What its like being LDS, inside.

Markk

Super Member
Being LDS is both easy and difficult…and this thread is based on my 25 years or so on forums like this. It is easy being LDS in the sense that you are told what to believe, how to act, what to wear, and what to believe in regards to talking point theology. It is difficult in that, heart wise, you know it it a bunch of nonsense. You know as a Mormon you can not be a God, just like the Christian God.

There is no doubt in my mind, that the LDS posters here struggle in their hearts, and want so bad to make Mormonism work for them in their lives. That is why they are here. If they were complete and satisfied in their belief and faith they would not be here…I know this in that this very desire, to actually know that what I was taught as a Mormon was not as DB writes, “a bunch or hooey.” It’s a real heart thing and struggle, a ver personal struggle.

And this is very important to understand if you have never been LDS… that LDS members here are not talking to us, they are talking to themselves…trying unwittingly to strengthen their testimony. You don’t see them trying to promote JS and BY…what you see is they are trying so hard, and bless their hearts, to bend and twist the Biblical Jesus into a warped and honestly perverted theology. Trying hard to somehow over ride th e mess of JS and BY.

JS was a womanizer…there is absolutely no way to get around that if one does a honest study. Read section 132 of the D&C, and do a little research why it was written. Emma, Joseph’s wife wanted to have a fling with William Law, in that Joseph was intent on having Jane Law as either a wife or consort.

BY was a bully, starting distillery’s and wine vineyards…working with an apostle in having a gambling house so it would sell his liquor…and stealing tithe money from the church to finance these types of things,

You don’t see the LDS folks here promoting these truths, but what you see is heart felt attempt to some how make the Biblical Jesus fit somehow into all of this confusion and madness. And that is why we, as Christian’s and ex-Mormons need to pray for these folks, to have the strength to test their faith and to be strong enough to look at it for what it is.
 
Being LDS is both easy and difficult…
But not for you. I sense your essay is an attempt to establish your credibility having not read it in full, but let's do be clear, you are not LDS and therefore do not hold LDS views but instead have an agenda to push which is specifically against our church. As such, you can only be viewed as a hostile witness who made choices that must be defended.
It is difficult in that, heart wise, you know it it a bunch of nonsense. You know as a Mormon you can not be a God, just like the Christian God.
LOL. From your own personal view maybe, but you can't talk for anyone else.
There is no doubt in my mind, that the LDS posters here struggle in their hearts,
But let's keep in mind that all of that is in your own mind. It has nothing to do with reality.
That is why they are here.
The reality is, we are here to defend our beliefs. If they weren't being attacked we wouldn't be here. So, the only reason we are here is because you and people like you are here. What kind of religion is it that feels they need to go around attacking other people's beliefs? That doesn't seem to be very Christian, IMO.
If they were complete and satisfied in their belief and faith they would not be here…
That argument assaults the reason you are here.
I know this in that this very desire, to actually know that what I was taught as a Mormon was not as DB writes, “a bunch or hooey.”
LOL. Your perspective as a ex-Mormon opens that door. Everything you say about what we believe must be questioned. Not doing so just means the person swallowing your tripe is only looking for justification and not answers - birds of a feather...
And this is very important to understand if you have never been LDS… that LDS members here are not talking to us, they are talking to themselves…
Well, you are right about part of that. We're definitely not talking to you or your ilk. Our rebuttals aren't meant for you all. It will only fall on deaf ears and blind eyes. But others who don't post here, who go to the internet for answers to the very questions you pose, may land here and they might be looking for answers, for reasonable discourse. That's not something you all are interested it, but they might be looking for our response and it is to them we post our responses. If there was no response, they could only assume that we have none and we cannot let that be the case. So, you all are actually helping our cause, not hurting it. If there was reasonable discourse and you all actually had something to offer in discussion it might not be so easy for us, but that'll never happen...
 
