bluedog1us
Well-known member
In many places.
What is the salvific effect of the Cross?
- Thread starter 1Thess521
- Start date
Stella1000
Well-known member
So the effects of Jesus propitiatory death are only 'activated' by the acceptance of faith in Him, right?
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
Again, I don't understand what is so difficult here.
The Last Supper is the cross, Sacramentally. In other words, the Cross was present in Sacramental form.
God does not require a DeLorean with a Flux Capacitor to make future events present in the past, sir.
Amazing how God didn't have Him driving one at the time. It still would not make the LS the cross. Time travel is linear.
Still no proof for the false teachings of the RCC, other than you are showing one of the reasons why I left the RCC. It is not because RCs are humble.
RayneBeau
Well-known member
What the Roman Church of Catholicism teaches is that the Eucharist is an unbloody sacrifice in which Jesus Christ is actually immolated or offered as the victim. The term Host is derived from the Latin word for victim. Therefore the offering of the Host is the perpetuation of the sacrifice of Christ in an unbloody manner to make satisfaction for sins. Yet the Bible clearly states succinctly that there is no forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood:
"Without shedding of blood is no remission." Hebrews 9:22
"For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls" for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul." (Leviticus 17:11)
So what is really being offered to God in a sacrificial Roman Catholic Mass?
Is it bread and wine that is being offered to God, or is it Jesus Christ that is being offered to God?
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Nondenom40
Well-known member
And while they are at it they can explain how the risen Christ got on the cross in the first place; ccc 1392.
RayneBeau
Well-known member
Yeah!!! Furthermore, in Holy Scripture, we NEVER find mention of bread or wine as a sacrifice. And, at the Last Supper, the Lord took bread and wine at a table, not on an ALTAR. In the Bible, sacrifices were made on an altar, and God commanded the Jews that there was to be only one altar. Certainly Jesus' Jewish disciples knew this. As God, Jesus would not contradict Himself. Tables are for eathing, altars are for sacrificing.
A side note, just a bit off topic: Some may have seen this monstrosity of an 'altar' inside the newest huge basicilica in Los Angeles, California, dedicated to [Roman Catholic] Mary. It is said that the "altar" is big enough to slaughter 2 large cows on it.
bluedog1us
Well-known member
What makes it so difficult is the false teaching of romanism. It really is simple. But romanists "choke on a gnat and swallow a camel".
dingoling.
Well-known member
Why would we offer bread and wine, the fruit of the ground, to God? Cain made that same mistake.
Genesis 4:3-5, "In the course of time Cain brought to the Lord an offering of the fruit of the ground, and Abel for his part brought of the firstlings of his flock, their fat portions. And the Lord had regard for Abel and his offering, but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell."
1Thess521
Well-known member
we don't need to offer any sacrifices to God.
the sacrificial system is done:
WE DO NOT OFFER SACRIFICES TO GOD.
You have misrepresented our views AGAIN
see Strawman argument
dingoling.
Well-known member
Your views? Cain had a view too, but it was wrong.
1Thess521
Well-known member
my views??
Cain was prior to the the New Covenant
Are YOU seriously claiming we are to offer sacrifices to God under the New Covenant?
dingoling.
Well-known member
Yes that is what Jesus was doing at the Last Supper with his disciples, instituting the new sacrifice - his sacrifice that he was going to accomplish on the cross. That is what we do at the Mass. Offer up to God the sacrifice that Jesus accomplished on the cross for us - the same sacrifice in an unbloody manor.
1Thess521
Well-known member
WE do NOT offer up to God any sacrifice!!!
Bonnie
Super Member
That is false. The Eucharist is sacramental, not sacrificial. Jesus offered Himself ONCE on Calvary's cross. He died ONCE, having made purgation for sins, and now sits at the right hand of the Father. His one-time sacrifice of Himself on the cross covers everyone from all ages--past, present, and future.
Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 10:1-18 - English Standard Version
Christ's Sacrifice Once for All - For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be...
Bonnie
Super Member
Of course not! Jesus died ONCE for ALL of us for ALL time. No need to repeat it at the Lord's Supper. It is sacramental, not sacrificial.
dingoling.
Well-known member
You don't but we do. We offer up the sacrifice of Jesus did on the cross to God - it is the acceptable sacrifice.
dingoling.
Well-known member
Yes it is a single sacrifice for sins. That is what we believe.That is false. The Eucharist is sacramental, not sacrificial. Jesus offered Himself ONCE on Calvary's cross. He died ONCE, having made purgation for sins, and now sits at the right hand of the Father. His one-time sacrifice of Himself on the cross covers everyone from all ages--past, present, and future.
Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 10:1-18 - English Standard Version
Christ's Sacrifice Once for All - For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be...www.biblegateway.com
Bonnie
Super Member
But Catholicism makes it a sacrifice. They keep resacrificing Jesus in their Mass. Jesus died ONCE. Jesus offered a single sacrifice of Himself for the sins of the whole world.
No, but then, what Catholics need to do is actually believe the clear scriptural witness--that Jesus died ONCE for ALL time, a single sacrifice, never to be repeated.
From Hebrews 10:
Why won't you believe this clear Scriptural witness? I know--what your popes and magisterium teach is more important to Catholics than what the Bible actually says.
A single sacrifice for ALL time. Not over and over and over again in the Eucharist.
dingoling.
Well-known member
It is the same sacrifice. That is what Jesus said, "Drink from it, all of you; for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."
The contents of the cup, the wine, is his blood of the covenant that is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.