What Is Wrong With the Church of Christ?

[Kade Rystalmane]

This folder was empty so I thought I'd put something in it. What is the Church of Christ and what do they believe that is sinful?

 

[Beloved Daughter]

It's hard to tell because there are overlaps between local congregations.

I found this from Wiki:

Churches of Christ - Wikipedia

There are people who say they have an element that is cultic. The Millerites. etc.

Their soteriology is questionable.

The need for water baptism is a sticking point for them.

They don't allow any musical instruments in their services.

I personally see some biblical problems, but I wouldn't go so far as to part ways. Charity in all things.

 

[Kade Rystalmane]

It's hard to tell because there are overlaps between local congregations.

I found this from Wiki...

I take from this that you have not had much personal interaction with them?

 

[Beloved Daughter]

I take from this that you have not had much personal interaction with them?

Some, but not near enough to be expert. I have issues with the musical instruments and insistence on water baptism. But I would never say that they aren't fellow Christians and I don't believe they are unsaved. That's not my call.

 

[Kade Rystalmane]

Some, but not near enough to be expert. I have issues with the musical instruments and insistence on water baptism. But I would never say that they aren't fellow Christians and I don't believe they are unsaved. That's not my call.

Gotcha. Thanks for your input.

 

[SteveB]

This folder was empty so I thought I'd put something in it. What is the Church of Christ and what do they believe that is sinful?

My experience from 41-1/2 years ago was that they would not pray with me because I had not been baptized "in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins." Acts 2:38.

Beyond that, they were generally pleasant people to hang out with.

I then tried going to a college which was affiliated with the church of Christ.

They essentially sent me packing because I had been attending Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, with Chuck Smith.

Apparently the college people don't believe that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are in action today (well, in 1979-81).

It was an interesting experience. I pretty much just walked away from them and continued my affiliation with Calvary chapel.
After all, I'd been miraculously healed from a gunshot wound to my throat and the doctor who had done the surgery, and follow up had testified to it, adding that he was not a believer in God.

I found it quite hard to take them seriously after that.

So....
I suppose that is all I can think about this issue.

 

[Kade Rystalmane]

My experience from 41-1/2 years ago was that they would not pray with me because I had not been baptized "in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins." Acts 2:38.

Beyond that, they were generally pleasant people to hang out with.

I then tried going to a college which was affiliated with the church of Christ.

They essentially sent me packing because I had been attending Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, with Chuck Smith.

Apparently the college people don't believe that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are in action today (well, in 1979-81).

It was an interesting experience. I pretty much just walked away from them and continued my affiliation with Calvary chapel.
After all, I'd been miraculously healed from a gunshot wound to my throat and the doctor who had done the surgery, and follow up had testified to it, adding that he was not a believer in God.

I found it quite hard to take them seriously after that.

So....
I suppose that is all I can think about this issue.

I appreciate your thoughts. Thank you!

 

[SteveB]

I appreciate your thoughts. Thank you!

You're welcome.

I just realized that I missed something.....
At the time they told me they would not pray with me, I'd previously (probably about 9 months before-- give or take a couple of weeks) been baptized "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" as stated by Jesus, in Matthew 28:18-20.
We actually got in a discussion about it, with me stating--- But Jesus said that's how we're to be baptized. They said it didn't matter, Peter said Acts 2:38's statement.
I think that's what the final straw for me was. It wasn't good enough for me to be obedient to Jesus. I had to instead be obedient to Peter.

 

[Kade Rystalmane]

You're welcome.

I just realized that I missed something.....
At the time they told me they would not pray with me, I'd previously (probably about 9 months before-- give or take a couple of weeks) been baptized "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" as stated by Jesus, in Matthew 28:18-20.
We actually got in a discussion about it, with me stating--- But Jesus said that's how we're to be baptized. They said it didn't matter, Peter said Acts 2:38's statement.
I think that's what the final straw for me was. It wasn't good enough for me to be obedient to Jesus. I had to instead be obedient to Peter.

Gotcha.

 

[UncleAbee]

It's hard to tell because there are overlaps between local congregations.

I found this from Wiki:

Churches of Christ - Wikipedia

There are people who say they have an element that is cultic. The Millerites. etc.

