What is the salvific effect of the Cross?

Yes, and we wonder in what way is scripture alone their final/sole authority. It is a mystery, I guess.
there is no mystery:
clearly stated
here ya go


From Catholic.com
the principle of sola scriptura ("Scripture alone"), according to the sharpest Protestant scholars, means that the Bible is the ultimate authority—above councils and popes and any tradition—but not that no commentary or tradition may be cited or utilized

from New Advent
"The [first] objective [or formal] principle proclaims the canonical Scriptures, especially the New Testament, to be the only infallible source and rule of faith and practice (not the only source)"
" Protestantism, however, by no means despises or rejects church authority as such, but only subordinates it to, and measures its value by, the Bible,"

from James White:
First of all, it is not a claim that the Bible contains all knowledge. The Bible is not exhaustive in every detail. John 21:25 speaks to the fact that there are many things that Jesus said and did that are not recorded in John, or in fact in any book in the world because the whole books of the world could not contain it. But the Bible does not have to be exhaustive to function as the sole rule of faith for the Church. We do not need to know the color of Thomas’ eyes. We do not need to know the menu of each meal of the Apostolic band for the Scriptures to function as the sole rule of faith for the Church.

Secondly, it is not a denial of the Church’s authority to teach God’s truth. I Timothy 3:15 describes the Church as “the pillar and foundation of the truth.” The truth is in Jesus Christ and in His Word. The Church teaches truth and calls men to Christ and, in so doing, functions as the pillar and foundation thereof. The Church does not add revelation or rule over Scripture. The Church being the bride of Christ, listens to the Word of Christ, which is found in God-breathed Scripture.

Thirdly, it is not a denial that God’s Word has been spoken. Apostolic preaching was authoritative in and of itself. Yet, the Apostles proved their message from Scripture, as we see in Acts 17:2, and 18:28, and John commended those in Ephesus for testing those who claimed to be Apostles, Revelation 2:2. The Apostles were not afraid to demonstrate the consistency between their teaching and the Old Testament.

And, finally, sola scriptura is not a denial of the role of the Holy Spirit in guiding and enlightening the Church.
 
Yes, and we wonder in what way is scripture alone their final/sole authority. It is a mystery, I guess.
there is no mystery:
clearly stated
here ya go

from https://www.reformandamin.org/
The heart of the battle over Sola Scriptura is a battle over the issue of authority. Who has the right to tell people what to believe and what to do? If the Bible is inspired by God, and thereby inerrant, then it is also authoritative. In other words, the revealed commands of God in Scripture are binding on the believer. When Scripture speaks, God speaks. However, during the medieval period, the Catholic Church raised “tradition” to a place of equal authority with Scripture.

from Zondervan Academic:
Sola Scriptura declares that only Scripture is our inerrant, sufficient, and final authority for the church, because it is God breathed and divinely inspired (2 Timothy 3:16). In the sixteenth century, this directly contradicted the teachings of the Catholic Church, which elevated tradition and the Pope and magisterium’s authority to the level of Scripture itself.

from crosswalk
God's word has the highest authority for all of life. This does not mean that the Bible is clear on every issue or question we have—the Bible has little to say on how to speak Spanish or the scientific intricacies of rocket science. However, Sola Scriptura means that the Bible is the infallible Word of God, and takes supreme authority over our lives in every area it speaks to. This means that reason, logic, tradition, and experience and valid, but ultimately shall be submitted under scripture as our greatest authority

from Bible info
the Bible alone is the supreme authority for what Christians should believe and practice

etc etc etc
 
Yes, and we wonder in what way is scripture alone their final/sole authority. It is a mystery, I guess.
no mystery
here ya go:

Better far that I should read with certainty and persuasion of its truth the Holy Scripture, placed on the highest (even the heavenly) pinnacle of authority, and should, without questioning the trustworthiness of its statements, learn from it that men have been either, commended, or corrected, or condemned, than that, through fear of believing that by men, who, though of most praiseworthy excellence, were no more than men, actions deserving rebuke might sometimes be done, I should admit suspicions affecting the trustworthiness of the whole “oracles of God.”
-Augustine, Letters of St. Augustine, Letter 82.2.5

This Mediator [Jesus Christ], having spoken what He judged sufficient first by the prophets, then by His own lips, and afterwards by the apostles, has besides produced the Scripture which is called canonical, which has paramount authority, and to which we yield assent in all matters of which we ought not to be ignorant, and yet cannot know of ourselves.
-St. Augustine, quoted from his City of God, book XI, Chapter 3,

St. Augustine (A.D. 354–430)
De unitate ecclesiae, 10
“Neither dare one agree with catholic bishops if by chance they err in anything, but the result that their opinion is against the canonical Scriptures of God.”

Irenaeus (ca. 150)
Against Heresies 3.1.1
“We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith.”

Clement of Alexandria (d. 215)
The Stromata, 7:16
“But those who are ready to toil in the most excellent pursuits, will not desist from the search after truth, till they get the demonstration from the Scriptures themselves.”

Gregory of Nyssa (d. ca. 395)
On the Holy Trinity NPNF, p. 327
“Let the inspired Scriptures then be our umpire, and the vote of truth will be given to those whose dogmas are found to agree with the Divine words.”

Athanasius (c. 296–373)
Against the Heathen, 1:3
“The holy and inspired Scriptures are fully sufficient for the proclamation of the truth.”
<
The Scriptures being “fully sufficient,” is simply a seed form of sola Scriptura.>

Basil the Great (ca. 329–379)
On the Holy Spirit, 7.16
“We are not content simply because this is the tradition of the Fathers. What is important is that the Fathers followed the meaning of the Scripture.”


Ambrose (A.D. 340–397)
On the Duties of the Clergy, 1:23:102
For how can we adopt those things which we do not find in the holy Scriptures?”

