What man knoweth?

[ReverendRV]

Who art thou O man, that repliest against God's decrees? Unless, of course, you're an inconsistent Calvinist.

Why did you say that?

 

[PeanutGallery]

Why did you say that?

Does not God decree all things that come to pass? If so, why is @preacher4truth upset because God decreed what I say or not say.

 

[Carbon]

AND according to Eph 2:8,9 even the FAITH to be born again has to be GIFTED by God.

Well then why argue against scripture Bob?
You would rather have it that you can make a decision and decide to have faith, is that it?

Why is it so difficult for you to believe God?
His word says, you are saved by grace. Do you understand grace? I don’t believe anyone can completely grasp it. But it means you have nothing to do with it, and you don’t deserve it it.
I know you will say, that’s right I don’t, but God brought you to the place that you can contribute, by expressing your free will and making yourself have faith.
Even though Paul writes in Eph 2, it’s not of yourself, you believe it is of yourself.

It seems you cannot stand the fact that God regenerated you, the new man in Christ had the enmity removed through Christ and restored us spiritually, the new man possesses saving faith. That’s how it’s not of yourself Bob. You were spiritually dead and a slave of Satan.

When you heard the gospel, at the appointed time, you believed, not because you chose to, but because you were able to, because as Jesus said, you must be born again to see the kingdom. So really, you found yourself believing (though you thought it was your decision) . You believed in your heart (your new heart), and by your mouth, confessed Christ.

You should praise God for all your worth because He loved you and chose you before the foundation of the world. Be thankful it wasn’t your choice, because like me, you would have never chosen Him.

If you truly are God’s child, that’s how it is.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Well then why argue against scripture Bob?

I don't. The thing I argue about is "INTERPRTATIONS OF SCRIPTURE" - i.e. "Theology". You appear to mistake your "Theological Systematic" for God's WORD.

You would rather have it that you can make a decision and decide to have faith, is that it?

Nope, because that would be impossible - NOBODY comes with being drawn, and NOBODY has faith EXCEPT as it's Gifted by God (Rom 10:17) - FAITH has to have two attributes, NEITHER of which can be generated by a human.

BIBLICAL FAITH must possess SUBSTANCE, and it must be an EVIDENCE if what's not seen. "Belief" (mental assent) HAS NO SUBSTANCE, and isn't an EVIDENCE of anything.

Why is it so difficult for you to believe God?

I've got no problem believing GOD. His WORD to me is beyond doubt.

His word says, you are saved by grace. Do you understand grace?

Of course - unmerited favor - grace is why we all weren't vaporized the instant we SINNED, and fell short. HE blessed us with survival - time to Call on Him in FAITH that HE Gifts. (FAITH is always gifted / revelatory).

I don’t believe anyone can completely grasp it. But it means you have nothing to do with it, and you don’t deserve it it.

What part of "Unmerited favor" didn't you get??

Even though Paul writes in Eph 2, it’s not of yourself, you believe it is of yourself.

What gave you that silly idea???

It seems you cannot stand the fact that God regenerated you, the new man in Christ had the enmity removed through Christ and restored us spiritually, the new man possesses saving faith. That’s how it’s not of yourself Bob. You were spiritually dead and a slave of Satan.

I don't know about religious "Buzz words" (like "regeneration" which changes its meaning according to Deniminational paradigm).

What I DO KNOW is that HE convicted me of my SIN, and when I surrendered (which was VERY difficult) repented (as best as I could), and called out to Him to save me, He did.

I was cleansed, and Born Again of the Holy Spirit, and HE was the one who did all the work, and I was the one who became clean and whole. and as frosting on the cake, He instantly ELIMINATED a 6 year, 3-pack a day smoking habit as though it has never existed - no withdrawal - just GONE. (more to that story).

When you heard the gospel, at the appointed time, you believed,

Not really, I "Believed" (gave mental assent) to the "Gospel" from very early in my life, and watched God MOVE because I asked Him to in prayer.

I'd heard the Gospel many times, and been CONVICTED of my SIN, but never carried through into salvation. What I didn't have was "FAITH" (as defined at Heb 11:1) in Jesus' SIN OFFERING to cleanse, and change me.

You believed in your heart

Another Biblical way of describing faith - re: Mark 11:23 - "Heart Belief - nothing doubting" based on Rom 10:17 God's Word to me.

(your new heart)

Another religious "Buzz-word". Just a "religious" way of saying that I was indwelled by the Holy Spirit, and changed by HIM when I was BORN AGAIN.

, and by your mouth, confessed Christ.

Cried (literally) out to Him, and asked Him to save me - and then everything changed.

You should praise God for all your worth because He loved you and chose you before the foundation of the world. Be thankful it wasn’t your choice, because like me, you would have never chosen Him.

That's certainly true.

 

[Manfred]

Either God's word is true, or man's doctrine is true.

I give glory to God for revealing Christ to me through his true inspired word.
I did not realize you wanted me to say those words; maybe, God decreed me not to know what you wanted me to say.

I asked specifically how you were able to use self will to get out from under the false teachings of the RCC

And you could not give God the glory for bringing you out.
Now you say you give Him the glory for revealing truth to you. Do you also give Him glory for your choices in this regard?

 

[PeanutGallery]

I asked specifically how you were able to use self will to get out from under the false teachings of the RCC

I've checked all 92 posts; I have not found "self will", other than this post.

And you could not give God the glory for bringing you out.

I give glory to God for bringing me out.

Now you say you give Him the glory for revealing truth to you.

I give God glory for revealing the truth to me.

Do you also give Him glory for your choices in this regard?

I give glory to God for the ability given to me to choose life or death, to choose whom I will serve.