You don’t see them trying to promote JS and BY…
I don't really think that should be our objective. It's not the individual that's important. Their message is and we endlessly promote their message because it is the truth. God's kingdom has once again been restored on the earth with the sole purpose of ushering in the second coming of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.
what you see is they are trying so hard, and bless their hearts, to bend and twist the Biblical Jesus into a warped and honestly perverted theology.
Funny how that manages to result in a church that resembles the New Testament church better than any of your hundreds of not thousands of different churches. But, okay, if you say so...
JS was a womanizer…there is absolutely no way to get around that if one does a honest study.
And so begins the mudslinging all the while ignoring the fact that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob all had many wives. The very patriarchs of their religion through whom they become heirs of salvation. It's okay for them, but not for us. They are still prophets, Moses being among these "womanizers", but not Joseph. Sounds more like mob rule to me. God can't even get a word in edgewise with these guys.
Read section 132 of the D&C, and do a little research why it was written. Emma, Joseph’s wife wanted to have a fling with William Law, in that Joseph was intent on having Jane Law as either a wife or consort.
Hopefully your readers will do a little more research than you did. A note to lurkers, if you want to do research, I suggest you consider both sides of the story. Don't rely on ex-Mormon criticism alone. The William Law issue was a scandal, but the evidence, IMO, does not support this claim. In fact, it's a stretch to call it the source or cause for any scripture. The fact is, and this is common sense. If eternal marriage exists, then polygamy must also exist. You'd have to give this a lot of thought to understand it.

Let's assume for argument's sake that eternal marriage exists. Meaning that when a husband and a wife, a man and a woman, get married it is for eternity. What happens when one spouse passes away and the surviving spouse gets married again? That is a conundrum that must be overcome. What happens when a wife dies in childbirth leaving the child in the father's care and the father remarries? What happens if that happens over and over again which was not that uncommon just 200 years ago. So the idea of one man and one wife becomes complicated in an eternal sense. And if the marriage was intended to be eternal then it seems reasonable that all of the marriages would have been eternal. Why would marrying another wife automatically expunged the previous wife so that she no longer has any part in the eternities with her husband? That creates a situation where those who have passed on can't do anything about it. We really believe that marriage must be performed on the Earth and cannot be performed in heaven. That's what Jesus said. we may not understand it but that doesn't change its validity.

The alternative is that we will be single forever. And most people aren't willing to accept that either. Is a struggle, in my opinion, to believe that our relationships here on Earth are temporary that we're here just to provide companionship in this life and then we move on to other things in the next. Some of us really love our spouses and would like to spend eternity as a married couple.

I'm just arguing the idea that polygamy has a valid position in the kingdom of God. It is not for everyone. I know a lot of couples that when one's spouse passes away the other follows shortly after. These are usually couples who have been married for a long time and have reached the age where they have no one depending on them and they literally came to depend on each other and being alone was difficult.

People may disagree with that but that doesn't mean that it isn't so. The point is eternal marriage makes the case for polygamy. I don't know how we can avoid that conclusion. So in order to get rid of polygamy we would have to get rid of eternal marriage. And to get rid of eternal marriage would mean to get rid of the promises God made to Abraham. Specifically, that his seed would be as numberless as the sands of the sea shore and the stars in the heavens. That, IMO, is an invitation to do what God is doing. If he had left that promise adjust the sands of the seashore one could make an argument that it's just for this Earth. But when he added the stars in the heavens. It seems to be an unlimited and off world, as in other worlds, posterity.

That, IMO, is the source for a D&C section 132.
 
BY was a bully, starting distillery’s and wine vineyards…working with an apostle in having a gambling house so it would sell his liquor…and stealing tithe money from the church to finance these types of things,
Your opinion about the man doesn't change the fact that he colonized almost the entire Western United States. He had a church to run with no income. The man was a genius. The people that followed Moses around in the wilderness probably thought he was a bully as well.
 
You don’t see the LDS folks here promoting these truths
That's because they're your personal opinions. Truth has little to do with it.
but what you see is heart felt attempt to some how make the Biblical Jesus fit somehow into all of this confusion and madness.
Along those lines, what we don't see is our critics making any effort to make the biblical Jesus fit any of their theology. We must accept their opinion. And like your essay here, we must also accept their opinion about what we believe. And that's a bunch of hooey.
And that is why we, as Christian’s and ex-Mormons need to pray for these folks
Well, for sure we can use all the prayers we can get. And I can assure you that we pray for you all as well. But while you're at it you might as well ask for some help on how you might address the inconsistencies that you have between your religion and the biblical text.
 
But not for you. I sense your essay is an attempt to establish your credibility having not read it in full, but let's do be clear, you are not LDS and therefore do not hold LDS views but instead have an agenda to push which is specifically against our church. As such, you can only be viewed as a hostile witness who made choices that must be defended.