Report
 
Secondly, it is not a denial of the Church’s authority to teach God’s truth. I Timothy 3:15 describes the Church as “the pillar and foundation of the truth.” The truth is in Jesus Christ and in His Word. The Church teaches truth and calls men to Christ and, in so doing, functions as the pillar and foundation thereof. The Church does not add revelation or rule over Scripture. The Church being the bride of Christ, listens to the Word of Christ, which is found in God-breathed Scripture.

...

And, finally, sola scriptura is not a denial of the role of the Holy Spirit in guiding and enlightening the Church.
That's interesting, because it seems to me that is exactly what Protestants claim. They deny, in my opinion, the Church's authority to teach by claiming the authority to interpret for themselves. They deny, in my opinion, the role of the Holy Spirit to guide and enlighten the Church, when they state that the Church, in some "unknown year" (without proof), fell into error.
 
That's interesting, because it seems to me that is exactly what Protestants claim. They deny, in my opinion, the Church's authority to teach by claiming the authority to interpret for themselves.
When the Catholic Church contradicts the whole council of Scripture, then their error should be called out.

They deny, in my opinion, the role of the Holy Spirit to guide and enlighten the Church, when they state that the Church, in some "unknown year" (without proof), fell into error.
you assume that Church only means the Catholic Church (not even the Greek Orthodox Church)
 
still waiting ding:

I started around post 554 asking these questions and still waiting pages later for Ding to answer them:

You don't even clearly state your beliefs, so therefore no verses at all to support them. I have asked but you keep running away and do not stand up and clearly state:

a. What saves us?????
b. Give the scriptural supports for said beliefs????
c. Whose righteousness??????

WAITING, WAITING, WAITING
 
still waiting ding:

I started around post 554 asking these questions and still waiting pages later for Ding to answer them:

You don't even clearly state your beliefs, so therefore no verses at all to support them. I have asked but you keep running away and do not stand up and clearly state:

a. What saves us?????
b. Give the scriptural supports for said beliefs????
c. Whose righteousness??????

WAITING, WAITING, WAITING
Ding are the questions too hard, you say you answer questions. I have been waiting for days.
 
Where? The bible says belief is a gift. You show me yours i'll show you mine.
Jesus tells the Jews that they should labor for the food which endures into eternal life (John6: 27). When they asked what they must do (v28), to be doing the works of God, Jesus says that believing in Him is the work of God that they must do (v29)
It is very explicit that Jesus says the act of believing is work. The context clearly shows that it is a work that God does through man and with man’s cooperation. The work of God being spoken here is believing in Jesus Christ, hence a work done by man by the grace of God.

your turn...
 
Jesus tells the Jews that they should labor for the food which endures into eternal life (John6: 27). When they asked what they must do (v28), to be doing the works of God, Jesus says that believing in Him is the work of God that they must do (v29)
It is very explicit that Jesus says the act of believing is work. The context clearly shows that it is a work that God does through man and with man’s cooperation. The work of God being spoken here is believing in Jesus Christ, hence a work done by man by the grace of God.

your turn...
Believing is a gift; Phil 1:29

Robertson;

The work of God that ye believe (το εργον του θεου ινα πιστευητε). In 1Th 1:3 Paul speaks of "your work of faith" (υμων του εργου της πιστεως). So here Jesus terms belief in him as the work of God. These Jews were thinking of various deeds of the Pharisaic type and rules. Jesus turns their minds to the central fact. "This simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works"

Salvation is a free gift, repentance is a gift, the ransom is paid for by Jesus. Jesus is just using terms the jews would recognize. Want to talk about works? Okay, just believe. Course catholics don't even apply this because they add to what Jesus said.
 
Believing is a gift; Phil 1:29

Robertson;

The work of God that ye believe (το εργον του θεου ινα πιστευητε). In 1Th 1:3 Paul speaks of "your work of faith" (υμων του εργου της πιστεως). So here Jesus terms belief in him as the work of God. These Jews were thinking of various deeds of the Pharisaic type and rules. Jesus turns their minds to the central fact. "This simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works"

Salvation is a free gift, repentance is a gift, the ransom is paid for by Jesus. Jesus is just using terms the jews would recognize. Want to talk about works? Okay, just believe. Course catholics don't even apply this because they add to what Jesus said.
Jesus never said we are saved by faith alone.
 
Indeed. Dingaling is determined to insert the word "alone", then demand that others defend its insertion! (While simultaneously refusing to say what more than faith is needed.)
One-trick pony?

--Rich
After being corrected and challenged multiple times, I believe it has moved past a simple misunderstanding: and it is now a deliberate attempt to misrepresent
 
After being corrected and challenged multiple times, I believe it has moved past a simple misunderstanding: and it is now a deliberate attempt to misrepresent
Misrepresent what? Many of the nCCs are the ones who are saying that we are saved by faith alone and not by works. I haven't inserted anything.

Nondenom40 was accusing Catholics of adding to what Jesus said. I just pointed out that the nCCs are guilty of the same thing. Jesus never said that we are saved by faith alone.
 
Misrepresent what? Many of the nCCs are the ones who are saying that we are saved by faith alone and not by works. I haven't inserted anything.

Nondenom40 was accusing Catholics of adding to what Jesus said. I just pointed out that the nCCs are guilty of the same thing.
You are refusing to say what more than faith is needed.
still waiting
 
Misrepresent what? Many of the nCCs are the ones who are saying that we are saved by faith alone and not by works. I haven't inserted anything.

Nondenom40 was accusing Catholics of adding to what Jesus said. I just pointed out that the nCCs are guilty of the same thing. Jesus never said that we are saved by faith alone.
But Jesus never added anything to faith. Can you show me where Jesus added to faith as the means of salvation.
 
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