That's a bold claim. Presumably you're able to point out one of these alleged contradictions in my world view, right?Your entire world view is the epitome of contradictions...
Well, look at that. Another strawman. I'm sure no-one saw that coming.I believe that we've been here before and the only thing you could do is to justify your ignorance as the epitome of knowledge.
I don't think anything in the Christian Bible asserts that God is fundamentally illogical. Of course I could be wrong, but it was your assertion, not mine.I have a novel idea.
Since you're so adept with the Bible, from the entire new testament, pick some teachings which will result in these atrocities you're talking about.
Had i not been observing your posts, and practices for the past 8+ years, I'd absolutely agree with you.That's a bold claim. Presumably you're able to point out one of these alleged contradictions in my world view, right?
Well, look at that. Another strawman. I'm sure no-one saw that coming.
Ah. So you can make false assertions, but not back them up.I don't think anything in the Christian Bible asserts that God is fundamentally illogical. Of course I could be wrong, but it was your assertion, not mine.
So, you are ignoring the larger part of the Bible? Obviously you are aware of all the teachings which will result in atrocities from the Old Testament. Your limiting of the question shows that you are well aware of the nature of the Old Testament. How many people were killed because of "You shall not allow a witch to live"? Ah, but that isn't in the New Testament so it doesn't count.I have a novel idea.
Since you're so adept with the Bible, from the entire new testament, pick some teachings which will result in these atrocities you're talking about.
I think we have very different standards of evidence then.SteveB said:the evidence has been in existence since his resurrection.
Your ignorance is the only excuse you have left.
Repetition does not establish truth.SteveB said:Nope.
But if it'll make you feel better, I'll create a bot that'll keep posting the same thing over and over again so you can feel like you're achieving something by beating yourself against the wall.
Bizarrely irrelevant to my stated position.SteveB said:Ah.... ye old--- I'm ignorant, and I like ignorance because ignorance makes me feel superior, like I actually know something that I don't actually know, but I feel good claiming it, to make others think I know what they don't know..... ruse.
Let me know how that works for you in another 100 years.
OK you have posted a list of evidences below, let's examine them.SteveB said:He already has proven his existence.
How many times did you need him to provide the best evidence of his existence that could be provided?
Or do you think you're special, and are entitled to more than everyone else was given?
The heavens, (stars, planets, space, etc, etc) exists, that we can both agree on. The heavens runs according to physics, I don't see anything other than awesome stuff, how does this proclaims god?SteveB said:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork.
2 Day unto day utters speech, And night unto night reveals knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language Where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line has gone out through all the earth, And their words to the end of the world.
Claiming that the universe is a creation of God is just that, a claim! You need evidence that the universe or anything contained within it is the produce of the divine. Just saying it's so does not make it so.SteveB said:19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
Attributing stuff to God is the claim you need to find evidence for, where is the evidence?SteveB said:“Nevertheless He did not leave Himself without witness, in that He did good, gave us rain from heaven and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.
Attributing stuff to God is the claim you need to find evidence for, where is the evidence?SteveB said:Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: 24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood[fn] every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”
This is just a list of things your attributing to god creating. Attributing stuff to god is the claim you need to find evidence for, where is the evidence?SteveB said:The cosmos, creation, food, gladness of heart, satisfaction of being, light, darkness, love, friendship, ..........
This is NOT evidence, this is just an unsubstantiated claim. You now need to find evidence for these claims before you can say they are true.SteveB said:He already has.
If you reject the evidence he's chosen to give us, that's on you, and evidence that you prefer your sin over the truth, as Jesus said.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
Just because stuff is written down does not make it a fact. Please explain why you think the contrary.SteveB said:It's actually a fact, which is why it was written in the first place.
Do you require to witness every happenstance before you are willing to believe something is true? No progress can ever be made beyond one generation if each has to 'rediscover the wheel' This is a bizarrely ridiculous argument.SteveB said:Well, since you weren't there to observe it, that means you're required to take that claim by faith, which would raise the question of your atheism. I.e., to believe, what nobody else alive today was present to witness, the testimony of others, makes you a believer in that which you don't know by first hand evidence.
Yes. How does that explain your analogy?SteveB said:It's not that complicated.
Have you ever done any of those activities?
Have you ever done anything for yourself, or has everything in your life been done for you?
Which false assertion did I make? I said that if you assert A=not A (i.e. "biblical logic is antithetical to worldly logic") you can justify any atrocity.Ah. So you can make false assertions, but not back them up.
Come on Algor!
Own your fraud with more integrity than this!!
I was quite clear about the logic of the Bible and the logic of the world.
You're just conflating ideas you're tripping over to win an argument you can never win.
Not because I'm so eloquent or logical, but because of the resurrection of Jesus.
If you think I've mistakenly characterized or evaded one of your questions, please do point it out.yeah, well..... you should've thought about that when you continued telling me that all my questions are strawmen, irrelevant, etc....
Well, I'm neither an Israeli, nor under the covenant of Moses.So, you are ignoring the larger part of the Bible?
