What is Truth?

Nouveau

Well-known member
Your entire world view is the epitome of contradictions...
That's a bold claim. Presumably you're able to point out one of these alleged contradictions in my world view, right?

I believe that we've been here before and the only thing you could do is to justify your ignorance as the epitome of knowledge.
Well, look at that. Another strawman. I'm sure no-one saw that coming.
 

Algor

Active member
I have a novel idea.

Since you're so adept with the Bible, from the entire new testament, pick some teachings which will result in these atrocities you're talking about.
I don't think anything in the Christian Bible asserts that God is fundamentally illogical. Of course I could be wrong, but it was your assertion, not mine.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
That's a bold claim. Presumably you're able to point out one of these alleged contradictions in my world view, right?


Well, look at that. Another strawman. I'm sure no-one saw that coming.
Had i not been observing your posts, and practices for the past 8+ years, I'd absolutely agree with you.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
I don't think anything in the Christian Bible asserts that God is fundamentally illogical. Of course I could be wrong, but it was your assertion, not mine.
Ah. So you can make false assertions, but not back them up.
Come on Algor!
Own your fraud with more integrity than this!!

I was quite clear about the logic of the Bible and the logic of the world.

You're just conflating ideas you're tripping over to win an argument you can never win.
Not because I'm so eloquent or logical, but because of the resurrection of Jesus.
 

rossum

Well-known member
I have a novel idea.

Since you're so adept with the Bible, from the entire new testament, pick some teachings which will result in these atrocities you're talking about.
So, you are ignoring the larger part of the Bible? Obviously you are aware of all the teachings which will result in atrocities from the Old Testament. Your limiting of the question shows that you are well aware of the nature of the Old Testament. How many people were killed because of "You shall not allow a witch to live"? Ah, but that isn't in the New Testament so it doesn't count.

Obvious cherry-picking is obvious.
 
SteveB said:
the evidence has been in existence since his resurrection.
Your ignorance is the only excuse you have left.
I think we have very different standards of evidence then.


SteveB said:
Nope.
But if it'll make you feel better, I'll create a bot that'll keep posting the same thing over and over again so you can feel like you're achieving something by beating yourself against the wall.
Repetition does not establish truth.


SteveB said:
Ah.... ye old--- I'm ignorant, and I like ignorance because ignorance makes me feel superior, like I actually know something that I don't actually know, but I feel good claiming it, to make others think I know what they don't know..... ruse.

Let me know how that works for you in another 100 years.
Bizarrely irrelevant to my stated position.


SteveB said:
He already has proven his existence.
How many times did you need him to provide the best evidence of his existence that could be provided?
Or do you think you're special, and are entitled to more than everyone else was given?
OK you have posted a list of evidences below, let's examine them.

SteveB said:
1 The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork.
2 Day unto day utters speech, And night unto night reveals knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language Where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line has gone out through all the earth, And their words to the end of the world.
The heavens, (stars, planets, space, etc, etc) exists, that we can both agree on. The heavens runs according to physics, I don't see anything other than awesome stuff, how does this proclaims god?

SteveB said:
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
Claiming that the universe is a creation of God is just that, a claim! You need evidence that the universe or anything contained within it is the produce of the divine. Just saying it's so does not make it so.

SteveB said:
“Nevertheless He did not leave Himself without witness, in that He did good, gave us rain from heaven and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.
Attributing stuff to God is the claim you need to find evidence for, where is the evidence?

SteveB said:
Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: 24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood[fn] every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”
Attributing stuff to God is the claim you need to find evidence for, where is the evidence?

SteveB said:
The cosmos, creation, food, gladness of heart, satisfaction of being, light, darkness, love, friendship, ..........
This is just a list of things your attributing to god creating. Attributing stuff to god is the claim you need to find evidence for, where is the evidence?


SteveB said:
He already has.
If you reject the evidence he's chosen to give us, that's on you, and evidence that you prefer your sin over the truth, as Jesus said.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
This is NOT evidence, this is just an unsubstantiated claim. You now need to find evidence for these claims before you can say they are true.

SteveB said:
It's actually a fact, which is why it was written in the first place.
Just because stuff is written down does not make it a fact. Please explain why you think the contrary.

SteveB said:
Well, since you weren't there to observe it, that means you're required to take that claim by faith, which would raise the question of your atheism. I.e., to believe, what nobody else alive today was present to witness, the testimony of others, makes you a believer in that which you don't know by first hand evidence.
Do you require to witness every happenstance before you are willing to believe something is true? No progress can ever be made beyond one generation if each has to 'rediscover the wheel' This is a bizarrely ridiculous argument.


