What is the True Meaning of Matthew 16: 18-19?

RayneBeau

Well-known member
If, in Matthew 16:18-19 and John 20:23, the Lord Jesus Christ was not giving Peter and the other disciples authority to forgive sins through confession and penance, what exactly was he authorizing them to do?
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
Well lets start with a fundamental point: and if that point is true: then anything that contradicts it, must be false.

QUESTION --> Is this true or not?
"only God can forgive sins"

I see that as a fundamental truth.
It would be interesting to see other's view:
"Yes, its true.....but"

As my boss say's "Yes, but ...." means "no"
 
Last edited:

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Yes, it is true that "only God can forgive sins."

Now, looking at those verses in Matt. 16: 18-19, what does he mean when he uses the terms "keys of the kingdom" and "binding" and loosing"?
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
Yes, it is true that "only God can forgive sins."

Now, looking at those verses in Matt. 16: 18-19, what does he mean when he uses the terms "keys of the kingdom" and "binding" and loosing"?
The expressions “bind” and “loose” were common to Jewish legal phraseology meaning to declare something forbidden or to declare it allowed.

The book of Acts shows us this process at work. By his sermon on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:14-40), Peter opened the door of the kingdom for the first time.

In both Matthew 16:19 and 18:18, the syntax of the Greek text makes the meaning clear:
“Whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens” (Matthew 16:19, Young’s Literal Translation).
Or, as the Amplified Bible puts it, “Whatever you bind [forbid, declare to be improper and unlawful] on earth will have [already] been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose [permit, declare lawful] on earth will have [already] been loosed in heaven.”
 

ding

Member
If, in Matthew 16:18-19 and John 20:23, the Lord Jesus Christ was not giving Peter and the other disciples authority to forgive sins through confession and penance, what exactly was he authorizing them to do?
I didn't think that scripture alone Christians had authority to settle disbutes over the understanding of scripture.
 

mica

Well-known member
The expressions “bind” and “loose” were common to Jewish legal phraseology meaning to declare something forbidden or to declare it allowed.

The book of Acts shows us this process at work. By his sermon on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:14-40), Peter opened the door of the kingdom for the first time.

In both Matthew 16:19 and 18:18, the syntax of the Greek text makes the meaning clear:
“Whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens” (Matthew 16:19, Young’s Literal Translation).
Or, as the Amplified Bible puts it, “Whatever you bind [forbid, declare to be improper and unlawful] on earth will have [already] been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose [permit, declare lawful] on earth will have [already] been loosed in heaven.”
Amen.

what they could bind on earth is only what had already been bound in heaven - by God. we find those things in scripture, God's word.

what they could loose on earth is only that which was already loosed in heaven - by God. We find those in scripture, God's word.

It does not say that man can make up anything else to bind or loose, yet the RCC does just that.
 

mica

Well-known member
I didn't think that scripture alone Christians had authority to settle disbutes over the understanding of scripture.
Why do you think that? is that based on scripture? When Paul responded to problems in the churches he gave them info / guidelines for doing that. His words are scripture.
 

Nondenom40

Active member
I didn't think that scripture alone Christians had authority to settle disbutes over the understanding of scripture.
And yet here you are on CARM. A site dedicated to explaining scripture and defending the faith. Or maybe its all a dream?? Still not getting ss are you?
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
The expressions “bind” and “loose” were common to Jewish legal phraseology meaning to declare something forbidden or to declare it allowed.

The book of Acts shows us this process at work. By his sermon on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:14-40), Peter opened the door of the kingdom for the first time.

In both Matthew 16:19 and 18:18, the syntax of the Greek text makes the meaning clear:
“Whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens” (Matthew 16:19, Young’s Literal Translation).
Or, as the Amplified Bible puts it, “Whatever you bind [forbid, declare to be improper and unlawful] on earth will have [already] been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose [permit, declare lawful] on earth will have [already] been loosed in heaven.”
So, were the Scribes and the Pharisee's of Jesus' day telling the people what they must do and observe? And, were they practicing the "binding" and "loosening" of rules and regulations that they made up themselves for the Jews to obey?
 
Last edited:

balshan

Well-known member
Well lets start with a fundamental point: and if that point is true: then anything that contradicts it, must be false.

QUESTION --> Is this true or not?
"only God can forgive sins"

I see that as a fundamental truth.
It would be interesting to see other's view:
"Yes, its true.....but"

As my boss say's "Yes, but ...." means "no"
There is no dispute that only God can forgive sins. No ifs, buts or maybes.
 

balshan

Well-known member
S
I didn't think that scripture alone Christians had authority to settle disbutes over the understanding of scripture.
So that means we can have anyone settle disputes over scripture, even a person who has no understanding of the kingdom and who believes Jesus is not real. Gotcha.
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
So, were the Scribes and the Pharisee's of Jesus' day telling the people what they must do and observe? And, were they practicing the "binding" and "loosening" of rules and regulations that they made up themselves for the Jews to obey?