LOL. From your own personal view maybe, but you can't talk for anyone else.

But let's keep in mind that all of that is in your own mind. It has nothing to do with reality.

The reality is, we are here to defend our beliefs. If they weren't being attacked we wouldn't be here. So, the only reason we are here is because you and people like you are here. What kind of religion is it that feels they need to go around attacking other people's beliefs? That doesn't seem to be very Christian, IMO.

That argument assaults the reason you are here.

LOL. Your perspective as a ex-Mormon opens that door. Everything you say about what we believe must be questioned. Not doing so just means the person swallowing your tripe is only looking for justification and not answers - birds of a feather...

Well, you are right about part of that. We're definitely not talking to you or your ilk. Our rebuttals aren't meant for you all. It will only fall on deaf ears and blind eyes. But others who don't post here, who go to the internet for answers to the very questions you pose, may land here and they might be looking for answers, for reasonable discourse. That's not something you all are interested it, but they might be looking for our response and it is to them we post our responses. If there was no response, they could only assume that we have none and we cannot let that be the case. So, you all are actually helping our cause, not hurting it. If there was reasonable discourse and you all actually had something to offer in discussion it might not be so easy for us, but that'll never happen...
But Markk WAS LDS for 40 years and has a lot of Mormon writings at his disposal, in his library. So, he knows first hand what it was like to be a Mormon. He can look at both sides now.
 
Being LDS is both easy and difficult…and this thread is based on my 25 years or so on forums like this. It is easy being LDS in the sense that you are told what to believe, how to act, what to wear, and what to believe in regards to talking point theology. It is difficult in that, heart wise, you know it it a bunch of nonsense. You know as a Mormon you can not be a God, just like the Christian God.

There is no doubt in my mind, that the LDS posters here struggle in their hearts, and want so bad to make Mormonism work for them in their lives. That is why they are here. If they were complete and satisfied in their belief and faith they would not be here…I know this in that this very desire, to actually know that what I was taught as a Mormon was not as DB writes, “a bunch or hooey.” It’s a real heart thing and struggle, a ver personal struggle.

And this is very important to understand if you have never been LDS… that LDS members here are not talking to us, they are talking to themselves…trying unwittingly to strengthen their testimony. You don’t see them trying to promote JS and BY…what you see is they are trying so hard, and bless their hearts, to bend and twist the Biblical Jesus into a warped and honestly perverted theology. Trying hard to somehow over ride th e mess of JS and BY.

JS was a womanizer…there is absolutely no way to get around that if one does a honest study. Read section 132 of the D&C, and do a little research why it was written. Emma, Joseph’s wife wanted to have a fling with William Law, in that Joseph was intent on having Jane Law as either a wife or consort.

BY was a bully, starting distillery’s and wine vineyards…working with an apostle in having a gambling house so it would sell his liquor…and stealing tithe money from the church to finance these types of things,

You don’t see the LDS folks here promoting these truths, but what you see is heart felt attempt to some how make the Biblical Jesus fit somehow into all of this confusion and madness. And that is why we, as Christian’s and ex-Mormons need to pray for these folks, to have the strength to test their faith and to be strong enough to look at it for what it is.
Very insightful, Markk. You posted the following on here about 5 years ago. I saved it:

Hey Bonnie, what i am about to write is very important to understand about LDS folks.

If we are going to use the "word" admonish, it needs to be qualified. Mormons generally are good people, like most Christians...folks just trying to deal with life the best they can. It is not like there are these arch-villain type of teachers teaching the folks what to say. Mormons all the way from the top down simply do not have the answers, nor are they equipped to deal with question that are beyond the "talking point theology" we were instructed in. There is nothing deep or exhaustive about LDS theology. I have a few LDS commentary and they are a joke...there is no inductive reasoning within them.

if anything they are instructed more o walk away from a debate than to engage. Back in the day , about 10-15 years ago there was a forum one could debate the top LDS apologist...folks like Daniel Peterson, Ben McGuire, Lou Midgely, and others. These men and women had no better answers than the folks we engage with here. Like those here, most often it came down to ad hom remarks to avoid a direct objective conversation. My current request for a conversation about the BoM standing alone, would be dodged just as it is here.

