What is the True Meaning of Matthew 16: 18-19?

balshan

Well-known member
Yes, I agree totally that the RCC just makes up anything to bind or loose - they must have followed in the footsteps of the Pharisees and the Scribes in Jesus' day by veiling the Scriptures and perverting their meaning so that the people who wanted knowledge of the Scriptures were deprived of it.
In the Christian dispensation though, it was the apostles who were given the "keys of the kingdom" - not that they could admit certain individuals into the kingdom while excluding others by a mere word, but that, as Paul said, they were "entrusted with the Gospel [of Christ]" and so opened or closed the kingdom as they proclaimed the Word of Life or withheld it. So, in that sense then, every minister today, and even every Christian, who teaches the Word also possesses the "keys" and admits to, or excludes from, the kingdom. Peter was given that key, and he used it to unlock the kingdom to those to whom he preached.
The Roman Catholic Church claims they have full ownership of the "keys" given to Peter by Christ. But if that is the truth, how do they use the "keys"- how do they make known the message of salvation and so open up to others the way into the kingdom of heaven?
Oh they follow them in so many woes:

The institution is hypocritical and places burdens on the people.

They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

Matt 23:4
 

mica

Well-known member
Oh they follow them in so many woes:

The institution is hypocritical and places burdens on the people.

They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.


Matt 23:4
yes, catholics are bound by the man made burdens taught by the RCC.

they know nothing of the freedom in Christ.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
I 'spect those 'keys' are hanging on a wall in the catholic palace. :)


to open doors to the secret rooms in the catholic palace and to the basement where the bodies are kept.

they don't. they don't know the message, besides they just want to open their man made kingdom to people, not God's kingdom.
Yah.... and they are probably solid gold too, perhaps even encrusted with real diamonds the same way that the pope's toilet flusher is! Have you heard before about that real toilet flusher on the pope's toilet? ugh! o_O
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Oh they follow them in so many woes:

The institution is hypocritical and places burdens on the people.

They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

Matt 23:4
Yes, yes! The powers of binding or loosing, and of forgiving or retaining sins, were given to the apostles as proclaimers of the Word of God, not as Roman Catholic priests who sit in a darkened confessional coyly looking at x-rated magazines while deafly hearing a few words that might spike the priests interest from the confessing Roman Catholic penitent.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Oh they follow them in so many woes:

The institution is hypocritical and places burdens on the people.

They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

Matt 23:4
Roman Catholics falsely pride themselves on their own 'self-appointed' powers of binding and loosening. But as has been shown in this forum time after time, there is NO select class of Christian "priests" in the NT dispensation. The apostles never claimed the power of forgiving sins by absolution as the Roman priests do. Instead the apostles preached the Gospel of salvation through Christ - which was a declarative power, by which they announced the gracious terms on which salvation was granted to sinful men.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Well lets start with a fundamental point: and if that point is true: then anything that contradicts it, must be false.

QUESTION --> Is this true or not?
"only God can forgive sins"

I see that as a fundamental truth.
It would be interesting to see other's view:
"Yes, its true.....but"

As my boss say's "Yes, but ...." means "no"
OF course it ain't ABOUT "Forgiveness". Forgiveness is nothing but a "Decision" to rip up the I.O.U. ANYBODY can "forgive" any sin committed against themselves.

The Gospel TRICK isn't "Forgiveness" at all.

IT'S COMPLETE REMOVAL OF SIN So that the Born AGain Christian is JUSTIFIED ("Just as if I'd - never sinned"). he SIN is GONE, and the Born AGain Christian stands befor God with the very PERFECTION of Jesus Himself.
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
In your definition of sola scriptura are personal interpretations the final authority?
not even close:
my definition of Sola Scriptura is that the written words of God have the same authority as God speaking from His Throne:
and by definition: there is no authority higher than that.
give up the strawman
 
D

ding

Guest
not even close: my definition of Sola Scriptura is that the written words of God have the same authority as God speaking from Hos Throne
You may want to read the op again because the posted settled an issue of the Christian faith based on his own personal interpretation.
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
You may want to read the op again because the posted settled an issue of the Christian faith based on his own personal interpretation.
You are so confused:

you actually think that people disagreeing on the meaning of God's words diminishes the word's authority
 
D

ding

Guest
You are so confused:

you actually think that people disagreeing on the meaning of God's words diminishes the word's authority
When I read the op it appears to me that the poster has settled an issue of the Christian faith based on his own personal interpretation of scripture.

If an issue of the Christian faith is settled on personal interpretations doesn't that make it the final authority?
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
When I read the op it appears to me that the poster has settled an issue of the Christian faith based on his own personal interpretation of scripture.