Their soteriology is questionable.

The need for water baptism is a sticking point for them.

They don't allow any musical instruments in their services.

I personally see some biblical problems, but I wouldn't go so far as to part ways. Charity in all things.

I am a member of the Churches of Christ found in that link. I'll answer the points above and you all can ask me whatever you want. We do not have a monopoly on the name "church of Christ." Therefore you will run into many groups that call themselves that with a variety of doctrines. The ones that the link refers to is the group born of out of the 19th century restoration (Stone-Campbell) movement that my congregation is a part of. When I say "we" or "our" I am referring to that group.

Soteriology - We believe that water baptism is a necessary part of salvation. To be saved one must hear the gospel, believe what they heard, repent of sins, confess Christ as savior, and be baptized for the remission of sins. Afterwards one must continue in the faith. Salvation is seen as a process. You are saved, are being saved, and will be saved in the future when Christ comes.

Musical instruments - Their is a divide on this in our church. We have congregations in my area that use instruments and others that do not. My congregation does not use instruments. All singing is congregational. The non instrumental churches do not associate with instrumental churches.

COC's are not generally cultic. Allegiance is not given to any person. No person is seen as God's special emissary. Members are free to come and go as they please. I have personally known of many who left the COC for other churches or became atheists. No one is pressured to stay. There is a disfellowship function though. Members are discouraged from social interaction with disfellowshipped members. This does not include family relationships or social interactions on the job. Most ignore this advice though and do what they want to. If you leave, you leave and that's just the way it is. There are some more extreme congregations though that do pressure members. This may be where some see COC's as cultic. My congregation doesn't associate with those more extreme elements. We see them as too far right.

Personally, I exist in a moderately conservative COC but I am more liberal minded. I have lots of contrasting opinions from my brethren. I find that our leadership is pretty conservative but the members are more liberal. I also find that the older I get the less I am concerned about doctrine and the more I am concerned about how we treat one another.

I am curious about the OP though. What do you all see as problems with the COC?

 

[UncleAbee]

You're welcome.

I just realized that I missed something.....
At the time they told me they would not pray with me, I'd previously (probably about 9 months before-- give or take a couple of weeks) been baptized "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" as stated by Jesus, in Matthew 28:18-20.
We actually got in a discussion about it, with me stating--- But Jesus said that's how we're to be baptized. They said it didn't matter, Peter said Acts 2:38's statement.
I think that's what the final straw for me was. It wasn't good enough for me to be obedient to Jesus. I had to instead be obedient to Peter.

That's bad teaching in the COC's. Actually, nothing needs to be said during baptism. The verbal language is so the ones in the audience know what is going on.

 

[Kade Rystalmane]

I am curious about the OP though. What do you all see as problems with the COC?

I didn't say I did. I was simply asking what others thought was sinful about the church of Christ.

 

[SteveB]

That's bad teaching in the COC's. Actually, nothing needs to be said during baptism. The verbal language is so the ones in the audience know what is going on.

Be that as it may.... that was their reaction to me.
I found it sad and frustrating.
The irony was that I was enjoying the fellowship, as it seemed, were some others, but when we went to finish a conversation, and I said--- let's pray--- those who thought themselves leaders told me--- well, you weren't baptized "in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins", so we can't pray WITH you. We'll pray FOR you though.

At that point, I knew I needed to get back to the church I'd previously attended, so I wouldn't have people telling me how unrighteous I was, while they were more righteous.
Ironically, only a few weeks previous, I'd been baptized in the Jordan River, in Israel, just a few dozen yards above the Gallilee.

 

[UncleAbee]

I didn't say I did. I was simply asking what others thought was sinful about the church of Christ.

Oh. I am curious to hear that was well.

 

[UncleAbee]

Be that as it may.... that was their reaction to me.
I found it sad and frustrating.
The irony was that I was enjoying the fellowship, as it seemed, were some others, but when we went to finish a conversation, and I said--- let's pray--- those who thought themselves leaders told me--- well, you weren't baptized "in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins", so we can't pray WITH you. We'll pray FOR you though.