SteveB said:
It's not that complicated.
Have you ever done any of those activities?
Have you ever done anything for yourself, or has everything in your life been done for you?
Yes. How does that explain your analogy?


[QUOTE="SteveB]And yet you believe that the world is older than the lifespans of the entire human race alive today.[/QUOTE]There is compelling and verifiable scientific evidence that the earth is 3.7 (ish) billions of years old, and our universe 13 (ish) billion. Can you do the same for Biblical timelines?
 

Algor

Active member
Ah. So you can make false assertions, but not back them up.
Come on Algor!
Own your fraud with more integrity than this!!

I was quite clear about the logic of the Bible and the logic of the world.

You're just conflating ideas you're tripping over to win an argument you can never win.
Not because I'm so eloquent or logical, but because of the resurrection of Jesus.
Which false assertion did I make? I said that if you assert A=not A (i.e. "biblical logic is antithetical to worldly logic") you can justify any atrocity.

I don’t really think sensible people would debate that point, so you must have gotten confused somewhere.
 
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SteveB

Well-known member
If you were really observing my posts you would have noticed that my last one contained a question for you.
yeah, well..... you should've thought about that when you continued telling me that all my questions are strawmen, irrelevant, etc....
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
yeah, well..... you should've thought about that when you continued telling me that all my questions are strawmen, irrelevant, etc....
If you think I've mistakenly characterized or evaded one of your questions, please do point it out.

In the meantime you're the only one evading here.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
So, you are ignoring the larger part of the Bible?
Well, I'm neither an Israeli, nor under the covenant of Moses.
According to Jeremiah 31, as a follower of Jesus, I'm under the new covenant, where YHVH has written his law in my heart, and on my mind.
So, by all means, if you want to take a shot at it, tell me how by following Jesus, keeping his teachings, I'd commit atrocities against others.
Based on your comments, it seems like this should be a breeze for you.

Moreover, as we read in Matthew 22, and Romans 13:8-10, the law is fulfilled in the command--- love your neighbor as yourself.....



Obviously you are aware of all the teachings which will result in atrocities from the Old Testament.
First, they actually have to be genuine atrocities. I notice that you, and others here have ignored the real atrocities, and justified them in order to condemn God, and justify the wicked, and ungodly who slaughtered their children, abandoned their parental duties and responsibilities, murdered their fellow humans, sacrificed their children to false gods, which the bible says are demons, on metal arms heated to white hot, roasting them alive. So...... by all means,
Your limiting of the question shows that you are well aware of the nature of the Old Testament. How many people were killed because of "You shall not allow a witch to live"? Ah, but that isn't in the New Testament so it doesn't count.
And?
I'm not commanded to kill witches. I am commanded to love my enemies, pray for those who mistreat me, and bless those who curse me.
So..... are you able to focus, or did you need to throw a temper tantrum to get your way, because you know all too well the commands and teachings of Jesus, the apostles, and disciples that there's nothing in the NT which allows for atrocities by Jesus' followers, so Algor's assertion is a fraud, for which you have no means of escape except to refer back to a collection of documents which provide an historical context, from which Paul tells us in Romans and 1 Corinthians----

11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.


So..... seriously R...... grow up and get over yourself. It's insulting to you for you to act in this manner.
Obvious cherry-picking is obvious.
Indeed! You're quite skilled at it.
Why would you work so desperately to do this, when you're given an entire collection to pull from?

You really are insulting yourself. It's sad to see you do this.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
If you think I've mistakenly characterized or evaded one of your questions, please do point it out.

In the meantime you're the only one evading here.
Stop.

Your ongoing willful and deliberate short term recollection practices shame and humiliate you. I'm done with it.
Let me know when you grow a pair, so we can actually engage, instead of this game you think works.
 

Algor

Active member
Stop.

Your ongoing willful and deliberate short term recollection practices shame and humiliate you. I'm done with it.
Let me know when you grow a pair, so we can actually engage, instead of this game you think works.
I believe that's called a "flounce", combined with sexual taunting. A twofer.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Which false assertion did I make? I said that if you assert A=not A (i.e. "biblical logic is antithetical to worldly logic") you can justify any atrocity.

I don’t really think sensible people would debate that point, so you must have gotten confused somewhere.
sigh.....


Note that one can justify any atrocity using this line of reasoning.

Wanna try again?

This should be easy for you.
From the teachings of Jesus (4 gospels), and the apostles (the letters, Acts, Revelation), what kinds of atrocities would I commit?
Here's an online bible, which has a really excellent search engine.


