What Jesus actually accomplished on the cross enduring the Fathers wrath.

Carbon

Well-known member
There is a spirit of the age claiming Jesus did not endure the Fathers wrath while on the cross and that he was also not forsaken.
Which teaches his sacrifice was not a propitiation nor did it expiate sin. Simply, if our (the elect) Sin wasn’t imputed unto him, he died for nothing. He had no inherent sin of his own.

I believe this is a time for Christian’s to stand up for essential doctrines of the faith. And PSA, Christ enduring God’s wrath, in our place is one of them.
If we have no sacrificial lamb God’s wrath is not appeased. If we have no scapegoat, our sins remain on us. And Christ’s sacrifice was meaningless.

These are two major aspects of Christ's death on the cross. Propitiation and expiation.
The OT has many types and shadows of a propitiary sacrifice which means to remove or appease, satisfy God’s anger. And expiate, which means to remove the sin.

IMO, there is a spirit of the age at work which is sweeping many weary into error. Seem to me judgement is on the church.

There is a constant catechismal teaching from the world and it is very effective. Scripture teaches we can’t trust our own hearts. It’s wicked, we can’t even understand it.

Jer 17:9,
The heart is deceitful above all things,
and desperately sick;
who can understand it?

But God knows our hearts, and if we continue to turn to the world and our own wisdom, he will allow it for a time.
Jer 17:10,
“I the LORD search the heart
and test the mind,
to give every man according to his ways,
according to the fruit of his deeds.”

Brothers and sisters in Christ… we need to constantly remind each other of these Christian truths. As we need to be in the word, seeking truth and trusting God alone.
Psalm 139:23-24,
Search me, O God, and know my heart!
Try me and know my thoughts!
And see if there be any grievous way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting!
 

Kampioen

Well-known member
There is a spirit of the age claiming Jesus did not endure the Fathers wrath while on the cross and that he was also not forsaken.
Which teaches his sacrifice was not a propitiation nor did it expiate sin. Simply, if our (the elect) Sin wasn’t imputed unto him, he died for nothing. He had no inherent sin of his own.

I believe this is a time for Christian’s to stand up for essential doctrines of the faith. And PSA, Christ enduring God’s wrath, in our place is one of them.
If we have no sacrificial lamb God’s wrath is not appeased. If we have no scapegoat, our sins remain on us. And Christ’s sacrifice was meaningless.

These are two major aspects of Christ's death on the cross. Propitiation and expiation.
The OT has many types and shadows of a propitiary sacrifice which means to remove or appease, satisfy God’s anger. And expiate, which means to remove the sin.

IMO, there is a spirit of the age at work which is sweeping many weary into error. Seem to me judgement is on the church.

There is a constant catechismal teaching from the world and it is very effective. Scripture teaches we can’t trust our own hearts. It’s wicked, we can’t even understand it.

Jer 17:9,
The heart is deceitful above all things,
and desperately sick;
who can understand it?

But God knows our hearts, and if we continue to turn to the world and our own wisdom, he will allow it for a time.
Jer 17:10,
“I the LORD search the heart
and test the mind,
to give every man according to his ways,
according to the fruit of his deeds.”

Brothers and sisters in Christ… we need to constantly remind each other of these Christian truths. As we need to be in the word, seeking truth and trusting God alone.
Psalm 139:23-24,
Search me, O God, and know my heart!
Try me and know my thoughts!
And see if there be any grievous way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting!

I would say Jesus felt the consequences of the wrath that was directed at us. But He essentially took them bullet for us and all mankind, not that God was mad at Him. He prayed to God on our behalf while in the cross, evidencing that God was not mad at Him. God was in fact pleased with Him.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
There is a spirit of the age claiming Jesus did not endure the Fathers wrath while on the cross and that he was also not forsaken.
Which teaches his sacrifice was not a propitiation nor did it expiate sin. Simply, if our (the elect) Sin wasn’t imputed unto him, he died for nothing. He had no inherent sin of his own.

I believe this is a time for Christian’s to stand up for essential doctrines of the faith. And PSA, Christ enduring God’s wrath, in our place is one of them.
If we have no sacrificial lamb God’s wrath is not appeased. If we have no scapegoat, our sins remain on us. And Christ’s sacrifice was meaningless.

These are two major aspects of Christ's death on the cross. Propitiation and expiation.
The OT has many types and shadows of a propitiary sacrifice which means to remove or appease, satisfy God’s anger. And expiate, which means to remove the sin.

IMO, there is a spirit of the age at work which is sweeping many weary into error. Seem to me judgement is on the church.

There is a constant catechismal teaching from the world and it is very effective. Scripture teaches we can’t trust our own hearts. It’s wicked, we can’t even understand it.

Jer 17:9,
The heart is deceitful above all things,
and desperately sick;
who can understand it?

But God knows our hearts, and if we continue to turn to the world and our own wisdom, he will allow it for a time.
Jer 17:10,
“I the LORD search the heart
and test the mind,
to give every man according to his ways,
according to the fruit of his deeds.”

Brothers and sisters in Christ… we need to constantly remind each other of these Christian truths. As we need to be in the word, seeking truth and trusting God alone.
Psalm 139:23-24,
Search me, O God, and know my heart!
Try me and know my thoughts!
And see if there be any grievous way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting!
Don’t be deceived brothers and sisters. Your sins have been taken off you and put on Christ and God’s wrath has been propitiated because his punishment/chastisement is what brings us peace with God.
 