Of all the Mormons I have debated with, which are many over the years, including those I mentioned above and more...the most open and honest apologist was, and you know him, Daniel MaClellan. At least he makes you dig in and think out your arguments in many cases, and he in one of few that actually know what the Christian faith teaches and what be basically believe.

those days are gone, some fired from their position a the NMI at BYU. The churches "try" at apologetic's failed miserably, the GA reeled them in and there is no longer a discussion with these folks.

My point is that LDS theology is "shallow"...it is based on bits and pieces of truth mixed with JS home made theology that has absolutely no roots in reality making it impossible to dig deep. It is like digging deep in to a fiction novel, at some point it dead ends with the mind of the author.

They avoid discussions here about their theology not because they don't want to have conversation, but because they can't ...once the surface is scratched...they are lost.


Think about this...have you ever, and I mean ever seen OC, or DB or any other members here present a LDS position, lay out a premise, and follow it through? No, and you never will, their prophets and apostles couldn't do it either simply because their theology is nothing more than repeated talking points.

This is why theology is not important inside the church walls. It is why members sleep in class, in church, or google and shop in sacrament. ( a common discussion on LDS forums.)

As Christians we can not prove there is a God, yet we can present evidence based on our faith and interpretation of scripture. Technically so can a Mormon's. The difference is theirs is built on evidences of the imagination of JS. There is no natural proof that the BoM was real...every piece of it is up for debate in regards of it generating from real people in real places.

In other words, one can deny the existence of God, but they can not deny the existence of Jews and Christians in a ancient world that believed what they did. You can not deny Jerusalem, or the Nile, or Egypt, or Camels and Chariots complementing the narrative.

Mormonism has not of that...there are road block and dead end at every doctrine or narrative that strays form the Bible.

And yes I suppose it is wide, great analogy...but again very shallow...putting together a defense for LDS theology demands tearing down the question asker and starting endless rabbit trails, which in the end fall.

I thought this was also very insightful. And you sounded as if you spoke from experience.

Tell me, did you have cognitive dissonance while an active Mormon, and if so, did you need to ruthlessly suppress it? I have forgotten what made you leave the LDS church, but could you refresh my memory?
 
Thank you, Markk.

When I was a Mormon, I kept trying to get a strong testimony, but I couldn't believe that humans could become gods and goddesses; I didn't know that until I had been a member fot for about fourteen months. It always seemed pagan. I prayed like a Mormon for years following the rule of addressing prayers to the Father in the name of Christ. I kept hoping that obedience and time would strengthen my faith. I had purchased a nativity set the first Christmas after my marriage, but I put the angel in the trash because it had wings. I also had a porcelain angel that was made in Germany. I had bought it when I was 15. I hesitated about putting it in the trash, but I did discard it. I had a gold cross necklace that I wore for my senior picture, but I never wore it to church because I was told, "We don't wear crosses." Whe Mormons talked abot Easter, they emphasized the suffering in Gerhsemane and didn't mention the cross, but we sang There is a Green Hill Far Away.. I didn't understand why Mormons celebrated Christmas in December because they told me that Christ was born on April sixth. And why did they hang stockings for Christmas and pretend that Santa was coming? Why did Joseph Smith criticize the Trinity and call the Christian God a monster? Why was Mary called a Virgin? I kept the Word of Wisdom and paid a full tithe.

Yes, I had cognitive dissonance!
 
Last edited:
The fact that Mormons on here claim to be being attacked ("...we are here to defend our beliefs. If (these) weren't being attacked we wouldn't be here...") is not true. Perhaps in their minds that is how they see what is happening, but the truth is Mormons are here to promote and proselytize their false religion and in their claims of being attacked, ignore that Joe Smith attacked Christianity first, from the very beginning of his false religion. From his first vision(s), where he claimed he was told the Christian faith had apostatized, to his authoring the BoM and other claims such as the Book of Abraham, etc. So, I am here to testify that Mormon's are not being attacked for their "faith". Far from it. We, who are followers of the Way, are here defending Christianity from the lies that are pushed by the Mormons on this forum and the cult known as the Mormon religion.
 
Thank you, Markk.

