

21 God made this sinless man be a sin offering on our behalf, so that in union with him we might fully share in God’s righteousness.”​
Click to expand...
Using this particular version can lead to deception. The Old testament was a paraphrase. I did a quick Internet search. This is the summation.

PC Study Bible Data
What is the complete Jewish Bible (CJB)?

The Complete Jewish Bible Old Testament is a paraphrase of the 1917 Jewish Publication Society version of the Tanakh (also known as the Masoretic Text ). The New Testament is an original translation from the ancient Greek. The CJB is a free translation, with Yiddish and modern Jewish cultural expressions.

From the CJB introduction by author David Stern:

“…I set out in 1977 to write a Messianic Jewish commentary on the New Testament. I wanted to produce a single book that would deal with all the “Jewish issues” I could think of in connection with the New Testament—questions Jews have about Yeshua, the New Testament, and Christianity; questions Christians have about Judaism and the Jewish roots of their own faith; and questions we Messianic Jews have about our own identity and role in light of two thousand years of separation and conflict between the Church and the Jews. But I quickly discovered that much of what I was writing consisted of arguments with the translator of the English version I was using; they took the form, “Our English version says such-and-such, but what it really means is so-and-so”. The idea came to me to attempt my own translation of the New Testament from the ancient Greek original; then obviously I would have a version I agreed with, so I could focus exclusively on the subject matter. I did a sample and was pleased with it. Thus was born the Jewish New Testament (JNT), which was published in 1989.

A single translator. No translation committee to check and verify. This leads to a slanted view of what the author wants.. and he got exactly that.

Jesus became more than a sin offering. He became sin itself. He took our sins past, present and future upon Himself. In turn he gave us His righteousness so that our relationship with the Father was restored and the Father sees us and holy and righteous.

The Greek interlinear agrees with what every actual translation of 2 Corinthians 5:21 says and the interpretation given.

The gospel (Good News/ Glad Tidings) is all about restoring the relationship to God. It comes by grace through faith alone, not of works. (Ephesians 2:8-9.) A believer is then call to good works after salvation. Works are not a prerequisite for salvation unlike your LDS scripture that trumpets "after all we can do" (grace is then given). The Mormon version of the gospel is not the gospel. In fact, did you know God wrote the gospel in the heavenly bodies long before it was ever put to pen and paper? The constellation starting with Virgo (a virgin will conceive and bear a child) then ends with Leo the Lion of Jesis coming back in glory and power. In between we see the struggle with sin and the death and rising of the Messiah.

A good book for you to investigate is "Looking UP" by Troy Brewer. It is used in seminaries.

The gospel God wrote in the heavenlies is the same and Jesus, Peter and Paul preached and the biblical church preaches today. It has not changed.
 
Last edited:
organgrinder said:
Jesus became more than a sin offering. He became sin itself. He took our sins past, present and future upon Himself. In turn he gave us His righteousness so that our relationship with the Father was restored and the Father sees us and holy and righteous.
Click to expand...

The Atonement is more than a transactional exchange or propitiation in order to placate or appease God. It is an expiation that implies a cleansing and removal of sin.

organgrinder said:
The Greek interlinear agrees with what every actual translation of 2 Corinthians 5:21 says and the interpretation given.
Click to expand...

The Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament translates it as sin-offering for us.

organgrinder said:
The gospel (Good News/ Glad Tidings) is all about restoring the relationship to God. It comes by grace through faith alone, not of works. (Ephesians 2:8-9.) A believer is then call to good works after salvation. Works are not a prerequisite for salvation unlike your LDS scripture that trumpets "after all we can do" (grace is then given).
Click to expand...

I agree with you that the good news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is that through the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ we can become clean from sin and worthy to live with our Heavenly Father after this life. Where I part ways with you is the doctrine of salvation by faith alone. I've already given my analysis of Ephesians 2:8-10 (see #331) and demonstrated that in the eleven cases of conversion recorded in the book of the Acts of the Apostles it was by more than faith alone (see #245) so I won't repeat myself here.

My formula for salvation is belief in Jesus as Messiah + repentance + obedience in keeping covenants = faith = salvation. I have never subscribed to the formula faith+ works =salvation nor has our Church ever taught this. You have also misunderstood the meaning of 2 Nephi 25:23. I have already answered this false claim previously made by Janice Bower where I redirected her to the Two Mormon Guys blog post After All We Can Do” Doesn’t Mean What You Think It Means where it specifically addressed this. (see #610) I also think that the YouTube video His Grace Is Sufficient|Brad Wilcox would also be helpful for your understanding of how we view the dynamics between grace and works..​


organgrinder said:
The Mormon version of the gospel is not the gospel. In fact, did you know God wrote the gospel in the heavenly bodies long before it was ever put to pen and paper? The constellation starting with Virgo (a virgin will conceive and bear a child) then ends with Leo the Lion of Jesis coming back in glory and power. In between we see the struggle with sin and the death and rising of the Messiah.
Click to expand...

