What is the salvific effect of the Cross?

[Atemi]

The individual having brought them into eternal life is Christ.

Thus why Jesus is the SAVIOR. That is what He does.

As a Catholic, I witnessed that that this thought never occurs to Roman Catholics. They provide a lot of lip service about Jesus being Savior, but almost none of them believe Jesus actually saved them....or that He saves anyone else.

It is always something else that actually saved: whether works, merit, religiosity, ritualism, or just plain meaning well.

 

[Grace]

He is trying to prove that Jesus was speaking symbolically at the Last Supper concerning the bread and wine.

Well, Jesus had not yet been crucified at the last supper. And no one was actually eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Jesus, nor does any Scripture indicate that. Those in John 6 who took Jesus literally walked away. In case you didn't notice.

 

[Bonnie]

always justified despite having sins?

We all have sins.

yes, he obtained salvation by opening the gates of heaven.
but not all who are redeemed can enter heaven.

Please explain.

for to enter heaven is an individual process.

Jesus does save us as individuals, by grace through faith in HIM.

 

[ramcam2]

We all have sins.

when you have sin, are you still justified?

Please explain.

'opening the gates of heaven....'
before redemption, heaven was closed.
jesus descended to abode of the souls of the righteous, in abraham's bosom as the jews called it
theer he preach the good news to deliver and welcome them in the kingdom of heaven.

'not all who are redeemed can enter heaven...'
it means redemption is universal but salvation is individual.

Jesus does save us as individuals, by grace through faith in HIM.

justification is by the grace of God. once we are justified, faith and good works matters.

 

[ramcam2]

I remember being taught this nasty lie when I was a Catholic.

The priests and nuns taught me that Jesus did not actually SAVE anyone. He merely "opened the gates of heaven" so sinners could earn Heaven through their "individual process."

So basically, we were taught that Jesus opened the doors so we could ultimately save ourselves.

What wicked false doctrine.

what you posted is not catholic doctrine but fake news

 

[Atemi]

I remember being taught this nasty lie when I was a Catholic.

The priests and nuns taught me that Jesus did not actually SAVE anyone. He merely "opened the gates of heaven" so sinners could earn Heaven through their "individual process."

So basically, we were taught that Jesus opened the doors so we could ultimately save ourselves.

What wicked false doctrine.

what you posted is not catholic doctrine but fake news

I just affirmed what you posted is exactly what the priests and nuns drilled into my head.

Glad to see you rush to deny it just as fast as you originally posted it! LOL.

 

[ramcam2]

I just affirmed what you posted is exactly what the priests and nuns drilled into my head.

Glad to see you rush to deny it just as fast as you originally posted it! LOL.

please copy-paste my words, thanks.

 

[Johan]

when you have sin, are you still justified?

Justification through faith by the blood of Christ means precisely that: we are justified before God despite being ungodly sinners. It is because of His righteousness, rather than our own, that we are justified.

'opening the gates of heaven....'
before redemption, heaven was closed.
jesus descended to abode of the souls of the righteous, in abraham's bosom as the jews called it

Says the Bible where?

theer he preach the good news to deliver and welcome them in the kingdom of heaven.

I guess you base this idea on a highly dubious reading of Peter's epistles.

'not all who are redeemed can enter heaven...'
it means redemption is universal but salvation is individual.

Why would Christ purchase those who will not be saved?

justification is by the grace of God. once we are justified, faith and good works matters.

Once we are justified, we are justified.

 

[Bonnie]

when you have sin, are you still justified?

What do you mean by "having sin"?

'opening the gates of heaven....'
before redemption, heaven was closed.

So, where were Moses amd Abraham, before redemption?

jesus descended to abode of the souls of the righteous, in abraham's bosom as the jews called it
theer he preach the good news to deliver and welcome them in the kingdom of heaven.

'not all who are redeemed can enter heaven...'

Please explain.

it means redemption is universal but salvation is individual.

If by this you mean Jesus bought redemption for all 100% of mankind, I would agree. But, those that reject that redemption will not be saved--is that what you mean?

justification is by the grace of God. once we are justified, faith and good works matters.

Faith and grace are 2 sides of the same coin. "For it is by grace you are saved, THROUGH faith--and this is not your own doing, but is the GIFT OF GOD--and NOT by works, so no one may boast"

Good works are the evidence of faith, that vindicate our faith to the world. They are done IN salvation, not FOR salvation. There is a difference--isn't there?