When I was a Mormon, I kept trying to get a strong testimony, but I couldn't believe that humans could become gods and goddesses; I didn't know that until I had been a member fot for about fourteen months. It always seemed pagan. I prayed like a Mormon for years following the rule of addressing prayers to the Father in the name of Christ. I kept hoping that obedience and time would strengthen my faith. I had purchased a nativity set the first Christmas after my marriage, but I put the angel in the trash because it had wings. I also had a porcelain angel that was made in Germany. I had bought it when I was 15. I hesitated about putting it in the trash, but I did discard it. I had a gold cross necklace that I wore for my senior picture, but I never wore it to church because I was told, "We don't wear crosses." Whe Mormons talked abot Easter, they emphasized the suffering in Gerhsemane and didn't mention the cross, but we sang There is a Green Hill Far Away.. I didn't understand why Mormons celebrated Christmas in December because they told me that Christ was born on April sixth. And why did they hang stockings for Christmas and pretend that Santa was coming? Why did Joseph Smith criticize the Trinity and call the Christian God a monster? Why was Mary called a Virgin? I kept the Word of Wisdom and paid a full tithe.

Yes, I had cognitive dissonance!
Unless you never think about anything at all, and just go entirely on blind obedience, you have to have a certain amount of cognitive dissonance to stay in mormonism.
 
The fact that Mormons on here claim to be being attacked ("...we are here to defend our beliefs. If (these) weren't being attacked we wouldn't be here...") is not true. Perhaps in their minds that is how they see what is happening, but the truth is Mormons are here to promote and proselytize their false religion and in their claims of being attacked, ignore that Joe Smith attacked Christianity first, from the very beginning of his false religion. From his first vision(s), where he claimed he was told the Christian faith had apostatized, to his authoring the BoM and other claims such as the Book of Abraham, etc. So, I am here to testify that Mormon's are not being attacked for their "faith". Far from it. We, who are followers of the Way, are here defending Christianity from the lies that are pushed by the Mormons on this forum and the cult known as the Mormon religion.
According to the rules we are not allowed to attack Christian beliefs, so that bit is false on your part.
Second, I come here to consider the other side and why they feel their criticisms have merit.
Third, I know that conversion is not of me but the Holy Ghost but I can at least share how I came to belief In the Book of Mormon and JS.
 
Unless you never think about anything at all, and just go entirely on blind obedience, you have to have a certain amount of cognitive dissonance to stay in mormonism.
Truthfully, there is no conflict and I have ears to hear and eyes to see...

Matthew 13:9-16


9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
 
According to the rules we are not allowed to attack Christian beliefs,
First, I have read comments from you and other Mormons that violate those rules. But I am not a mod so I don't particularly care whether you follow the rules or not. What I care about is you are dead in Mormonism, your eternal soul is yoked, enslaved and still unforgiven.
so that bit is false on your part.
What I wrote is from the view of a follower of the Way, which isn't how you view it because you are a Mormon and believe what Joe Smith authored is true. Therefore, you wouldn't believe me if I told you the earth circled the sun if Joe Smith claimed otherwise.
Second, I come here to consider the other side and why they feel their criticisms have merit.
Ok.
Third, I know that conversion is not of me but the Holy Ghost but I can at least share how I came to belief In the Book of Mormon and JS.
And those are some of the lies (albeit you are not the author of those lies) I stated Mormons bring to this forum. Does that mean you are attacking our faith? Indeed. Every comment. Every Biblical reference. Everything you bring to this Christian website IS an attack on my faith, courtesy of Joe Smith and his novel, the BoM.
 
Last edited:
First, I have read comments from you and other Mormons that violate those rules. But I am not a mod so I don't particularly care whether you follow the rules or not. What I care about is you are dead in Mormonism, your eternal soul is yoked, enslaved and still unforgiven.
I'm happy you also know the rules and as you can see by your above text it seems you're already in attack mode, and it's not even noon yet.... and being unforgiven, well when did you become a God to be able to judge wether my repentance was credited to me or not?

What I wrote is from the view of a follower of the Way, which isn't how you view it because you are a Mormon and believe what Joe Smith authored is true. Therefore, you wouldn't believe me if I told you the earth circled the sun if Joe Smith claimed otherwise.
I like your humor! So far I don't find your criticisms have any merit... just my opinion though...


Ok.