'what they must do and observe"
Must do and observer for what reason? In order for what?
I must do and observe what a cop says in order not to get arrested.

and yes, in the legal sense: the Scribes and the Pharisee's of Jesus' day were binding and loosening:

as I said "The expressions “bind” and “loose” were common to Jewish legal phraseology"

Matthew 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move <loosen> them with one of their fingers.
 
Last edited:

RayneBeau

Well-known member
You have posed some excellent questions in this thread, well done.
Thank you balshan :)
'what they must do and observe"
Must do and observer for what reason? In order for what?
I must do and observe what a cop says in order not to get arrested.

and yes, in the legal sense: the Scribes and the Pharisee's of Jesus' day were binding and loosening:

as I said "The expressions “bind” and “loose” were common to Jewish legal phraseology"

Matthew 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move <loosen> them with one of their fingers.
Well, I wondered, because further on, in Matt. 23, we read Jesus' words about the Scribes and the Pharisees, as you have already noted. Seems they were brazen enough to seat themselves in the chair of Moses. . . but Jesus said 'woe to them' and Jesus called them hypocrites because they shut off the kingdom of heaven from men, nor do they enter themselves. . .
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
The expressions “bind” and “loose” were common to Jewish legal phraseology meaning to declare something forbidden or to declare it allowed.

The book of Acts shows us this process at work. By his sermon on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:14-40), Peter opened the door of the kingdom for the first time.

In both Matthew 16:19 and 18:18, the syntax of the Greek text makes the meaning clear:
“Whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens” (Matthew 16:19, Young’s Literal Translation).
Or, as the Amplified Bible puts it, “Whatever you bind [forbid, declare to be improper and unlawful] on earth will have [already] been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose [permit, declare lawful] on earth will have [already] been loosed in heaven.”
So, it seems that these Scribes and Pharisees put themselves in charge of alot, and that the "keys of the kingdom" were really a symbolic expression for the OT Scriptures which set forth the way of salvation. The OT was the only Scripture they had at the time I suppose, but sounds like the Pharisees and the Scribes wasted no time in acquainting their fellow Jews with their knowledge of Scripture.
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
So, it seems that these Scribes and Pharisees put themselves in charge of alot, and that the "keys of the kingdom" were really a symbolic expression for the OT Scriptures which set forth the way of salvation. The OT was the only Scripture they had at the time I suppose, but sounds like the Pharisees and the Scribes wasted no time in acquainting their fellow Jews with their knowledge of Scripture.
What do think is the true meaning of those verses?
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Amen.

what they could bind on earth is only what had already been bound in heaven - by God. we find those things in scripture, God's word.

what they could loose on earth is only that which was already loosed in heaven - by God. We find those in scripture, God's word.

It does not say that man can make up anything else to bind or loose, yet the RCC does just that.
Yes, I agree totally that the RCC just makes up anything to bind or loose - they must have followed in the footsteps of the Pharisees and the Scribes in Jesus' day by veiling the Scriptures and perverting their meaning so that the people who wanted knowledge of the Scriptures were deprived of it.
In the Christian dispensation though, it was the apostles who were given the "keys of the kingdom" - not that they could admit certain individuals into the kingdom while excluding others by a mere word, but that, as Paul said, they were "entrusted with the Gospel [of Christ]" and so opened or closed the kingdom as they proclaimed the Word of Life or withheld it. So, in that sense then, every minister today, and even every Christian, who teaches the Word also possesses the "keys" and admits to, or excludes from, the kingdom. Peter was given that key, and he used it to unlock the kingdom to those to whom he preached.
The Roman Catholic Church claims they have full ownership of the "keys" given to Peter by Christ. But if that is the truth, how do they use the "keys"- how do they make known the message of salvation and so open up to others the way into the kingdom of heaven?
 

mica

Well-known member
Yes, I agree totally that the RCC just makes up anything to bind or loose - they must have followed in the footsteps of the Pharisees and the Scribes in Jesus' day by veiling the Scriptures and perverting their meaning so that the people who wanted knowledge of the Scriptures were deprived of it.
In the Christian dispensation though, it was the apostles who were given the "keys of the kingdom" - not that they could admit certain individuals into the kingdom while excluding others by a mere word, but that, as Paul said, they were "entrusted with the Gospel [of Christ]" and so opened or closed the kingdom as they proclaimed the Word of Life or withheld it. So, in that sense then, every minister today, and even every Christian, who teaches the Word also possesses the "keys" and admits to, or excludes from, the kingdom. Peter was given that key, and he used it to unlock the kingdom to those to whom he preached.
The Roman Catholic Church claims they have full ownership of the "keys" given to Peter by Christ.
I 'spect those 'keys' are hanging on a wall in the catholic palace. :)

But if that is the truth, how do they use the "keys"- how do they make known the message of salvation and so open up to others the way into the kingdom of heaven?
to open doors to the secret rooms in the catholic palace and to the basement where the bodies are kept.

they don't. they don't know the message, besides they just want to open their man made kingdom to people, not God's kingdom.
 
Top