What is the salvific effect of the Cross?

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balshan

Well-known member
bluedog1us said:
Hebrews 10:12 ESV — But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,

Jesus is no longer providing sacrifices for us. He intercedes for us, but only ONE sacrifice!

Hebrews 10:12 ESV — But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,
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I felt it needed to be bolden.
 
B

bluedog1us

Well-known member
romishpopishorganist said:
So, I am tired of explaining this over, and over, and over, again. You keep asking the question as if the answer is going to change and or we are going to throw up our hands and go "We don't know, you got us! The Last Supper is a mere symbol."

What don't you understand about "A circle has no beginning?"

What don't you understand about "This is not linear?"

What don't you understand about "Redemption cannot be pigeonholed into one event?"

Thanks!
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List the scriptures that state that propitiation and redemption occurred BEFORE the cross. Read Paul's definition of the gospel. Do you even know or have some idea what the gospel really is? Maybe you could tell what it is that Jesus did on the cross? Why did Jesus have to die at all? Did HE just come to earth to eat a supper? He came for a specific reason. What was that reason?
According to John's gospel, the world could not hold the books needed if everything Jesus did was written. But He still had one specific reason to come to earth as a man.
 
1Thess521

1Thess521

Well-known member
dingoling. said:
Where does scripture say that it stops when he returns?
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1 Corin 11:26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

What do you do until He comes?
you proclaim the Lord’s death whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup.

eating the bread and drinking this cup is proclaiming the Lord's death:
and you do that until He comes.
 
D

dingoling.

Well-known member
1Thess521 said:
1 Corin 11:26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

What do you do until He comes?
you proclaim the Lord’s death whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup.

eating the bread and drinking this cup is proclaiming the Lord's death:
and you do that until He comes.
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Yes eating and drinking proclaims his death until He comes. We he comes it doesn't need to proclaim his death anymore. But it doesn't say that we stop.
 
Bob Carabbio

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
romishpopishorganist said:
Why, then, was anything else in the life of Christ necessary? I mean heck--he could have been killed as an infant if all he had to do was shed blood.
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Who are you or your "Church system" to question God's methods, or processes in bringing HIS WILL to pass.

One aspect of Jesus LIFE was to be TEMPTED in every respect AS WE ARE (Heb 5:8). Obviously He couldn't do that as an infant. The fact remains, however that THE ONE ACT that Cleanses us from SIN was Jesus' SIN OFFERING on the cross. and all Roman Catholicism's Mumbo-Jumbo about their precious "MASS sacrifice" doesn't change anything about that. It's in Isaiah 53 if you care to read the TRUTH (which is in your version of the Bible also).
 
D

dingoling.

Well-known member
Bob Carabbio said:
Who are you or your "Church system" to question God's methods, or processes in bringing HIS WILL to pass.

One aspect of Jesus LIFE was to be TEMPTED in every respect AS WE ARE (Heb 5:8). Obviously He couldn't do that as an infant. The fact remains, however that THE ONE ACT that Cleanses us from SIN was Jesus' SIN OFFERING on the cross. and all Roman Catholicism's Mumbo-Jumbo about their precious "MASS sacrifice" doesn't change anything about that. It's in Isaiah 53 if you care to read the TRUTH (which is in your version of the Bible also).
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Are not the nCCs questioning God's method or processes to bring his will to pass concerning the Eucharist?
 
D

dingoling.

Well-known member
1Thess521 said:
Q: why would you stop when He returns?

Hint: it is the verse right before what you referenced
"Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”


A: you stop when He returns BECAUSE you stop the "remembrance of me<Christ> .” when He is here..
It is a remembrance of Christ who is not physically with us

Thank you for that
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You didn't answer my question.
 
R

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
1Thess521 said:
was anything else in the life of Christ necessary?
Yes, He had to take on God's wrath on our behalf
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Um, you didn't answer the question. And here you go again with wrath. I have to give it to you Protestants--you sure love wrath. If you people love wrath so much, why do you hate crucifixes? I would think you would LOVE them!

You seem to think that the Cross event is the exact and precise moment where we are saved. You keep obsessing over the point that there has to be an exact and precise moment in time when we are saved.

If it was just a matter of shedding blood---why was anything else in the life of Christ even necessary? Why not just sacrifice Jesus as a child and be done with it? Heck---he could have been sacrificed along with the infants when Herod slaughtered the infants under 2. Blood would have been shed, redemption done with.
 
D

dingoling.

Well-known member
bluedog1us said:
List the scriptures that state that propitiation and redemption occurred BEFORE the cross. Read Paul's definition of the gospel. Do you even know or have some idea what the gospel really is? Maybe you could tell what it is that Jesus did on the cross? Why did Jesus have to die at all? Did HE just come to earth to eat a supper? He came for a specific reason. What was that reason?
According to John's gospel, the world could not hold the books needed if everything Jesus did was written. But He still had one specific reason to come to earth as a man.
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He came to destroy the works of the devil.
 
R

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
1Thess521 said:
that can debated:
but that doesn't change my rebuttal to your post:

What is your answer
Suffering caused by whom?
Suffering at the hands of....?
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Suffering due to the consequences of Sin.

My point?

If you smoke, you get lung cancer. If you eat McDonalds every day you will be 800 pounds, Diabetic, with heart disease, etc.

If you sin, there are spiritual consequences to that. The way I see it, the consequences of sin--are due to the nature of sin itself, just like the consequences of living an unhealthy lifestyle are inherent in the lifestyle. Sin--is its own punishment because of its very nature. Thus, I am not sure that the wrath of God due to sin is something active on God's part, so much as God's wrath for sin---is in the nature of sin itself given who God is.

This means---that when Jesus assumes suffering and death--the consequences of sin, he is suffering the wrath of God, yes---but not in the sense that the Father is literally pouring out wrath on His son instead of us. What Jesus is doing in suffering the consequences of sin is bringing the divine power of God to those consequences and in so doing transforming them.

The Protestant view of the cross--strikes me--as analogous to saying that---when you don't listen to the doctor and you keep smoking---lung cancer happens as a result of the wrath of the doctor. The doctor is punishing you for not listening to him. God the Father would be analogous to the doctor, the patient with lung cancer the sinner who didn't listen. Jesus would be analogous to someone who says to the doctor--"I never smoked, but I will accept getting lung cancer on the smoker's behalf and I will take on that punishment" and the doctor agreeing to that.
 
R

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
balshan said:
Rubbish a circle has a beginning. If you draw a circle it has a starting point, the finish is back at the start.
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You know, my point was simply that we cannot pin down the precise moment or event when redemption happened----becasue---redemption is not linear.

Everything in Christ and His life is redemptive.
 
D

dingoling.

Well-known member
bluedog1us said:
List the scriptures that state that propitiation and redemption occurred BEFORE the cross. Read Paul's definition of the gospel. Do you even know or have some idea what the gospel really is? Maybe you could tell what it is that Jesus did on the cross? Why did Jesus have to die at all? Did HE just come to earth to eat a supper? He came for a specific reason. What was that reason?
According to John's gospel, the world could not hold the books needed if everything Jesus did was written. But He still had one specific reason to come to earth as a man.
Click to expand...
Scripture says that eternal redemption was obtained when Jesus entered the Holy of Holies in the heavenly tabernacle with his own blood.
 
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