And those are some of the lies (albeit you are not the author of those lies) I stated Mormons bring to this forum. Does that mean you are attacking our faith? Indeed. Every comment. Every Biblical reference. Everything you bring to this Christian website IS an attack on my faith, courtesy of Joe Smith and his novel, the BoM.
Maybe you can teach me how to respond to you without making it a attack on your faith! First of all name a lie, we can discuss it with out each other attacking, and this is not a Christian Forum, its the Mormon Forum, cults and groups, but thanks for the inclusion of us as Christians.
 
I'm happy you also know the rules and as you can see by your above text it seems you're already in attack mode, and it's not even noon yet.... and being unforgiven, well when did you become a God to be able to judge wether my repentance was credited to me or not?
There is no God but God! Something you are not able to comprehend because of the cult you belong to.

I like your humor! So far I don't find your criticisms have any merit... just my opinion though...
As I stated....
Maybe you can teach me how to respond to you without making it a attack on your faith!
You can't. It's not possible to be a Mormon and NOT attack my faith. It's just the reality of who you are Richard.
First of all name a lie,
Everything you believe about Mormonism and don't believe about Christianity is a lie Richard. This is just reality. And when you defend Mormonism, you are defending lies. You are not the author of those lies (we know who the author of lies is) but nonetheless, whatever you write concerning Mormonism is built on lies. Everything.
we can discuss it with out each other attacking, and this is not a Christian Forum, its the Mormon Forum, cults and groups, but thanks for the inclusion of us as Christians.
I stated this is a Christian WEBSITE and don't give me credit for something I never did. That too is a lie.
 
There is no God but God! Something you are not able to comprehend because of the cult you belong to.


As I stated....

You can't. It's not possible to be a Mormon and NOT attack my faith. It's just the reality of who you are Richard.

Everything you believe about Mormonism and don't believe about Christianity is a lie Richard. This is just reality. And when you defend Mormonism, you are defending lies. You are not the author of those lies (we know who the author of lies is) but nonetheless, whatever you write concerning Mormonism is built on lies. Everything.

I stated this is a Christian WEBSITE and don't give me credit for something I never did. That too is a lie.
So what can we talk about if we are nothing but liars... what is your aspiration (expectations) for being here? We can't talk about Christian doctrine, we seem according to you to be attacking and not defending our faith and obviously you are under the delusion we don't fathom who God is or what His only purpose is...

38 And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words.
39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.
 
So what can we talk about if we are nothing but liars...
The goal is to get you to see that what you believe is all lies Richard.
what is your aspiration (expectations) for being here?
See my comment above.
We can't talk about Christian doctrine, we seem according to you to be attacking
The thing is you don't talk about Christian doctrine, but theology wrapped in the skin of Mormonism. All you write, everything you claim and attest to, is wrapped in Mormonism, not Biblical Christianity.
and not defending our faith
This claim is subjectively based upon the belief of the Mormons here we are attacking your faith when the opposite is true. Mormonism attacks Biblical Christianity.
and obviously you are under the delusion we don't fathom who God is or what His only purpose is...
I am not deluded. You, and every Mormon alive, does not know God. You may know of the God of the Bible, but you reject Him for the false gods of Mormonism. But know this Richard, God would rejoice, all of heaven would rejoice, were you to leave Mormonism and embrace Jesus Christ. And you know I mean NOT the Jesus of the BoM, but the Jesus who is God, Lord and Savior as revealed only in the Bible.

bless you,

Ldb
 
Truthfully, there is no conflict and I have ears to hear and eyes to see...

Matthew 13:9-16


9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

People who physically hear and physically see don't always recognize God's truth. Physically blind and deaf persons can recognize truth if God wants that. Pharoah could see the Israelites but he was spiritually blind and deaf. People can claim to know truth yet teach false doctrines as Joseph Smith did.
 
Being LDS is both easy and difficult…and this thread is based on my 25 years or so on forums like this. It is easy being LDS in the sense that you are told what to believe, how to act, what to wear, and what to believe in regards to talking point theology. It is difficult in that, heart wise, you know it it a bunch of nonsense. You know as a Mormon you can not be a God, just like the Christian God.
I did have a response, but I think it would be more effective to simply repeat your statements in the pro-mormon stance so that you can recognize how bigoted your statements are.

"Being an ex-mormon is both easy and difficult…and this thread is based on my 25 years or so on forums like this. It is easy being an ex-mormon in the sense that you are told what to believe in regards to talking point theology on anti-mormon websites. It is difficult in that, heart wise, you know mormonism is actually true, but you never had the moral fiber to live up to the Church's standards."

