What man knoweth?

Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
praise_yeshua said:
No. I don't agree with God's punishment of people predetermined to suffer everlasting torment. .
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Why should anyone care about your personal opinion?

praise_yeshua said:
You will not do that because you can't say that. Your 5 Point Calvinist doctrine teaches this. You agree with the doctrine.
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Sorry, but your excuse doesn't fly.
I was a rabid anti-Calvinist until SCRIPTURE convinced me that "Calvinist doctrine" is God's truth. GOD convinced me that it was true.
 
Carbon

Carbon

Well-known member
Carbon said:
Sure it matters. And I do not consider myself very smart.
But if you would be interested we can go over the passage together?
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@praise_yeshua
I think it’s pretty plain to see in the passage that, the Holy Spirit is the one who saves us, He is the only one fitting and sufficient to do it, being He is the Spirit of truth.

these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 1 Cor 2
 
Carbon

Carbon

Well-known member
Carbon said:
I think it’s pretty plain to see in the passage that, the Holy Spirit is the one who saves us, He is the only one fitting and sufficient to do it, being He is the Spirit of truth.

these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 1 Cor 2
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@praise_yeshua

The Holy Spirit, knows all the secret things of God because He is God. The Spirit also reveals them to whom He pleases.
No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known. John 1:18.
Agree so far?

Since man can only know the secrets of man, only the Holy Spirit can do it. Man cannot know Gods secret thoughts, but only His own Spirit. And the Spirit alone reveals to man what is needed for their salvation.

Yes, man shares the gospel and the Holy Spirit uses the gospel in His work of salvation. Man can hear it, but unless the Spirit reveals it to man, it just falls at the wayside.

Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. 1 Cor 2

you see, man can only understand worldly things, he cannot understand spiritual things. But the Spirit reveals these things to us, He is the only teacher of spiritual things.
 
Carbon

Carbon

Well-known member
@praise_yeshua

these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 1 Cor 2

So one has to be born of the Spirit (regeneration) to understand the things of the Spirit.

Do you see another way in scripture?
If so, please share it.
 
Carbon

Carbon

Well-known member
Dizerner said:
There is no doctrine that "slays" the pride of man.
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Where does it say doctrine? Huh, I read the word “system”
Dizerner said:
What an arrogant thought—that man just needs to "learn" some information and he will suddenly be humble. Only the grace of God slays the pride of man, not doctrinal knowledge which "puffs up."
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If you understood the Bible you would agree with
Greg Bahnsen
 
Carbon

Carbon

Well-known member
Dizerner said:
There is no doctrine that "slays" the pride of man. What an arrogant thought—that man just needs to "learn" some information and he will suddenly be humble. Only the grace of God slays the pride of man, not doctrinal knowledge which "puffs up."
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It puffed you up to believing you can use your free will to make yourself believe.
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
praise_yeshua said:
No I don't. At every level in our interactions you've pressed me to provide proof that I'm educated to your specifications.

I... don't care one thing about where your information came from. It matters only if it is true.
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And you always think that YOUR understanding is the one that's true, because YOU think you're smarter than all the Calvinists here.

Like I said.
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
praise_yeshua said:
Calvinism's pride is revealed in their preaching of God's choice in them while excluding others that are just like them.
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Again, you MISREPRESENT Calvinism, and you refuse to accept correction.
Calvinists do NOT "exclude" anyone. There is NOBODY we can look at and say, "you are not one of the elect". We simply do not KNOW who the elect are, and we don't pretend to.

And if there are any who are "excluded" from election, it is not Calvinists who excluded them, it was GOD. And "excluding" is a misnomer, as it erroneously implies that they have some right to be "elected", which nobody does.

And Calvinists know more than anyone else that we have no "right" or "expectation" to be elected, it is a gift of GRACE. So there is no "pride" on our part.

Indeed, when I first realized that Calvinism was true, it humbled me more than I can express.

So you have to stop going around falsely accusing others of "pride".
It's prideful on YOUR part, and you're making claims that you have NO WAY of possibly knowing.
 
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Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
praise_yeshua said:
I believe what the Scriptures teach. I believe men lie. I've come to this conclusion by reading the Scriptures. Words from smarter men than myself. I believe them. I don't believe you.
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So when we read the Scriptures, you falsely accuse us of "thinking ourselves smarter".

But when YOU read the Scriptures, and you ALWAYS consider yourself right in EVERYTHING you preach, then you are allegedly NOT "thinking yourself smarter".

I think everyone can see the blatant double standard you're engaging in.
Why? Because you want to engage in petty name-calling instead of exegesis.
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
praise_yeshua said:
You claim God chose you, you're REPLACING God's choice in Jesus Christ with yourselves.
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This is what I don't understand about trolls.

They object to beliefs that someone is "replacing God's choice in Jesus Christ with yourselves".

And so we say, "We DON'T believe that! Nobody believes God hasn't chosen Jesus Christ. We're not 'replacing' anything."

And the RATIONAL response should be, "Oh, you don't believe that? I'm glad. So that's one more belief we have in common.'

But no, they don't respond that way. They don't want agreement, they only want ARGUMENT, even when there's no difference of opinion. So they'll continue to FALSELY claim we believe something we don't, simply to have something to argue against.

Sad.
 
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