If an issue of the Christian faith is settled on personal interpretations doesn't that make it the final authority?
FIRST: Sola Scriptura is NOT about interpretations : it is about the hierarchy of authority:

Can you please use these description of SS? (if not; why not)
From Catholic.com
the principle of sola scriptura ("Scripture alone"), according to the sharpest Protestant scholars, means that the Bible is the ultimate authority—above councils and popes and any tradition—but not that no commentary or tradition may be cited or utilized

from New Advent
"The [first] objective [or formal] principle proclaims the canonical Scriptures, especially the New Testament, to be the only infallible source and rule of faith and practice (not the only source)"
" Protestantism, however, by no means despises or rejects church authority as such, but only subordinates it to, and measures its value by, the Bible,"

SECOND: IN CONTEXT do you think "final authority" when discussing Sola Scriptura means the HIGHEST: or the last person you ask?

This is Sola Scriptura: (the hierarchy of authority)

Better far that I should read with certainty and persuasion of its truth the Holy Scripture, placed on the highest (even the heavenly) pinnacle of authority, and should, without questioning the trustworthiness of its statements, learn from it that men have been either, commended, or corrected, or condemned, than that, through fear of believing that by men, who, though of most praiseworthy excellence, were no more than men, actions deserving rebuke might sometimes be done, I should admit suspicions affecting the trustworthiness of the whole “oracles of God.”​
-Augustine, Letters of St. Augustine, Letter 82.2.5​
This Mediator [Jesus Christ], having spoken what He judged sufficient first by the prophets, then by His own lips, and afterwards by the apostles, has besides produced the Scripture which is called canonical, which has paramount authority, and to which we yield assent in all matters of which we ought not to be ignorant, and yet cannot know of ourselves.
-St. Augustine, quoted from his City of God, book XI, Chapter 3,​
St. Augustine (A.D. 354–430)​
De unitate ecclesiae, 10​
“Neither dare one agree with catholic bishops if by chance they err in anything, but the result that their opinion is against the canonical Scriptures of God.”

and this Sola Scriptura
QUOTE=rldlolbeding;

All Scripture is God breathed (pasa graphe theopneustos) - Yes
Every line of Scripture is infallible and inerrant (Incapable of error. Contains no errors) - Yes
It is The Truth ( not a truth, not merely correct) - Yes
Anything statement that disagrees with Scripture, by definition must be an error - Yes
It is impossible for Scripture to disagree with God. - Yes
It is impossible for God to disagree with Scripture. - Yes
God speaking from His Throne; Jesus preaching from the Mount, and ALL God breathed writings carry the same EQUAL authority - Yes.
Do Catholics believe that it is a requirement for God to state that He is the highest authority for it to be true? - No
Do Catholics believe that it is a requirement for God breathed writtings to state they are the highest authority for it to be true? - No
Are there any other God breathed writings (graphe theopneustos) not included in the Bible*?
(*that we still have access to) - No
Are there any other writings that can claim every line is infallible and inerrant ? - No
Are there any other writings that it is impossible for God to disagree with? - No
Are there any other writings that carry the EXACT same authority as God speaking from His Throne or Jesus preaching from the Mount? - No
end QUOTE=rldlolbeding;
 
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1Thess521

Well-known member
When I read the op it appears to me that the poster has settled an issue of the Christian faith based on his own personal interpretation of scripture.

If an issue of the Christian faith is settled on personal interpretations doesn't that make it the final authority?
What do you mean settled? by whom; for whom?
I have changed my understanding of the meanings of Scripture several times in my life of study:

that does NOT place my authority higher than the word of God!

How can you not know that?
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
I 'spect those 'keys' are hanging on a wall in the catholic palace. :)


to open doors to the secret rooms in the catholic palace and to the basement where the bodies are kept.

they don't. they don't know the message, besides they just want to open their man made kingdom to people, not God's kingdom.
The RCC is blinding people, and all the while building their church, furthering their blasphemies, and telling men and women that by entering their church they are coming into the kingdom of God.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
When I read the op it appears to me that the poster has settled an issue of the Christian faith based on his own personal interpretation of scripture.

If an issue of the Christian faith is settled on personal interpretations doesn't that make it the final authority?
NOT!
Here's a question for you ding, and also for other Roman Catholics in this forum:
'How do men and women enter into the Kingdom of God?'
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
You may want to read the op again because the posted settled an issue of the Christian faith based on his own personal interpretation.
What on earth are you talking about ding? o_O

This is exactly how my OP was stated:
If, in Matthew 16:18-19 and John 20:23, the Lord Jesus Christ was not giving Peter and the other disciples authority to forgive sins through confession and penance, what exactly was he authorizing them to do?

That is NOT a personal interpretation, that is posing a question. Do you read the Bible much? :unsure:
 
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