There is no doubt in my mind, that the LDS posters here struggle in their hearts, and want so bad to make Mormonism work for them in their lives. That is why they are here. If they were complete and satisfied in their belief and faith they would not be here…I know this in that this very desire, to actually know that what I was taught as a Mormon was not as DB writes, “a bunch or hooey.” It’s a real heart thing and struggle, a ver personal struggle.

There is no doubt in my mind, that the ex-mormon posters here struggle in their hearts, and want so bad to make Mormonism not work for them in their lives. That is why they are here. If they were complete and satisfied in their belief and faith they would not be here…It’s a real heart thing and struggle, a very personal struggle.

And this is very important to understand if you have never been LDS… that LDS members here are not talking to us, they are talking to themselves…trying unwittingly to strengthen their testimony. You don’t see them trying to promote JS and BY…what you see is they are trying so hard, and bless their hearts, to bend and twist the Biblical Jesus into a warped and honestly perverted theology. Trying hard to somehow over ride the mess of JS and BY.

And this is very important to understand if you have ever been LDS… that ex-mormons here are not talking to us, they are talking to themselves…trying unwittingly to strengthen their personal beliefs. You see them trying to demote JS and BY…what you see is they are trying so hard, and bless their hearts, to bend and twist the "Mormon Jesus" into a warped and honestly perverted theology. Trying hard to somehow over ride the guilt of failing to live up to their covenants.

Can you see? This is complete projection, and anyone who is unable to see this blinded by their bias. I cant imagine any honest good-hearted Christian making such a broad and dehumanizing character attack.

Now, to address your points above.
It's actually those of telestial glory that never gain a personal understanding that rely on the arm of the flesh:

D&C76:99 For these are they who are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas.

As much as you'd like to portray that Mormons worship Church Leaders as if they were God himself speaking, and welcome "the philosophies of men mingled with scripture" (as long as it comes from one that holds the appropriate title) there are plenty of Church reasources that explain "a prophet is a prophet when acting as such." But what does that mean?

D&C 68:4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.

This means one actually needs to have companionship of the Holy Ghost to discern if a statement is inspired or not.

JS was a womanizer…there is absolutely no way to get around that if one does a honest study. Read section 132 of the D&C, and do a little research why it was written. Emma, Joseph’s wife wanted to have a fling with William Law, in that Joseph was intent on having Jane Law as either a wife or consort.
I suppose that's one perspective.
Here's another: https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Did_Joseph_Smith_offer_to_trade_Jane_Law_for_Emma_Smith_in_a_wife_swap_with_William_Law?

I am attacked frequently by my fellow Mormons that I personally don't believe polygamy was inspired, inasmuch as it violates certain principles.
Suppose Joseph Smith was deceived in that doctrine? Does that mean the book of Mormon is no longer true? No, it doesn't. If you spoke a truth today, but made a mistake tomorrow, does that mean what you spoke previously is now false? No. That's illogical. Yet, it's unsurprising that our critics would support the popularity of cancel culture.
The Church's ways were hedged up until they gave up polygamy. I could expound further, but this is all my own personal belief. It's really not that much a work around. King David, a man after God's own heart, was a polygamist and committed adultery (and essentially murder) himself. Hopefully people can learn from these examples to avoid to same pattern in their own lives.
BY was a bully, starting distillery’s and wine vineyards…working with an apostle in having a gambling house so it would sell his liquor…and stealing tithe money from the church to finance these types of things,
Thats not false. I know people who make a perfect correlation between BY and King Noah in the Book of Mormon. But hey look, everything that BY took sole-ownership for is pretty much absent from modern day Mormonism. Maybe that because we don't belong to the Church of Brigham Young of Latter-Day Saints.

You don’t see the LDS folks here promoting these truths,
No, just as you don't see Christians promote the theories of anti-Christian secular analysis of the Bible and it's origins. Why? Because everyone comes here to generally defend their side, and not represent their opposition.
but what you see is heart felt attempt to some how make the Biblical Jesus fit somehow into all of this confusion and madness.
I think it's as equally hard trying to explain a singular God of the Old Testament translate into 3-in-1 God of the New Testament. (Just Try and sell the Trinity to a Jew and find out why it's not a foregone conclusion.) Having said that, it's not impossible to make the connection. Well, if you looking to the philosophies of men as "core-doctrine", then maybe yeah, youll probably find it very difficult.