Speaking the truth?
Loving my enemies?
Praying for those who treat me with disrespect, like dirt, kill me?
Or blessing those who curse and verbally abuse me?
Come on Al.
 

Algernon

Active member
Only for people who do not follow the biblical edict to do what Jesus said.

This is identical to a college student's practice of either doing homework/exams/labs, or just talking about it, and never doing it.

For atheists who claim to have "tried it" but found, have been unable to demonstrate that they actually did what Jesus said.
He was quite clear---- Not everyone who calls me Lord will enter God's Kingdom. But only those who DO the Will of my Father who is in Heaven. Matthew 7:21

Jesus further said--- if anyone loves me, they will keep my teachings, and they will be loved by my Father, and we will come and make our home with them..... John 14:23

So, by all means.... please elaborate on what you think Confirmation Bias is.... It's my understanding that confirmation bias is a set of beliefs based on opinions only, which have no basis, or bearing on factual experience.
Can you address the points made in the following that I posted earlier? You seem to have lost track of it.

Let's see. For one you have taken Matthew 7:21 out of context.

21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

"Evildoers" are those who commit sin. They do sin. They do evil.

What's more, regarding John 14:23: those who commit sin also do not "keep [His] teachings".

There are many Christians who commit sin. They are "evildoers". They do not do "the will of [His] Father who is in heaven". They do not "keep [His] teachings". Do you also count such Christians as "unable to demonstrate that they actually [do] what Jesus said"?
 

rossum

Well-known member
Well, I'm neither an Israeli, nor under the covenant of Moses.
The Ten Commandments are in Exodus, and so are part of the Covenant of Moses. Do you consider yourself not bound by them? Can we trust anything you say if you are not bound by "You shall not bear false witness"? You might want to clarify your position here.

First, they actually have to be genuine atrocities.
Obvious lead in to a No True Scotsman fallacy is obvious. You require a "genuine" atrocity, yet you do not supply any way to differentiate between a genuine atrocity and a non-genuine one. Obvious again, I'm afraid.

Is killing the unborn a "genuine" atrocity? God killed every single unborn child on earth with his flood, which drowned all the pregnant women. Are you going to try to tell me that His action was not a "genuine" atrocity.

My apologies if you are not a Biblical literalist, in that case He killed all the unborn children in a large area of the Near East. Not quite as bad, but still an atrocity.

I'm not commanded to kill witches.
A lot of past Christians disagreed with you. They were acting on what the Old Testament said.
 

Algor

Active member



Wanna try again?

Sure: You said that biblical logic is antithetical to worldly logic.
Logic: the systematic study of valid rules
antithesis: being in direct and unequivocal opposition : directly opposite or opposed

If a system of thought is in direct and unequivocal opposition to valid rules of reasoning, it can be employed to justify anything: that's what you can do with chaotic poor reasoning. If you can justify anything, that includes atrocity. Ergo, if biblical logic is in direct and unequivocal opposition to valid rules of reasoning, it can be used to justify atrocity.

If you disagree with any of that, just point out the part and we can talk about it.



This should be easy for you.

It was.

From the teachings of Jesus (4 gospels), and the apostles (the letters, Acts, Revelation), what kinds of atrocities would I commit?
Here's an online bible, which has a really excellent search engine.


Speaking the truth?
Loving my enemies?
Praying for those who treat me with disrespect, like dirt, kill me?
Or blessing those who curse and verbally abuse me?
Come on Al.
Not substantive to the point.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Can you address the points made in the following that I posted earlier? You seem to have lost track of it.

Let's see. For one you have taken Matthew 7:21 out of context.

21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

I have a novel idea.... let's do it with the entire context of the passage.



The Narrow Way​


(Luke 13:24 )​


13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because[fn] narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.​

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits​




15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.​

I Never Knew You​


(Luke 6:46; 13:26, 27 )​


21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’​

Build on the Rock​




24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.​

26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”​



"Evildoers" are those who commit sin. They do sin. They do evil.
Yes they do.
Jesus said in Matthew 7, 12, and in Luke 11

Mat 7:11 NKJV - "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!
Mat 12:34 NKJV - "Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
Luk 11:13 NKJV - "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!"

So, everyone is evil. 100% of the entire human race.
You and me included.

What's more, regarding John 14:23: those who commit sin also do not "keep [His] teachings".
Again.... if you're going to rant about taking passages out of context, you're going to have to do a better job than this.

19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”​

22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?”​

23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.
There are many Christians who commit sin. They are "evildoers".
And?

They do not do "the will of [His] Father who is in heaven".
And?

They do not "keep [His] teachings".
And?
Do you also count such Christians as "unable to demonstrate that they actually [do] what Jesus said"?
It's a pity you don't actually take into account the whole counsel of God's Word. You might actually learn something you've yet to see.