 

[Theo1689]

His doctrine teaches this. That is why he is not responding and agreeing with you. He desires the same thing that he believes God desires for the damned. Their destruction and endless suffering.

Why don't you stop misrepresenting what other people "teach"?
I notice that one of your earlier posts in this exchange was deleted.
Why not learn the lesson?

I'm appealing to your senses. Your discernment. You are offended at what I wrote because you should be.

Yes, it's offensive for you to misrepresent what others believe.

He is not because he believes just that.

You have a habit of misrepresenting what other people believe.

 

[Theo1689]

I haven't. He can respond and correct me. It is rather clear that is what YOU believe as well.

No, it is not up to us to keep correcting you every time you misrepresent what we believe. It is up to you (or at least any Christians who are ACTUALLY honest) to not presume to speak for what others believe in the first place.

Do you really think I'm obligated to respond to you and correct you a thousand times just because you keep misrepresenting us? I have better things to do with my time.

So either you force us to correct you (in which case you claim we're wrong, and you refuse to accept correction), or else we don't bother responding, and you claim that PROVES you were being accurate.
I honestly don't know how you can live with yourself with such a lack of ethics.

Please feel free to correct me. Please be specific about how I am wrong. Just saying "you misrepresent me" doesn't work.

No, that's not how it works.
It is NOT your place to make claims about what others believe.
That's why CARM requires you provide a linked quote when responding to someone, as otherwise it opens the door for misrepresentation. And that's probably precisely why your post was deleted.

If you don't say things starting with, "He believes..." in the FIRST place, then we wouldn't have to waste time "correcting" you.

 

[Carbon]

His doctrine teaches this. That is why he is not responding and agreeing with you. He desires the same thing that he believes God desires for the damned. Their destruction and endless suffering.

Friend, you really have no clue. Why should I answer your every post? Especially with these accusations.

I'm appealing to your senses. Your discernment. You are offended at what I wrote because you should be. He is not because he believes just that.

What you post is predictable and expected.
you put yourself on a pedestal, and speak of your great learning, then you post junk like this and expect me to reply?

I also have discussed and debated with many people, many very intelligent, much more than I. But your an amateur. You really need to do some research into what people actually believe. Perhaps then you would present stuff that’s actually worth replying to.

 

[Carbon]

Why don't you stop misrepresenting what other people "teach"?

Because he would have no argument otherwise.

I notice that one of your earlier posts in this exchange was deleted.
Why not learn the lesson?

Seems he tried to get rid of it in time. But someone replied to it. Oops.

Yes, it's offensive for you to misrepresent what others believe.

You have a habit of misrepresenting what other people believe.

Yes, and these aren’t worth wasting my time on.

 

[Carbon]

You could just say.....

No. I don't agree with God's punishment of people predetermined to suffer everlasting torment. .

You will not do that because you can't say that. Your 5 Point Calvinist doctrine teaches this. You agree with the doctrine.

😎

 

[Carbon]

You could just say.....

No. I don't agree with God's punishment of people predetermined to suffer everlasting torment. .

You will not do that because you can't say that. Your 5 Point Calvinist doctrine teaches this. You agree with the doctrine.

You have been corrected. Why don’t you accept correction.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Either God's word is true, or man's doctrine is true.

OR Both are true if they agree.

If one is wrong, it'll be Man's Theology.

 

[PeanutGallery]

OR Both are true if they agree.

If one is wrong, it'll be Man's Theology.

Yep, Good catch!

 

[Carbon]

You leaving out a large portion of information.

1. It is an astonishingly good thing that the Gospel is declared to all men, in the tongues of men, by Holy Spirit filled preachers with great "plainness of speech."

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

The Holy Spirit imparts knowledge to the preacher, which in turn, preaches the Gospel to natural men in very simple terms they can understand.

2. Deep Spiritual knowledge is NOT REQUIRED to accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ. In fact, if you continue on in what Paul was telling those at Corinth, Paul clearly said they were still carnal.

Do you see that? Still CARNAL.... Yet, they were newly born in Christ.

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.


In review, you over stating your position. Even new born babies in Christ are CARNAL. Fleshly. The Gospel is preached by mature members of the body of Christ in terms that the natural/carnal men can discern.

There. No need to feel special about yourself that God gave you something He hasn't offered to everyone else. He has. Through the Gospel.

This is he who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree. If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater, for this is the testimony of God that he has borne concerning his Son. Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 1 John 5

 

[Carbon]

It is a good thing to quote Scripture. It is a bad thing to always throw them at someone else without first considering how they apply to the quoter. I preach Jesus Christ first in all things. You preach yourself.

And how do you get that from my post?
Or are you just babbling on?

 

[Carbon]

Sure Calvinists do. Calvinists love to quite Charles.

" Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox’s gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again.
Spurgeon

 

[Carbon]

It is a good thing to quote Scripture. It is a bad thing to always throw them at someone else without first considering how they apply to the quoter. I preach Jesus Christ first in all things. You preach yourself.

Do you not understand the passage?

 

[Theo1689]

It is a good thing to quote Scripture. It is a bad thing to always throw them at someone else without first considering how they apply to the quoter. I preach Jesus Christ first in all things. You preach yourself.

We preach nothing but Jesus Christ, and that there is nothing in us to warrant our salvation. Yet you falsely claim, "[we] preach [our]self".

You claim that it was your great decision to "accept Christ", yet you falsely claim you "preach Jesus Christ in all things".

 

[Theo1689]

Calvinists generally pretend they're the smart people on the room. It doesn't matter if I say I understand it or not to you.

Anti-Calvinists generally pretend they're the smart people on [sic] the room. It doesn't matter if I say I understand it or not to you.