Am I now to understand that Christianity now embraces astrology?

organgrinder said:
The gospel God wrote in the heavenlies is the same and Jesus, Peter and Paul preached and the biblical church preaches today. It has not changed.
Click to expand...

This doesn't support in any way your doctrinal position of what you think the gospel is.
 
Last edited:
organgrinder said:
Mesenja copied and wrote:


The Bible doesn’t make a case for penal substitutionary atonement.

Mesenja then opined: Now I'll tell you the reason why. In the New Testament, Christ is called the Passover lamb (John 1:29) The Jews marked their doors with the blood of the Passover lamb as a sign that they were part of the Chosen People. If the lamb had become sin, it would have been unclean; the Israelites definitely would not have eaten the lamb as they were instructed to do in Exodus 12:6.

You have no conception of the Passover Lamb and what it meant. The lamb, spotless (i.e. sinless) had its blood shed for the people so the avenging angel did not kill the first born. The lamb is a type of Christ. The lamb represented the Messiah who would die for the people, take their sins and make them right with God. Research the ceremonies and see for yourself.

Isaiah 53 in part says this which you dismissed out of hand.
PC Study Bible Data
Isa 53:4-6

Surely He has borne our griefs

And carried our sorrows;

Yet we esteemed Him stricken,

Smitten by God, and afflicted.

5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,

He was bruised for our iniquities;

The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,

And by His stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray;

We have turned, every one, to his own way;

And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

The word iniquity means thus:

OT:5771 ‎`avon (aw-vone'); or `avown (2 Kings 7:9; Ps 51:5 [OT:7]) (aw-vone'); from OT:5753; perversity, i.e. (moral) evil:

KJV - fault, iniquity, mischief, punishment (of iniquity), sin.

OT:5771
±Awon may refer to "the guilt of iniquity," as in Ezek 36:31: "Then shall ye remember your own evil ways... and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations" (cf. Ezek 9:9). The word may also refer to "punishment for iniquity": "And Saul sware to her by the Lord, saying, As the Lord liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing" 1 Sam 28:10. In Ex 28:38, ±awon is used as the object of natsa± ("to bear, carry away, forgive"), to suggest bearing the punishment for the "iniquity" of others. In Isa 53:11, we are told that the servant of Yahweh bears the consequences of the "iniquities" of sinful mankind, including Israel.

(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)

And then see what Paul wrote to the Corinthians:


2 Cor 5:18-21(NKJV)

Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

This is called the Great Exchange also known as substitutionary atonement.

Jesus died in our place and took all of the sins of each of us upon Himself-- past, present and future-- . He became sin and in exchange we received the righteousness of God. The Father views us through the blood of Jesus. Positionally we are holy and righteous and perfect in God's sight. In practice we sin, yet have forgiveness when we call upon the Lord and ask for it. It is by grace and grace alone and not by works. Nothing we have done or can do can ever earn or merit it. It is by God's grace.

It is by the sacrifice of Jesus that we now have a restored relationship with the Father that was broken by Adam's sin in the Garden.

The Good News of the Gospel is that that relationship is restored-- something not a single one of you Mormons mentioned nor understood. It is restored by Jesus coming to earth, dying for our sins (Isaiah 53) and the following in Isaiah 61 when Jesus inaugurated His ministry:


The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,
Because the Lord has anointed Me
To preach good tidings (GOSPEL) to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord
(Isaiah 61:1-2 NKJV)

He then rose to break the devil's power, ascended to heaven to sent the Holy Spirit to teach us how have that relationship with the Father where we can now enter spiritually into the holy of holies. And He is coming back again in power with the saints to establish His earthly reign. We simply repent of our sins, ask forgiveness for them, allow Jesus to sit on the throne of our life and then walk with Him the rest of our days by faith in a newfound relationship with the creator of the universe who lives within the believer.

That is the gospel- powerful and yet simple.
Click to expand...
Jw, Sda, Lds Rome all of them will deny the penal substitution of Jesus, as they hold to another Gospel!
 
Mesenja said:
The Atonement is more than a transactional exchange or propitiation in order to placate or appease God. It is an expiation that implies a cleansing and removal of sin.



The Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament translates it as sin-offering for us.



I agree with you that the good news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is that through the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ we can become clean from sin and worthy to live with our Heavenly Father after this life. Where I part ways with you is the doctrine of salvation by faith alone. I've already given my analysis of Ephesians 2:8-10 (see #331) and demonstrated that in the eleven cases of conversion recorded in the book of the Acts of the Apostles it was by more than faith alone (see #245) so I won't repeat myself here.

My formula for salvation is belief in Jesus as Messiah + repentance + obedience in keeping covenants = faith = salvation. I have never subscribed to the formula faith+ works =salvation nor has our Church ever taught this. You have also misunderstood the meaning of 2 Nephi 25:23. I have already answered this false claim previously made by Janice Bower where I redirected her to the Two Mormon Guys blog post After All We Can Do” Doesn’t Mean What You Think It Means where it specifically addressed this. (see #610) I also think that the YouTube video His Grace Is Sufficient|Brad Wilcox would also be helpful for your understanding of how we view the dynamics between grace and works..​




Am I now to understand that Christianity now embraces astrology?



This doesn't support in any way your doctrinal position of what you think the gospel is.
Click to expand...
Bottom line is that the LDS gospel differs from the Christian gospel. and we have addressed the language of 2 Nephi. Basic english. Not too difficult to understand except for LDS. God extends his grace to us. we respond to that grace by faith and faith alone. You fail to understand the atonement of Jesus and the righteousness He gives each of us. Unearned. By grace.I have clearly explained the Gospel. You don't accept it. That would be on you.

The Bible does not embrace astrology. It embraces astronomy. What does Psalm 19 say? Astrology is different even though it utilizes the constellations which God made. Satan corrupts everything he can.

The complete Jesis Bible apparently is the only one I have seen that give you the reading you desire. The others don't.
 
Last edited:
Bottom line organgrinder is that you haven’t directly answered any of the specific points I brought up. It takes more than a response of nyah nyah you’re wrong.

​

 
Last edited:
What Isaiah 53:4 says is that according to our perception despite the fact Christ bears our griefs and sorrows “we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted.”

Another key verse is Isaiah 53:5 which tells us “by His stripes we are healed,” not “by His stripes the Father is appeased.”
 
Last edited:
organgrinder said:
Bottom line is that the LDS gospel differs from the Christian gospel. and we have addressed the language of 2 Nephi. Basic english. Not too difficult to understand except for LDS. God extends his grace to us. we respond to that grace by faith and faith alone. You fail to understand the atonement of Jesus and the righteousness He gives each of us. Unearned. By grace.I have clearly explained the Gospel. You don't accept it. That would be on you.

The Bible does not embrace astrology. It embraces astronomy. What does Psalm 19 say? Astrology is different even though it utilizes the constellations which God made. Satan corrupts everything he can.

The complete Jesis Bible apparently is the only one I have seen that give you the reading you desire. The others don't.
Click to expand...


No we don’t have any difficulty in knowing the meaning of 2nd Nephi 25:30.

Yes I reject the doctrine of Penal Substitutionary Atonement and salvation by faith alone as it is not part of the gospel message.

Finally you weren’t talking about astronomy. It was astrology.
 
organgrinder said:
Here is the original post you quoted:

I forgot, once saved always saved?...Right?

Obviously you didn't comprehend what was written did you? It had nothing to do with "once saved always saved" did it. You attempted to put words in my mouth I didn't say, Ralf. Just another attempt to divert the conversation away from the topic of this thread being "what is the gospel according to Mormons?"

Here are what the scriptures say, Ralf.

Read Romans 9, 10 and 11 and then this scripture in Romans 11:6 should make sense to you.
Click to expand...
Really, says who? Since you only have the Bible you do stumble for lack of the restoration of all...

Romans 9:11 not of works, but of him that calleth​

Amazingly you do not believe in the pre-existence even thought its in the Bible... Jacob and Esau were called before coming to earth,
Did not Paul explain foreordination, look up the word ordained.... they did not achieve birthrights because of works, but more pertaining to Christ who calleth and ordains prior to coming to this earth...
"Two nations are in thy womb, and two peoples shall be separated from thy bowels; And the one people shall be stronger than the other people; And the elder shall serve the younger" Genesis... 25:23

All of this is part of the Patriarchal order of the Priesthood and Birthrights... both Jacob and Esau were called before they were born. All who are preordained before coming to this earth earned it in the pre-existence...

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,












organgrinder said:
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace.* But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

Now let's see what the apostle John wrote in Revelation.

