What is Wrong with God choosing who He saves?

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guest1

Guest
PeanutGallery said:
UE for what purpose? Service not salvation as mentioned in OP.
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
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Which once again proves UE.
 
A

American Gothic

Well-known member
shnarkle said:
Christ clearly points out that he can only do what is given to him from the father.
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Those in Jesus were given to Him by the Father.
Jesus doesn't know when He will get to fetch His bride to be (it's when the Father says it's time), so within God's Tri-unity the different persons don't have to know everything or know equally.
 
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G

guest1

Guest
zerinus said:
Omniscience can make choices. Throughout the Bible omniscience is making choices.
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character traits , qualities or attributes do not make choices. Persons make choices and God is Tri- Personal as a Being. So God makes choices.

next…….
 
A

American Gothic

Well-known member
zerinus said:
He treats all nations (and individuals) the same. You are misunderstanding the scriptures.
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Israel is a holder of unconditional covenants and promises from God that Gentiles don't have equally, but in Messiah can be brought near to the commonwealth of Israel and benefit. (Eph. 2)
 
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zerinus

zerinus

Well-known member
American Gothic said:
Israel is a holder of numerous unconditional covenants and promises from God.
My Japhetic peoples (or any other Gentiles) don't have that equally, but in Messiah can be brought near to the commonwealth of Israel and benefit.
(Eph. 2)
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God blessed Abraham, because of his righteousness, with a chosen posterity:

Genesis 26:

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Deuteronomy 4:

37 And because he loved thy fathers, therefore he chose their seed after them, and brought thee out in his sight with his mighty power out of Egypt;

Deuteronomy 10:

15 Only the Lord had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.

And the promise was that through his descendants all the families of the earth should be blessed (with the gospel of salvation):

Genesis 22:

18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Genesis 26:

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

Genesis 28:

14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

If you think that is some kind of favouritism, you are mistaken.
 
A

American Gothic

Well-known member
zerinus said:
God blessed Abraham, because of his righteousness, with a chosen posterity:
And the promise was that through his descendants all the families of the earth should be blessed (with the gospel of salvation)
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God declared Abraham to be righteous, and considered him so in His sight. (Gen 15, Ps 106, Rom 4)
The just(ified) live by Faith. (Habakkuk 2)
No doubt Abraham was a very good dude, but his best deeds are as filthy rags compared to the Righteousness and Holiness of God - as are ours.
God chose to bless Abraham with material wealth even though Abraham went to Egypt during famine instead of trusting God for provision in the Land.

Only God went thru the pieces of animals (Gen 15) - God's covenant with and promises to Abraham are unconditional.
 
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zerinus

zerinus

Well-known member
civic said:
No your statement is nonsensical. Choices are made by people/persons not by traits.
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God is a person, not a trait. “Omniscience can mak a choice” was not my phraseology, it was shnarkle’s phrase. I used it because I understand what he means by it, and I don’t have a problem with it. He didn’t mean by it that “traits can make a choice,” and neither do I.
 
G

guest1

Guest
zerinus said:
God is a person, not a trait. “Omniscience can mak a choice” was not my phraseology, it was shnarkle’s phrase. I used it because I understand what he means by it, and I don’t have a problem with it. He didn’t mean by it that “traits can make a choice,” and neither do I.
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Ok thanks for clarifying that Z
 
zerinus

zerinus

Well-known member
American Gothic said:
God declared Abraham to be righteous. (Gen 15, Ps 106, Rom 4)
No doubt Abraham was a very good dude, but his best deeds are as filthy rags compared to the Righteousness and Holiness of God - as are ours.

Only God went thru the pieces of animals - God's covenant with and promises to Abraham were unconditional.
God blessed Abraham with wealth even thought Abraham went to Egypt during famine instead of trusting God for provision in the Land.
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Sorry, I believe the word of God more:

Genesis 22:

16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Genesis 26:

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

James 2:

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
Rockson said:
Of course there is nothing wrong with God choosing who he'll save but he's already told us who he will. Those who believe in Christ.
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The Bible NEVER teaches that God "chooses those because they believe in Christ".
And if that were true (which it isn't), then God wouldn't be "choosing", He would simply and PASSIVELY recognizing those who allegedly fulfilled "conditions".

God chose the elect PRIOR to them doing anything.
God has emphasized that MANY times.

It seems a very bizarre message to send if His "choice" was based on something man did "later", AFTER God chose them.
 
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