The first part of being right with God is turning to him, from our sin, and then placing our trust in Jesus.
the bible describes this as repentance, and believing the gospel.

It's written in 1 John 1:5-2:2

5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.​
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.​

We must first acknowledge our sin to God, the language used is to confess it. Or, agree with what God says about sin in general, and our sin specifically.
He said that he gave his only begotten son to save us from perishing (the consequence of our sin/evil-doing).
He's given us the means/methods/wherewithal to know him, and to live a life that honors him.

So...... as I have not been given the authority to decide what others do, or don't do, and have only been given what's written in the word to know the state I have before God, and the gospel to give to others, I'd say you have a far greater problem.....

1 There were present at that season some who told Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answered and said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”​
The Parable of the Barren Fig Tree​
6 He also spoke this parable: “A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. 7 Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, ‘Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?’ 8 But he answered and said to him, ‘Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it. 9 And if it bears fruit, well. But if not, after that you can cut it down.’ ”​

When you decide what you want your state to be before God, follow Jesus' instructions. Until then, you're already under the axe, waiting to cut down your tree. You should concern yourself less with what you belief are the failures and faults of others, and focus on your own sin. Just like we who follow Jesus have done--- dealt with God, regarding our sin first, and then focus on proclaiming his truth.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
The Ten Commandments are in Exodus, and so are part of the Covenant of Moses. Do you consider yourself not bound by them? Can we trust anything you say if you are not bound by "You shall not bear false witness"? You might want to clarify your position here.
According to Romans 3:27-31 we read the following.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.​

According to Romans 13:8-10 we read

8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.​

In Matthew 22 we read

35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”​
37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”​

So, by the looks of it, by focusing on loving God with a whole heart, soul, and mind, and loving my neighbor as myself, I am fulfilling the law.




Obvious lead in to a No True Scotsman fallacy is obvious. You require a "genuine" atrocity, yet you do not supply any way to differentiate between a genuine atrocity and a non-genuine one. Obvious again, I'm afraid.
I guess that means you're screwed. I'm Scottish by birth. So, you go right ahead and keep tripping over yourself.
When God says that he'll judge us for our sin, and that there are natural consequences to sin, for which we may perish in an exceedingly brutal manner due to our sin, But you justify violence done by parents to their children, it seems to me that it's you who seeks to trivialize genuine atrocities, and focus on the consequences of my own stupidity as the atrocity.


Is killing the unborn a "genuine" atrocity? God killed every single unborn child on earth with his flood, which drowned all the pregnant women. Are you going to try to tell me that His action was not a "genuine" atrocity.
That's the rumor.
In light of Jesus' statement that as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the days of the Son of Man, and I look around me and see close to 1000 unborn babies being slaughtered by their parents today, and then consider that almost 13 million babies have been slaughtered since January 1st, as well as God gave the people of Noah's day 120 years to turn to him, from their sin, and they refused, I'd say if we use the numbers of abortions, now, over the course of 120 years, and last year over 40 million babies were aborted, that would be 4,800,000,000 babies slaughtered over those 120 years.
So, I'm curious..... God said at the time he initially warned Noah of the flood, the human race was corrupt, and evil then. I.e., "the thoughts and intents of their hearts are only continually evil."
You tell me.... what is evil?
Is murder evil?
How about rape?
Is throwing your child onto the white hot arms of a metal idol evil? After all, they were worshippers of false gods. So, part of their religious practices were to roast their children alive, on a fire.
How about husbands and wives screwing temple prostitutes, as part of their worship?
Is robbing your neighbor evil?
Are muggings evil?

4.8 billion babies slaughtered by their parents, over the course of 120 years.....
"As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the days of the Son of Man."
I'd say they slaughtered their own children, long before the flood ever came.

But, you go right ahead and work through that yourself. I'm confident you'll find a collection of nicely developed excuses to justify such heinous crimes, while blaming YHVH for stepping in, and saving the human race.

My apologies if you are not a Biblical literalist, in that case He killed all the unborn children in a large area of the Near East. Not quite as bad, but still an atrocity.
I'm not the one having a problem here. It's quite clear that you've never actually paid any attention to what the bible says, except for those parts that you use to justify yourself before God.

A lot of past Christians disagreed with you. They were acting on what the Old Testament said.
I'm not following past Christians.
I'm learning to follow Jesus. After all, it is written in Hebrews 12

1 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.​

So, if I'm to place my focus on Jesus, who authored, and will finish my faith, where do I have room, let alone time to follow all those other "past Christians"?
 
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