First, they actually have to be genuine atrocities. I notice that you, and others here have ignored the real atrocities, and justified them in order to condemn God, and justify the wicked, and ungodly who slaughtered their children, abandoned their parental duties and responsibilities, murdered their fellow humans, sacrificed their children to false gods, which the bible says are demons, on metal arms heated to white hot, roasting them alive. So...... by all means,Obviously you are aware of all the teachings which will result in atrocities from the Old Testament.
And?Your limiting of the question shows that you are well aware of the nature of the Old Testament. How many people were killed because of "You shall not allow a witch to live"? Ah, but that isn't in the New Testament so it doesn't count.
Indeed! You're quite skilled at it.Obvious cherry-picking is obvious.
Stop.If you think I've mistakenly characterized or evaded one of your questions, please do point it out.
In the meantime you're the only one evading here.
I believe that's called a "flounce", combined with sexual taunting. A twofer.Stop.
Your ongoing willful and deliberate short term recollection practices shame and humiliate you. I'm done with it.
Let me know when you grow a pair, so we can actually engage, instead of this game you think works.
sigh.....Which false assertion did I make? I said that if you assert A=not A (i.e. "biblical logic is antithetical to worldly logic") you can justify any atrocity.
I don’t really think sensible people would debate that point, so you must have gotten confused somewhere.
Note that one can justify any atrocity using this line of reasoning.
Can you address the points made in the following that I posted earlier? You seem to have lost track of it.Only for people who do not follow the biblical edict to do what Jesus said.
This is identical to a college student's practice of either doing homework/exams/labs, or just talking about it, and never doing it.
For atheists who claim to have "tried it" but found, have been unable to demonstrate that they actually did what Jesus said.
He was quite clear---- Not everyone who calls me Lord will enter God's Kingdom. But only those who DO the Will of my Father who is in Heaven. Matthew 7:21
Jesus further said--- if anyone loves me, they will keep my teachings, and they will be loved by my Father, and we will come and make our home with them..... John 14:23
So, by all means.... please elaborate on what you think Confirmation Bias is.... It's my understanding that confirmation bias is a set of beliefs based on opinions only, which have no basis, or bearing on factual experience.
The Ten Commandments are in Exodus, and so are part of the Covenant of Moses. Do you consider yourself not bound by them? Can we trust anything you say if you are not bound by "You shall not bear false witness"? You might want to clarify your position here.Well, I'm neither an Israeli, nor under the covenant of Moses.
Obvious lead in to a No True Scotsman fallacy is obvious. You require a "genuine" atrocity, yet you do not supply any way to differentiate between a genuine atrocity and a non-genuine one. Obvious again, I'm afraid.First, they actually have to be genuine atrocities.
A lot of past Christians disagreed with you. They were acting on what the Old Testament said.I'm not commanded to kill witches.
On the contrary if god is in-fact real I most certainly do want to know that. If this is true, then come follow Jesus. The problem is in demonstrating the claim that he is real. You've got this backwards. We don't demonstrate God is real. He demonstrates himself to us as real and...forums.carm.org
Wanna try again?
This should be easy for you.
Not substantive to the point.From the teachings of Jesus (4 gospels), and the apostles (the letters, Acts, Revelation), what kinds of atrocities would I commit?
Here's an online bible, which has a really excellent search engine.
Speaking the truth?
Loving my enemies?
Praying for those who treat me with disrespect, like dirt, kill me?
Or blessing those who curse and verbally abuse me?
Come on Al.
Can you address the points made in the following that I posted earlier? You seem to have lost track of it.
Let's see. For one you have taken Matthew 7:21 out of context.
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Yes they do."Evildoers" are those who commit sin. They do sin. They do evil.
Again.... if you're going to rant about taking passages out of context, you're going to have to do a better job than this.What's more, regarding John 14:23: those who commit sin also do not "keep [His] teachings".
And?There are many Christians who commit sin. They are "evildoers".
And?They do not do "the will of [His] Father who is in heaven".
And?They do not "keep [His] teachings".
It's a pity you don't actually take into account the whole counsel of God's Word. You might actually learn something you've yet to see.Do you also count such Christians as "unable to demonstrate that they actually [do] what Jesus said"?
According to Romans 3:27-31 we read the following.The Ten Commandments are in Exodus, and so are part of the Covenant of Moses. Do you consider yourself not bound by them? Can we trust anything you say if you are not bound by "You shall not bear false witness"? You might want to clarify your position here.
I guess that means you're screwed. I'm Scottish by birth. So, you go right ahead and keep tripping over yourself.Obvious lead in to a No True Scotsman fallacy is obvious. You require a "genuine" atrocity, yet you do not supply any way to differentiate between a genuine atrocity and a non-genuine one. Obvious again, I'm afraid.
That's the rumor.Is killing the unborn a "genuine" atrocity? God killed every single unborn child on earth with his flood, which drowned all the pregnant women. Are you going to try to tell me that His action was not a "genuine" atrocity.
I'm not the one having a problem here. It's quite clear that you've never actually paid any attention to what the bible says, except for those parts that you use to justify yourself before God.My apologies if you are not a Biblical literalist, in that case He killed all the unborn children in a large area of the Near East. Not quite as bad, but still an atrocity.
I'm not following past Christians.A lot of past Christians disagreed with you. They were acting on what the Old Testament said.