What is Wrong with God choosing who He saves?
- Thread starter American Gothic
- Start date
Carbon
Super Member
Yes He has and they were chose before the foundation of the world not based on anything they would do but of God's choice He decided to have mercy on some.
American Gothic
Well-known member
Israel far and away denied that Jesus was God, and still do.
As a People, they don't know their God that much at this point, if they believe in Him at all.
That will change because they are a unique People that God chose for Himself, and He always keeps His promises. (Deut 7:6)
zerinus
Well-known member
Romans 10:
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
They couldn’t have a “zeal of God” if they were totally ignorant of him.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Nothing, in fact thats how it works ! Thats the only way a person will be or can be saved, God must have chosen that person in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:1-14
American Gothic
Well-known member
I know of You, I've engaged with You some - I don't really KNOW you
God tried to talk to them directly at Mt. Sinai, but they said "no, speak to us thru Moses".
God desired a Personal relationship with them, and they turned it down.
By and large, they still are turning that down even though that's what God still wants.
Like many deceived people they will want the Religion, not the relationship.
Until God removes the blinders and graciously gives them the gift of Faith.
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zerinus
Well-known member
Nobody knows God to perfectness. Moses knew him better than most, but still not to perfectness. No degree of the knowledge of God should be discounted, discredited, despised, or rejected just because it is not perfect. If they had a “zeal of God,” that is still better than no knowledge at all, and should not in any way be denigrated.
American Gothic
Well-known member
Sure, it's cool to certain degree
but zeal for God does not save - only belief and trust in Messiah and His work on your behalf does.
zerinus
Well-known member
Not according to Paul in Romans 6–16, which I had quoted in Post #41 of this thread. You don’t even need to be a Christian to be saved, provided you do what is good and right in the sight of God out of a good conscience, as Paul states in that scripture. If your religious pride, arrogance, or hypocrisy leads you to actively reject Christ after you have had a proper chance to receive him (as the Jewish leaders of the time did), that is a different thing entirely. We are not talking about that. But according to the Bible, anybody who has an honest belief in God, and lives an honest and a good life out of a good conscience (be they Jew or Gentle), will be saved, even if they have never heard of Jesus Christ. That is the biblical teaching.
American Gothic
Well-known member
Nope.
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zerinus
Well-known member
Argue that with Paul, not me! I didn’t say that, he did!
American Gothic
Well-known member
Despite how good they were or how hard they tried, spiritually dead people will not have a place with God in Eternity.
"The work of God is this: to believe in the One he has sent." - Jesus (John 6)
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zerinus
Well-known member
Sorry, your word against God’s. I choose God’s.
American Gothic
Well-known member
God can put His Spirit within anyone, and give them the gift of eternal Life, if He chooses too - if that is what you mean.
Anyone and everyone that God chooses to save, will surely be saved.
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zerinus
Well-known member
Not quite. What I mean is that everyone has a divinely given conscience, which enables them to discern between good and evil, right and wrong. The Spirit of Christ lighteth every man that comes into the world, not just some men (John 1:9). Everyone also has a divinely given moral agency, a “freewill” if you like, that enables them to freely choose between good and evil, right and wrong. Everyone also has enough witness to believe in the existence of a God (Romans 1:20). And the Bible tells us that on judgement day, they will be judged by this criteria, according to how they have acted according to this knowledge: “they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation” (John 5:28-29). That is the biblical teaching.
American Gothic
Well-known member
God gave Adam and Eve the chance to live by "knowledge of Good and Evil" if that is what they preferred -
didn't work out too well for them, hasn't worked out too well for Humanity since.
No one has been is or will be saved thru that scenario.
The Just have been are and will be graciously saved thru, and live by, Faith.
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zerinus
Well-known member
You are questioning the word of God, not me:
Matthew 25:
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations [and religions]: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Nothing abut “faith” is mentioned anywhere. I didn’t say that, Jesus did.
American Gothic
Well-known member
"by grace, thru faith, and not of yourselves" "not a result of works"
I didn't say that, Paul did.
And thru Paul, Jesus did.
The Righteous on the right would already be given the gift of eternal Life.
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"
Those on the right have no worry of damnation.
It says when this is taking place. "He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him"
None of this applies to me - the Wife of Messiah will already have been ruling and reigning with Him at this point.
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zerinus
Well-known member
So who are those “nations” to whom Jesus said:
Matthew 25:
34 . . . Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Did they come from another planet or something?
Theo1689
Well-known member
Um, they did good works BECAUSE they were saved (Eph. 2:10, Phil. 2:13)
They didn’t get saved BY doing good works.
Why do you keep running away from passages like Eph. 2:8,9 Tit. 3:5, 2Tim. 1:9, Rom. 4:1-6, Rom. 11:5-6, etc. etc.?