And that is why we, as Christian’s and ex-Mormons need to pray for these folks, to have the strength to test their faith and to be strong enough to look at it for what it is.
Much appreciated. I pray for you as well. I also think of much higher degree than you obviously believe about Mormons.
 
Last edited:
I did have a response, but I think it would be more effective to simply repeat your statements in the pro-mormon stance so that you can recognize how bigoted your statements are.

"Being an ex-mormon is both easy and difficult…and this thread is based on my 25 years or so on forums like this. It is easy being an ex-mormon in the sense that you are told what to believe in regards to talking point theology on anti-mormon websites. It is difficult in that, heart wise, you know mormonism is actually true, but you never had the moral fiber to live up to the Church's standards."



There is no doubt in my mind, that the ex-mormon posters here struggle in their hearts, and want so bad to make Mormonism not work for them in their lives. That is why they are here. If they were complete and satisfied in their belief and faith they would not be here…It’s a real heart thing and struggle, a very personal struggle.



And this is very important to understand if you have ever been LDS… that ex-mormons here are not talking to us, they are talking to themselves…trying unwittingly to strengthen their personal beliefs. You see them trying to demote JS and BY…what you see is they are trying so hard, and bless their hearts, to bend and twist the "Mormon Jesus" into a warped and honestly perverted theology. Trying hard to somehow over ride the guilt of failing to live up to their covenants.


Can you see? This is complete projection, and anyone who is unable to see this blinded by their bias. I cant imagine any honest good-hearted Christian making such a broad and dehumanizing character attack.

Now, to address your points above.
It's actually those of telestial glory that never gain a personal understanding that rely on the arm of the flesh:

D&C76:99 For these are they who are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas.

As much as you'd like to portray that Mormons worship Church Leaders as if they were God himself speaking, and welcome "the philosophies of men mingled with scripture" (as long as it comes from one that holds the appropriate title) there are plenty of Church reasources that explain "a prophet is a prophet when acting as such." But what does that mean?

D&C 68:4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.

This means one actually needs to have companionship of the Holy Ghost to discern if a statement is inspired or not.


I suppose that's one perspective.
Here's another: https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Did_Joseph_Smith_offer_to_trade_Jane_Law_for_Emma_Smith_in_a_wife_swap_with_William_Law?

I am attacked frequently by my fellow Mormons that I personally don't believe polygamy was inspired, inasmuch as it violates certain principles.
Suppose Joseph Smith was deceived in that doctrine? Does that mean the book of Mormon is no longer true? No, it doesn't. If you spoke a truth today, but made a mistake tomorrow, does that mean what you spoke previously is now false? No. That's illogical. Yet, it's unsurprising that our critics would support the popularity of cancel culture.
The Church's ways were hedged up until they gave up polygamy. I could expound further, but this is all my own personal belief. It's really not that much a work around. King David, a man after God's own heart, was a polygamist and committed adultery (and essentially murder) himself. Hopefully people can learn from these examples to avoid to same pattern in their own lives.

Thats not false. I know people who make a perfect correlation between BY and King Noah in the Book of Mormon. But hey look, everything that BY took sole-ownership for is pretty much absent from modern day Mormonism. Maybe that because we don't belong to the Church of Brigham Young of Latter-Day Saints.


No, just as you don't see Christians promote the theories of anti-Christian secular analysis of the Bible and it's origins. Why? Because everyone comes here to generally defend their side, and not represent their opposition.

I think it's as equally hard trying to explain a singular God of the Old Testament translate into 3-in-1 God of the New Testament. (Just Try and sell the Trinity to a Jew and find out why it's not a foregone conclusion.) Having said that, it's not impossible to make the connection. Well, if you looking to the philosophies of men as "core-doctrine", then maybe yeah, youll probably find it very difficult.


Much appreciated. I pray for you as well. I also think of much higher degree than you obviously believe about Mormons.
We’re here to warn others about false prophets. If you think we do that to make ourselves feel better, you’re wrong. I have a lot more fun and interesting things to do. This is rather unpleasant, actually. Except that I really do care about you. And I love Jesus, and want to share His words and incredible mercy and love for us.

You can’t follow Him and false prophets at the same time.
 
Back
Top