And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,* and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.* 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

(Rev. 20:12-15 NKJV)

You will notice this judgment follows the Millennial reign. Look what the scriptures say here:

Rev 20:4-6
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.
NKJV

The dead small and great are being judged out of the BOOKS. That is plural. There is another book, the Book of Life. Those being resurrected after the Millennial reign are being judged out of the BOOKS and not the Book of Life.

You want to be part of that first resurrection, Ralf. You don't want to be judged by your works because it isn't by works that you are saved from spiritual death. It is by grace through faith and only by that.
Click to expand...
The Morning of the First Resurrection: This resurrection began with Christ’s Resurrection and will continue in and through the Millennium. This resurrection is reserved for those who have lived righteously. It is reserved for those who are destined to be heirs of the celestial kingdom. LDS.org

And again since you only have the Bible you misunderstand the Books, plural... let me help...

D&C 128:7
 7 You will discover in this quotation that the books were opened; and another book was opened, which was the book of life; but the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works; consequently, the books spoken of must be the books which contained the record of their works, and refer to the records which are kept on the earth. And the book which was the book of life is the record which is kept in heaven; the principle agreeing precisely with the doctrine which is commanded you in the revelation contained in the letter which I wrote to you previous to my leaving my place—that in all your recordings it may be recorded in heaven.

Hel 10:
For his diligence in carrying out the Lord's errand, Nephi, son of Helaman, was blessed with great power.

"Behold," the Lord said, "I give unto you power, that whatsoever ye shall seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven; and thus shall ye have power among this people."
 
organgrinder said:
A disciple can share the gospel. You send door-to-door missionaries (salesmen) supposedly he preaching the Gospel you guys can't explain. You want folks to buy into something neither of you are willing to articulate and give a reason for why it is good news and what it means. You guys are salesmen for something you can't explain. Is that wonderful or what?
Click to expand...

Is it wonderful that you can’t differentiate between a disciple of Jesus Christ and a used car salesman? No. Or maybe it’s the fact that you find it wonderful you don’t know the difference between a missionary and a door to door salesman. The answer is still no. I wonder if it’s the fact that you are bearing false witness against us. Once again the answer is no.
 
organgrinder said:
That's it? Why would anyone care? What was the point? What are the ramifications? Your answer is what I am talking about. You make a statement and don't say why it is important or what it means. It shouldn't be that hard, yet it is.
Click to expand...

Isn’t that enough? That’s the reason that the gospel of Jesus Christ is called the good news or did they teach you something different. Yes and I could also explain to you what the Atonement is and The Fall however I’m not as forthcoming to someone who only wants to debate me in order to gain a sense of self satisfaction in trying to prove my ignorance.
 
Mesenja said:
Isn’t that enough? That’s the reason that the gospel of Jesus Christ is called the good news or did they teach you something different. Yes and I could also explain to you what the Atonement is and The Fall however I’m not as forthcoming to someone who only wants to debate me in order to gain a sense of self satisfaction in trying to prove my ignorance.
Click to expand...
And yet you still won't explain what it means and how it impacts folks. As I said before, the gospel is about a restored intimate relationship with God. You guys have never mentioned that even one time. That tells me you are ignorant of the gospel Jesus, Peter and Paul and the early disciples preached. You might preach a Mormon gospel which appears to be convoluted and complicated, but you and the missionaries don't preach the saving gospel of Jesus.
 
organgrinder said:
And yet you still won't explain what it means and how it impacts folks. As I said before, the gospel is about a restored intimate relationship with God. You guys have never mentioned that even one time. That tells me you are ignorant of the gospel Jesus, Peter and Paul and the early disciples preached. You might preach a Mormon gospel which appears to be convoluted and complicated, but you and the missionaries don't preach the saving gospel of Jesus.
Click to expand...

At this point I don’t care what you think. The Gospel of Jesus Christ that we teach is the same one that was taught by the New Testament apostles.
 
Of course you don't care. Why would you? You gospel is different. You Jesus is different, even according to your own authorities.

And using Mounce's Interlinear gives you a different understanding of 2 Corinthians 5:21. The word transliterated as harmatian is used twice. Once as "sin" and the other as "sin offering". It is the same word. However, translating the word as "sin offering" does no give the full force of what Jesus actually did. He became sin. He became our substitute and incurred God's wrath. He paid our penalty that we deserved. He in turn gave us His righteousness which we didn't deserve.

Translating the word sin offering make it appear as if the sacrifice was just a covering of sin and a temporary hiding of sins as per the Old Testament. Jesus became sin itself, not just an offering, though he did offer Himself.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top