What is Wrong with God choosing who He saves?

[Kampioen]

But you're arguing a straw-man!
Yes, everyone is sure they know what the Bible teaches.
And yes, many people are wrong, despite their "certainty".
This does NOT mean that nobody can know what the Bible teaches.

Do you know why?
Because WORDS... HAVE... MEANING.
And the whole PURPOSE of language is to convey facts and ideas.
But you seem to ignore that.

Why are some people wrong about what the Bible teaches? Many reasons:
1) They don't believe all the Bible, they ignore the parts they don't like (such as God's wrath). I don't do that.
2) They have external sources other than the Bible that colour their interpretation (such as LDS or JW's). I don't do that.
3) They allow their feelings or desires ("I don't want to think I'm not in control over my fate"), or have their own personal images of what they think God SHOULD be like ("I think God should treat everyone the same way"). I don't do that.
4) They project modern understandings onto ancient texts. I don't do that.

I'm sure there are other reasons, and you may want to believe I'm guilty of one of them. Fair enough. Bring one up, and we can discuss that.

But you seem to continue to be claiming that "nobody can understand the text of the Bible", and that's simply ridiculous. And you don't want to actually discuss the TEXT of the Bible, to see whether that's true or not.

Let's start slowly....

"Jesus wept". Do you think we cannot understand that?

Jesus died on the cross. Everyone (other than Muslims) understands what that means.

The ultimate cause, certainly.
But that doesn't negate the responsibility and consequence of others CHOOSING to misinterpret the Bible for those various reasons.

Ok, but your view has God predetermining the response to what we are responsible for, and why we believe differently.

But all our responsibilities are very fitting of libertarianism. You respond very libertarianly despite the idea that you believe your very remarks are unconditionally predetermined.

 

[Theo1689]

Ok, but your view has God predetermining the response to what we are responsible for, and why we believe differently.

So what?
It's what the Bible teaches.
So why do you keep bringing up this worthless straw-man?

But all our responsibilities are very fitting of libertarianism.

That's nice.
I'm not a libertarian.

You respond very libertarianly despite the idea that you believe your very remarks are unconditionally predetermined.

Maybe you should stop obsessing on HOW (you "think") I'm responding, and instead concentrate on WHAT I'm posting (ie. the Bible).

 

[Carbon]

First your statement is a little bit slippery.

Of course there is nothing wrong with God choosing who he'll save but he's already told us who he will. Those who believe in Christ.

I say this because you leave an impression that non-Calvinists hold that God doesn't have the choice. He does but he's revealed just what it's based upon.

That's that blessed assurance Rockson. When one is regenerated, and therefore believes, we know we can rest in that promise that we are saved and sealed.
But your believing a strange gospel, from another source besides God's word. It's a salvation by works, which is no salvation at all, just another road to Rome.
You should consider stopping with preaching a false gospel.

 

[Theo1689]

Of course there is nothing wrong with God choosing who he'll save but he's already told us who he will. Those who believe in Christ.

I say this because you leave an impression that non-Calvinists hold that God doesn't have the choice. He does but he's revealed just what it's based upon.

Non-Calvinists may sincerely believe that God is "choosing" in that scenario, but it's really not true. If you're saying that God chooses those who believe in Christ (outside of God's control), and once they choose to believe, then God "chooses" them, that's not a "choice".

If a high school phys. ed. teacher wants to start a baseball team, and says, "You guys determine for yourself who is going to be on the team, and when you've come to an agreement, that will be the team I "choose", that's not a real choice. The players are choosing, not the coach.

And in your scenario, the sinners are choosing, not God.

 

[Carbon]

And in your scenario, the sinners are choosing, not God.

But that's exactly what he is teaching.