At that point, I knew I needed to get back to the church I'd previously attended, so I wouldn't have people telling me how unrighteous I was, while they were more righteous.
Ironically, only a few weeks previous, I'd been baptized in the Jordan River, in Israel, just a few dozen yards above the Gallilee.

Sorry you had that experience but that's how some COC members are. It can be frustrating. As a church we're making progress but still have a ways to go.

 

[SteveB]

Sorry you had that experience but that's how some COC members are. It can be frustrating. As a church we're making progress but still have a ways to go.

That took place in July 1979.
I walked away, and have no problem with it any more.

As far as I'm concerned, as long as you're actually following Jesus, and not an institutional ideology of Jesus, I'm good.

 

[Thistle]

It's hard to tell because there are overlaps between local congregations.

I found this from Wiki:

Churches of Christ - Wikipedia

There are people who say they have an element that is cultic. The Millerites. etc.

I believe that William Miller was a Baptist not from the Church of Christ. Most Church of Christ members I know consider the ICOC cultic.

Their soteriology is questionable.

The need for water baptism is a sticking point for them.

They don't allow any musical instruments in their services.

I personally see some biblical problems, but I wouldn't go so far as to part ways. Charity in all things.

I think you would have liked Carl Ketcherside in his later days.

 

[Beloved Daughter]

I believe that William Miller was a Baptist not from the Church of Christ. Most Church of Christ members I know consider the ICOC cultic.

I think you would have liked Carl Ketcherside in his later days.

I do think that I used the wrong label. Thanks for bringing that up.

What I should have said was the Campbellites

Campbellism, Church of Christ - Understanding Theological SystemsUnderstanding Theological Systems

Thanks again, I sincerely appreciate it.

 

[Beloved Daughter]

I am a member of the Churches of Christ found in that link. I'll answer the points above and you all can ask me whatever you want. We do not have a monopoly on the name "church of Christ." Therefore you will run into many groups that call themselves that with a variety of doctrines. The ones that the link refers to is the group born of out of the 19th century restoration (Stone-Campbell) movement that my congregation is a part of. When I say "we" or "our" I am referring to that group.

Soteriology - We believe that water baptism is a necessary part of salvation. To be saved one must hear the gospel, believe what they heard, repent of sins, confess Christ as savior, and be baptized for the remission of sins. Afterwards one must continue in the faith. Salvation is seen as a process. You are saved, are being saved, and will be saved in the future when Christ comes.

Musical instruments - Their is a divide on this in our church. We have congregations in my area that use instruments and others that do not. My congregation does not use instruments. All singing is congregational. The non instrumental churches do not associate with instrumental churches.

COC's are not generally cultic. Allegiance is not given to any person. No person is seen as God's special emissary. Members are free to come and go as they please. I have personally known of many who left the COC for other churches or became atheists. No one is pressured to stay. There is a disfellowship function though. Members are discouraged from social interaction with disfellowshipped members. This does not include family relationships or social interactions on the job. Most ignore this advice though and do what they want to. If you leave, you leave and that's just the way it is. There are some more extreme congregations though that do pressure members. This may be where some see COC's as cultic. My congregation doesn't associate with those more extreme elements. We see them as too far right.

Personally, I exist in a moderately conservative COC but I am more liberal minded. I have lots of contrasting opinions from my brethren. I find that our leadership is pretty conservative but the members are more liberal. I also find that the older I get the less I am concerned about doctrine and the more I am concerned about how we treat one another.

I am curious about the OP though. What do you all see as problems with the COC?

Thank you for your helpful reply. I still have concerns about the two issues I stated, but I would not separate from Christians who believe as you do.

 

[Thistle]

I do think that I used the wrong label. Thanks for bringing that up.

What I should have said was the Campbellites

Campbellism, Church of Christ - Understanding Theological SystemsUnderstanding Theological Systems

Thanks again, I sincerely appreciate it.

Please no. Campbellite is a derogatory term, although many seem not to understand that. One of their core principles is that naming a church for anyone but Christ is a positive sin. Calling them by Alexander Campbell's name is not unlike combatants in the crusades making their adversaries deny their faith before running them through with a sword. I exaggerate but you get the idea.