Kampioen

Well-known member
Don’t be deceived brothers and sisters. Your sins have been taken off you and put on Christ and God’s wrath has been propitiated because his punishment/chastisement is what brings us peace with God.

This is the case. But He suffered the effects of wrath directed at us because He took the bullet for us, and God was appeased. Jesus was never a sinner even temporarily. Jesus was right with God all along on the cross.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
This is the case. But He suffered the effects of wrath directed at us because He took the bullet for us, and God was appeased. Jesus was never a sinner even temporarily. Jesus was right with God all along on the cross.
Are you saying the bullet he took for us named Wrath?

If not, Carbon may have more questions...
 

Kampioen

Well-known member
Are you saying the bullet he took for us named Wrath?

If not, Carbon may have more questions...

It's like God wrathfully fired a bullet at us but Jesus came and got in the way. The wrath was not at us so God was never mad at Jesus.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
This is the case. But He suffered the effects of wrath directed at us because He took the bullet for us, and God was appeased. Jesus was never a sinner even temporarily. Jesus was right with God all along on the cross.
I agree, Jesus is and is always sinless and holy. He had to be a perfect and spotless lamb.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
There is a spirit of the age claiming Jesus did not endure the Fathers wrath while on the cross and that he was also not forsaken.
Which teaches his sacrifice was not a propitiation nor did it expiate sin. Simply, if our (the elect) Sin wasn’t imputed unto him, he died for nothing. He had no inherent sin of his own.

I believe this is a time for Christian’s to stand up for essential doctrines of the faith. And PSA, Christ enduring God’s wrath, in our place is one of them.
If we have no sacrificial lamb God’s wrath is not appeased. If we have no scapegoat, our sins remain on us. And Christ’s sacrifice was meaningless.

These are two major aspects of Christ's death on the cross. Propitiation and expiation.
The OT has many types and shadows of a propitiary sacrifice which means to remove or appease, satisfy God’s anger. And expiate, which means to remove the sin.

IMO, there is a spirit of the age at work which is sweeping many weary into error. Seem to me judgement is on the church.

There is a constant catechismal teaching from the world and it is very effective. Scripture teaches we can’t trust our own hearts. It’s wicked, we can’t even understand it.

Jer 17:9,
The heart is deceitful above all things,
and desperately sick;
who can understand it?

But God knows our hearts, and if we continue to turn to the world and our own wisdom, he will allow it for a time.
Jer 17:10,
“I the LORD search the heart
and test the mind,
to give every man according to his ways,
according to the fruit of his deeds.”

Brothers and sisters in Christ… we need to constantly remind each other of these Christian truths. As we need to be in the word, seeking truth and trusting God alone.
Psalm 139:23-24,
Search me, O God, and know my heart!
Try me and know my thoughts!
And see if there be any grievous way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting!
Christ cannot judge between the living and the dead unless God's wrath was poured into his cup. That's the cup he has to pour out on the damned.
 

HealTheLand

Active member
Don’t be deceived brothers and sisters. Your sins have been taken off you and put on Christ and God’s wrath has been propitiated because his punishment/chastisement is what brings us peace with God.


"And greater is one Living inside of Me" ... "than He who is living -- In the World..." ?


 
Last edited:

shnarkle

Well-known member
Sorry, I’m not following. Please explain?

Thanks 🙂
God pours out his wrath on Christ as a propitiation for sin. Christ pays the penalty for sin, but that doesn't absolve the damned.

If you look at the two goats presented, one is presented for slaughter (symbolizing Christ). The high priest then ascends the stairs of the alter (again symbolizing Christ as our high priest presenting his blood as an offering for sin). He then descends and places those same sins upon the head of Azazzel, the scapegoat who is the only one who is ultimately responsible for bringing sin into the world. Placing his hands upon the head of Azazzel is equivalent to pouring out God's wrath upon him.

You didn't think Satan would get off with a slap on the wrist for what he's done did you? All that misery and suffering is then placed upon his head and he's sent to his reward which is desolation.

If there is no scapegoat, then God's wrath doesn't remain upon us, but upon Christ. Only Christ as our high priest can place that wrath upon Satan.

The good news really isn't about us at all, but Christ for whom we were created.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
God pours out his wrath on Christ as a propitiation for sin. Christ pays the penalty for sin, but that doesn't absolve the damned.
Okay.
If you look at the two goats presented, one is presented for slaughter (symbolizing Christ). The high priest then ascends the stairs of the alter (again symbolizing Christ as our high priest presenting his blood as an offering for sin). He then descends and places those same sins upon the head of Azazzel, the scapegoat who is the only one who is ultimately responsible for bringing sin into the world. Placing his hands upon the head of Azazzel is equivalent to pouring out God's wrath upon him.
Interesting. I may not agree but it’s refreshing seeing someone thinking and reasoning things. 🙂
You didn't think Satan would get off with a slap on the wrist for what he's done did you? All that misery and suffering is then placed upon his head and he's sent to his reward which is desolation.

If there is no scapegoat, then God's wrath doesn't remain upon us, but upon Christ. Only Christ as our high priest can place that wrath upon Satan.
We disagree here. Expiation is removing our sin and placing it on Christ. Imputation.
The good news really isn't about us at all, but Christ for whom we were created.
 
Top